What is ...faith ?

[Boaz]

You can check your own preferred translation and I encourage it . I generally reference the KJV out of laziness because I grew up with it . LOL it is easier for me to quote and deal with BUT that is just me .

Accounts of usage can vary as to how many time the word ..faith is used but average would be bout 240 times in the NEW Testament . Some stats credit believe and belief as the word 'faith', I see the point but discounted them .

How do you interpret the word...faith...in scripture ?
Do we need ...Faith ?
What is ...Faith to you ?
Does GOD require our ...Faith ?
Need not we have ...Faith

May seem complicated but really not . Interpretation is up to us to a great extent . GOD leads through his word and individual revelation through that word is given Can be different understanding through thought and prayer .

So go where you want to with ...Faith . Personally without detail I believe we must have ...Faith . But heck that's just me .

SO ! Faith ? What do you think ?

[dverna]

It is not possible to prove God. It requires faith.

Without faith, you cannot believe in God, or most of the Bible.

Don Verna

[Blackwater]

Faith is simply believing what we sense, but cannot fully, completely know in finite terms. It surpasses the realm of this world and tunes into the great beyond. That's what it means to me. It also helps to know that even when we don't know what the outcome will be, that no matter how it ends, definitively, we'll be OK. It's an assurance of things we cannot "know" in the existential sense.

[GhostHawk]

Faith is that thing in our mind that even though our senses says we are standing on the edge of a cliff. We believe enough, have enough faith, that we take that jump.

We do not know who is going to catch us or how, but we believe that we will be caught unharmed.

Funny thing is early on in my Marriage my wife descibed our love as a leap of fath like that.
"Until you can turn loose, just jump, and trust that our love will carry you. You will never be able to fully commit.

Well she talked me through it, and I did, and all of a sudden I was "free floating", not falling, not crashing. Floating unsupported by anything visible or tangible.

And then a month later I helped her make that same jump. Once we were both there, there were no more worry's, issues or problems. If something came up we talked and worked it out.

I totally believe this is why so many marriages fail today. People simple do not know how to make that jump to total commitment. Without that solid base the first big problem starts the cracks and it falls apart.

My "faith" is part learned from family, watching how my parents and grandparents dealt with religion, neighbors, problems, and death. Part time spent reading the bible.

An lot of it seems like a huge leap of faith. Where do you find that faith? Call on the Lord. Ask for the Holy Spirit to enter into you, to live in your heart. Do your best to live as the Lord would have us live. Love each other, try to live up to the 10 commandments. Try to be a light unto the world.

I may not be a simple anything, much less a country boy. Although I am one, at least in part.
I know very very little for certain sure.

I do know that the Lord has reached out and touched my life many times over the years.
I used to say that I had a survival sixth sense. If I was about to do something that could kill me.
I would get a warning.

I have no proof, but I suspect the Lord may have had a finger in there.
I do not know what his plan is for me, but he seems to have one. I have faith in that.

He is the true friend who has never hurt me, never lied, never cheated, never stole from me.
He has never let me down, although I have let him down again and again.

Yet he keeps trying. Well so do I.

Until that day comes when I pass through death's door, or the last trump is sounded and we all meet him in the air.

Until then I have faith. A deep seated conviction beyond words that I have a part to play. A job to do. That he exists, that his son did die on the cross for our sins. That he will come again to judge the living and the dead.

Until that day I will keep trying.

[Boaz]

Thank you GhostHawk . A good personal description of faith that could double as testifying . Thank you brother .

[1johnlb]

Faith is the substance (physically tangible ) of things hoped for, the evidence ( signs) of things not seen. Heb11

Faith is believing the written word of God over every carnal sense, person religious or not. Over every circumstance, Dr report, lawyer, judge, death or any other thing that exalts itself over the word of God.

Faith is what the thief had when he asked Jesus to forgive him and to be in His kingdom.

Faith is what made Paul and Silus sing in the midnight hour jail house band.

Faith is what makes you rise above instead of being beneath.

I believe we can have different levels of faith, some have great faith and some not so great. For it's written, He has given us a measure of faith. This measure is what brings us unto salvation.

I also believe faith is a spirit. For faith comes by hearing and hearing of the word of God. Do you need more faith? Then open the word and read, out loud. Nobody can make you believe like you can.

On the same note, faith comes by hearing and hearing of the Rhema word of God.

Faith is what moves you out of ordinary into extraordinary.

But hear comes the hard part faith flows from the heart not the mind. This is why He says guard the heart for out of it flows the issues of life. It's ok to have issues but keep them out of your heart and don't let your mind control your heart. The mind will always raise doubt, because it figuring and trying to make sense of every situation. The kingdom doesn't operate by intellect but by love, which flows from the heart. At least real love does.

[GhostHawk]

Well said.

[Boaz]

Thank you John .

[1johnlb]

Faith rooted in the mind, reaches for the pistol in a situation.

Faith rooted in the heart, calls on God in a situation.

Both effective but only 1 is the will of God and commands the supernatural.

Blessed are the pure at heart for they shall see God move in their situation

[jmort]

The Bible tells us what Faith is, as noted. The substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not seen. Every Believer is given a measure of Faith. Faith can grow if the Believer exercises their Faith. Most churches and denominations are afraid of faith due to the Full Gospel "Faith Message"
The Bible tells us that without Faith it is impossible to please God. After Love it is the second most important attribute of a Christian life. But sadly most are afraid of Faith. Jesus loved to meet people with Strong Faith, absolutely loved it. An illuminating Bible passage is where Jesus was unable to do any mighty work due to the lack of Faith of those present. Jesus marveled at the man who said, no need to come to my house, just say the Word and my servent will be healed. Jesus hated a lack of Faith. Sad that the Church is afraid of Faith. God and Jesus love Faith. Grow you Faith and please God and Jesus. Do not be afraid.

[USMC87]

Faith given by God is all I can add.

[Boaz]

Matthew 17;14-20

14 And when they were come to the multitude, there came to him a certain man, kneeling down to him, and saying,15 Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is lunatick, and sore vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water.16 And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him.17 Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.18 And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

[jmort]

Abraham The Father of Faith
His Faith had to grow. Had he not run down to the tent of the younger woman doubting God and had faith that Sarah was to be the Mother of many nations he may. not have been stuck with the prospect of killing his own son with his own hands. Abraham had to grow in faith. He proved his Faith to God in a profound way that is confounding to a modern reader.

[Boaz]

I agree jmort . The more we see of his work , the more we understand him through his word the stronger our faith becomes . It is reflected in our mind and in our lives .

[jmort]

Great thread
Thank You

[Boaz]

The Bible tells us what Faith is, as noted. The substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not seen. Every Believer is given a measure of Faith. Faith can grow if the Believer exercises their Faith. Most churches and denominations are afraid of faith due to the Full Gospel "Faith Message"
The Bible tells us that without Faith it is impossible to please God. After Love it is the second most important attribute of a Christian life. But sadly most are afraid of Faith. Jesus loved to meet people with Strong Faith, absolutely loved it. An illuminating Bible passage is where Jesus was unable to do any mighty work due to the lack of Faith of those present. Jesus marveled at the man who said, no need to come to my house, just say the Word and my servent will be healed. Jesus hated a lack of Faith. Sad that the Church is afraid of Faith. God and Jesus love Faith. Grow you Faith and please God and Jesus. Do not be afraid.

I had started to post on this comment when you put it up but got sidetracked . Excellent example !

[Boaz]

I have heard many say that faith or belief (interchangeable in this case) is unnecessary . That if you live a good life and try to do what is 'right' GOD will accept or accommodate you with his offer of salvation . Is this correct ?

[GhostHawk]

I used to believe that Boaz, I no longer do so.

At times I wonder if that is why the Lord reached out to me as strongly as he has.
He did not want to see me fall into that trap.

IF you believe the bible, and I have no reason to doubt it.

Then you must believe Jesus when he says in John 14, 6

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

To me that is the final and ultimate answer on that question.

[Boaz]

REVELATION 2

Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
2 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-2-2/)I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
3 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-2-3/)And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
4 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-2-4/)Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
5 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-2-5/)Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
6 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-2-6/)But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
7 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-2-7/)He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
8 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-2-8/)And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
9 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-2-9/)I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
10 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-2-10/)Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
11 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-2-11/)He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
12 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-2-12/)And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;
13 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-2-13/)I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
14 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-2-14/)But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
15 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-2-15/)So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.
16 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-2-16/)Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
17 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-2-17/)He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
18 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-2-18/)And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;
19 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-2-19/)I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.
20 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-2-20/)Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
21 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-2-21/)And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
22 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-2-22/)Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
23 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-2-23/)And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
24 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-2-24/)But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
25 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-2-25/)But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
26 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-2-26/)And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-2-27/)And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
28 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-2-28/)And I will give him the morning star.
29 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Revelation-2-29/)He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

[Boaz]

Hebrews 11;1

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

[shooter93]

Without ruffling any feathers when I discuss religion with others....and I mean discuss not argue.....I always said I don't need faith because I have no doubts. That is not meant to demean anyone or their views it's just mine. Midway in my life God was "proven" to me. I don't like the word because I always knew but I crossed over and came back. I don't believe there is such a thing as an atheist....agnostic yes ....atheist no. You get in dire straits or a life or death situation I KNOW who you will call on. What is most interesting to me as since I studied the historical facets of my religion and can explain and show a great deal of proof about it and the life of Christ many still don't grasp it. The more ancient cities and scrolls we find and I believe there are tons more to be found there may be some discrepancies the proof becomes more abundant. I believe some day Science will prove God's existence......if he allows it.

[1johnlb]

Is there any middle ground, either you have faith or you don't (doubt). I'm not sure where one might draw the line. Other than just don't care.
I don't think it was ever meant for man to prove God, He does that. Even when the Red Sea parted, Phaoro kept chasing. The book of John says, He gives us His Spirit as a guarantee. We all have a sprit, but it's His Sprit that witnesses to us and let's us know we're His. IF we let Him.

[Blackwater]

I have heard many say that faith or belief (interchangeable in this case) is unnecessary . That if you live a good life and try to do what is 'right' GOD will accept or accommodate you with his offer of salvation . Is this correct ?

You ask a good and common and very vexing question. I've quit worrying about it. The way so many people use words in subjective ways, and say one thing while meaning another, it's really a "trick question" that can't really be answered effectively or definitively. And it does NOT depend on "how we look at it."

What it DOES depend on his how God looks at it, and we have some clues to how He does that, but I'm not brave (daft?) enough to claim to know all there is about the mind of God, so .... I just leave such questions up to Him, and take what I DO have, "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved," and try to live up to that and his other good advice.

When I can do those minimal things, maybe then I'll try to address myself to such presently unanswerable questions. There are so many other more beneficial places to put my thoughts and considerations, I just pretty much had to let that one go. And ya' know what? I'm glad I did. Usually, all it does is offer good Christians a seed for an argument, and neither side of the issue ever seems to benefit from that. So it took me a long time, but I learned my lesson.

Lots of questions asked are "bait" put there by Satan to get us believers to argue and split one from another. He's a sly rascal! I'm getting slowly better at detecting his work from the Lord's questions. The Lord never asks unanswerable questions. Satan often does. Just part of his wiles to keep us from being more effective in what we've been charged to do, and it's harder to get ol' homey here to do dat these days.

[Boaz]

I honestly don't think I'm baiting people for Satan .

[buckwheatpaul]

Faith starts with parents leading and teaching. It is fostered and grows with our learning as we grow and encounter more and more. As our faith grows so does our love for God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. I believe that we never stop growing our faith it only continues to ripen our relationship between God and us. I pity those that turn away or lack the faith in our Lord. They never seem happy or content....in my humble opinion......Paul

[rl69]

I honestly don't think I'm baiting people for Satan .


Your not. The question can be answered.


John 14:6New International Version (NIV)

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

[Down South]

You can check your own preferred translation and I encourage it . I generally reference the KJV out of laziness because I grew up with it . LOL it is easier for me to quote and deal with BUT that is just me .

Accounts of usage can vary as to how many time the word ..faith is used but average would be bout 240 times in the NEW Testament . Some stats credit believe and belief as the word 'faith', I see the point but discounted them .

How do you interpret the word...faith...in scripture ?
Do we need ...Faith ?
What is ...Faith to you ?
Does GOD require our ...Faith ?
Need not we have ...Faith

May seem complicated but really not . Interpretation is up to us to a great extent . GOD leads through his word and individual revelation through that word is given Can be different understanding through thought and prayer .

So go where you want to with ...Faith . Personally without detail I believe we must have ...Faith . But heck that's just me .

SO ! Faith ? What do you think ?

Didn't read the replies but I let the Bible interpret the Bible.
Hebrews 11:1, Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Almost. Faith is the belief in things unseen. Funny.. I read my way through the thread, and there on what is currently the last post, was my definition.

I believe in God (the Father). I can not see him, but I see his works, and therefore believe that he must exist.
I believe in his son, Jesus the Christ. His existence is a matter of history and requires no faith, but his offering of salvation does.
I have faith that Jesus will return, and a belief that it won't be too many more years.
Perhaps I won't live to see his return, but I have faith that I shall eventually see him and thank him.

[Jr.]

Faith is a funny word (not funny haha but funny strange).

Faith is most often used to describe ones belief in a higher power (which I also do) without any physical evidence to show others only testimony (which to me can transcend the physical in so many ways).

Faith can also be used in a lesser manner to describe an individuals belief in another. I.e. I have faith in Johnny going to college and making something of himself.

In this way I believe that the word has been deminished a little as the way love has over the years.

However when a husband believes in his wife's undying fidelity it is faithful on both parts.

When a child looks up at their parents with complete trust and belief that all of their needs will be taken care of THIS is faith.

To me it is summed up in the eyes and hearts of the children. The undying trust in our father, the absolute resolution of all fear, this is faith.

When Jesus said "suffer the children to come unto me for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." I believe he was speaking to all of us to give us a true example of faith.

[1johnlb]

I like the way the writings of Romans described Abraham's faith.

Romans 4
19*Without weakening in his faith, he faced the fact that his body was as good as dead—since he was about a hundred years old—and that Sarah’s womb was also dead.*

20*Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God,*

21*being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised.

Abraham, regardless of the natural believed in God's supernatural ability to do what He said He would do.

[Pine Baron]

Interesting thread. So many have touched on my feelings on a personal level. I thank all of you.
"Hebrews 11:1, Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
Faith in our loved ones (you will be let down), faith in government (you will be let down), faith in your friends (you will be let down), but Faith in God never lets you down.

[Blackwater]

I honestly don't think I'm baiting people for Satan .

I don't think so either. But Satan provides the bait sometimes. And I stand by my observation that we spend too much time pondering the impenetrable, which means we spend less time on the things that really matter and can do us a lot more good. I'm in no way putting you or your thoughts down, because it's something that's worthy of our consideration. It tells us a lot about where we are spiritually, and whether we are trying to claim more knowledge than we rightfully can or not. So, like I said, I've just quit thinking about such things other than when I'm in a rather frivolous mood, and just want to "play." I quit taking questions like this seriously long ago, though I still keep them in mind.

We Christians have a fault in that we often try to "know" or divine more than we can actually possibly know. We have faith to span that gap in our understanding and perception of all that is, and trying to explain what we cannot know is a bit overly pretentious in my book. Doesn't have to be for everyone. That's why it's so important that we "study to show thyself approved" and share out thoughts one with another. If I think/believe something that is wrong, and don't know it, wouldn't I be rather foolish to NOT want to know and be told about it?

PC says to let folks think what they want. The Bible tells us to test things, and keep what is good. I'll go with the Bible any day, and if I can't really test an idea or thought, I just let it go and let faith decide for me. I'm happier and a lot less confused by things this way. And more effective to boot. If we let the devil keep us tuned in to questions that really have no real answer, aren't we doing his will, rather than God's? Took me a long time to see that one, but it's where I'm at now with it. So many ways, the devil tempts and curbs us and our thoughts and deeds! Ol' Homey here is discovering a few of his tricks. Wish I were smart enough to detect them all, but I'm not.

Satan tempts the Christian more than anyone, trying to keep them from maturing and growing in faith if he can't stop them completely. And being lazy creatures, essentially, and not having the simple time to do everything we'd like to, we have to pick and choose where we'll spend our time and efforts and thoughts. It's how we grow best and most quickly and thouroughly. That's all I'm saying here, and NO condemnations intended AT ALL. Love you guys too much. Just honestly laying out another view. That's all.

[Blackwater]

Faith starts with parents leading and teaching. It is fostered and grows with our learning as we grow and encounter more and more. As our faith grows so does our love for God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. I believe that we never stop growing our faith it only continues to ripen our relationship between God and us. I pity those that turn away or lack the faith in our Lord. They never seem happy or content....in my humble opinion......Paul

You're so right, Paul! We DO have to be led and shown to find real faith and belief. And it's best to start with children, since they haven't developed so many "defenses" against believe in something we can't see.

And yet, we believe in air, even though we can't see it. We stick out hands outside a car window, while going at speed, and we can feel its effect, but still can't see it. We believe in atoms and atomic particles and even in subatomic particles and phenomena, even though we can't possibly see them. But we CAN believe in them because we can test these concepts, and "prove" them.

And so it is with faith. Faith unproven is just "wishful thinking." What it takes to "prove" it to be real can vary for each individual, but it CAN and IS proven every day. Whether people wish to accept or deny these proofs is their own decision, and it most certainly varies from person to person, some of whom simply will not believe because they simply don't WANT to believe lest it "spoil their fun" somehow or another.

It's our REASONS for our faith that matter most to us. We can't just WANT to believe. To truly believe, we HAVE to have reasons to do so. And they're out there. This, I believe, is one of the great shortcomings of our Christian faith. We simply don't provide non-believers with enough empirical evidence for them to believe, and instead, sometimes seem to want to make it a power struggle with other people's wills - a struggle we cannot win. You can't just tell people to believe, or MAKE them believe by quoting scriptures. They have to be LED to belief by good, logical, sense-making facts. But that's only the seed. The plant grows upon that seed.

If someone tried to get you to believe something you just can't see, would you yield to their wills? Of course not! So it can't really work the other way around, either. It's just a simple fact. People have to be led, and they have to be led by facts they CAN understand. Take someone out in a car, and get them to stick their hands out, and feel the pressure and weight of the wind as you speed down the road, and they CAN believe in air.

The big question is always, "What do I need to say to bring someone to belief?" And it'll always be the big question when we have the desire and opportunity to witness to someone who doesn't currently believe. Legend tells us even Barabus, the condemned rebel who Pilate let free rather than Jesus, found redemption. So pretty much anyone CAN be saved. And it all depends on us, and what we say and do and believe. But first, ya' gottta' give 'em a REASON to believe. And now, we have much in the way of science as well as theology to make our point. It amazes me how many people seem to be outright hostile to accepting the fact that science can now come right up to the threshold of proving God's existence, and that He's very much like the God of our Christian Bible, and HAS to be. And it's all done just like atoms were proven to exist, and so very, very much more.

When folks realize how totally logical it is for God to exist, and how absolutely improbable that He might not, one has truly made a very long stride toward helping them to truly believe. They have to take that final last step over the threshold and into belief, but if you build a ladder or stairway for them, using things they CAN see and understand, then you've brought them as far as we currently can toward belief and true Faith.

As far back as Thomas Acquinas, and probably before that, it was acknowledged that God could be understood better by simply looking at His handiwork here - his Creation - all that is, and how it all works so smoothly and integrally with each other thing in this world. So this isn't a "new thought" by ANY means! It's as old as mankind, probably. I cannot imagine ancient people seeing the wonder of all that's about them, and their NOT having wondered about it all, and seeing the evidence of "things unseen."

REAL Faith has a foundation as solid and immobile as a mountain! And it's real, and can be explained if we just put it all together, and accept what we find. Real faith, folks, ain't just a matter of "free will." It's as solidly based as our belief that airplanes can fly, hydrogen filled balloons float upward, and any other physical fact. It's almost so tangible you could cut it with a knife! Almost.

And we Christians have often, I think, been timid about our beliefs simply because we don't ourselves often know exactly why it is we've come to belief. But if we trace it back long enough, I think just about all of us will find that somewhere, some time, we encountered something that "proved" it all to us. To think of Faith as something that comes to us arbitrarily and as a simple matter of will and choice, is about as illogical and inexplicable a thought as I know. REAL faith IS grounded in good, solid facts. How could it be otherwise?

[jmort]

As mentioned every believer is given a measure of faith. Faith can grow. Paul explains how to grow your measure of faith.
"Faith comes by hearing and by hearing the Word of God." So it is a process. Your faith will not grow without hearing and hearing the Word. I read about a man who established an orphanage and it needed funding. He said it took the same amount of faith to get a dollar in the beginning as $10,000 years later as he exercised his faith and it grew.

[Preacher Jim]

Faith is all that keeps me moving. Knowing that God loves me by that faith it keeps me serving.

[Down South]

As mentioned every believer is given a measure of faith.
Sir, you are correct in a way. We all have been given a measure of faith to believe in God "Jesus". It doesn't matter what any non believer says, they still have that measure of faith to believe in the living God. It was put into them at birth and will remain until death.
What they choose to believe is up to them until they step through the veil of death. Then it is over.

[jmort]

Faith goes far beyond accepting Jesus as you Lord and Savior. One of my favorite passages in the Bible describes Paul teaching to a crowd and one, and only one in the audience is mentioned as "getting it" for Paul perceived that by virtue of his teaching the man had faith to be healed. So Paul told him to get up and walk. Would that we were blessed with teachers of the caliber of Paul. Like I said, most churches are afraid of faith and steer clear of it. That is sad, because without faith it is impossible to please God so saith The Word.

[Down South]

Faith goes far beyond accepting Jesus as you Lord and Savior. One of my favorite passages in the Bible describes Paul teaching to a crowd and one, and only one in the audience is mentioned as "getting it" for Paul perceived that by virtue of his teaching the man had faith to be healed. So Paul told him to get up and walk. Would that we were blessed with teachers of the caliber of Paul. Like I said, most churches are afraid of faith and steer clear of it. That is sad, because without faith it is impossible to please God so saith The Word.
Well Said Sir.

[Boaz]

I agree , wish we had those like Paul to gather and unite us . I am optimistic , we believe in a merciful GOD . Thank you .

[jmort]

It is an honor to be in contact with the believers on this site. May God bless you all in 2017

[johnson1942]

faith is movement. the bible sits on a person desk. full of directions and promises. a person believes all these things but if they never ever use them or act on them there is no faith. faith is taking these directions and promises and using them. believing is not enough, it is action that counts. an example is a cook book full of wonder direction for making a wonderful meal. a person knows the directions are in that book but if they dont follow the directions in actual movement toward a goal nothing comes of it. the bible is the same way, faith is movement and lack of it is stillness or not using faith. the promises and directions are in the bible, act on them. some say i dont have enough faith to do that, what they are really saying i dont have enough belief to do that. faith is the movement. belief and faith are two different things. one can go forward in faith on something with very little belief. then when wonderful results happen their belief is strengthened. when God or his Son say something, thats it, Gods promises and directions are rock solid. you only need a little belief to practice faith.belief will grow as faith is practiced. hope this can help someone understand faith better.

[Boaz]

Thank you johnson1942 . There are many dusty bibles out there . Our faith is in our hands and hearts . Unused you lose it . Darkness creeps in .

[GhostHawk]

I have faith that when the times get bad enough the teachers will appear.

Right now most do not want to hear the message.
Many are asleep, walking through this life thinking this is all they know so that this is all that can be.

Once the Tribulations come and people are hungry for an answer the teachers will stand up and be recognized. I suspect many of you here would be good at it for various reasons.
But that is just my opinion.

I am going to go out on a limb here. Go read Jude, last book before Revelations.
2 pages, to me it has a lot to say about the churches now. But I could be wrong, so I would value your opinion.

[Down South]

I have faith that when the times get bad enough the teachers will appear.

Right now most do not want to hear the message.
Many are asleep, walking through this life thinking this is all they know so that this is all that can be.

Once the Tribulations come and people are hungry for an answer the teachers will stand up and be recognized. I suspect many of you here would be good at it for various reasons.
But that is just my opinion.

I am going to go out on a limb here. Go read Jude, last book before Revelations.
2 pages, to me it has a lot to say about the churches now. But I could be wrong, so I would value your opinion.
I'll give it a stab. As you said most churches are asleep. They mix the old an new covenants. They mix Grace and Law "Old Covenant" You can't mix the two. It's like trying to mix oil and water, it won't work. Either you are under the old covenant of law or you are under the new covenant of Grace.
The old covenant of law is you must do. The new covenant is, it it is done.
Satan and his cohorts try to keep us under the old covenant where he was armed. The new covenant is described in Hebrews 8:12, For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
It would take me a lot to explain that but that is where many Christians are today. Reason being, many try to mix both covenants.
That's the reason many of us don't see the miracles that we should. Many Christians today think that the old covenant is for today when in actually it was nailed to the Cross.
I'll get flamed over this and will have to bring up a number of scriptures.

[johnson1942]

i will give a perfect simple example of faith so it is easier to understand. the bible says when two agree on something in the name of the Lord Jesus christ it is done on earth and heaven. that is a instruction and a promise. it of course means two believers who have accepted christ as their savior. this verse doesnt mean a thing unless two or three believers get together and do it in prayer. faith is when they get together and do it. agree in prayer on something in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. their it is, a promise and all is needed is action. i have done this with other christians many times and it would almost take a book to tell the wonderful results. faith is action on what the bible promises and instructs. many people have belief that is real but never ever practice faith.

[Down South]

i will give a perfect simple example of faith so it is easier to understand. the bible says when two agree on something in the name of the Lord Jesus christ it is done on earth and heaven. that is a instruction and a promise. it of course means two believers who have accepted christ as their savior. this verse doesnt mean a thing unless two or three believers get together and do it in prayer. faith is when they get together and do it. agree in prayer on something in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. their it is, a promise and all is needed is action. i have done this with other christians many times and it would almost take a book to tell the wonderful results. faith is action on what the bible promises and instructs. many people have belief that is real but never ever practice faith.
Thank you....

[Boaz]

Dang ! I love to hear people talk the bible ! Quote scripture , ask questions , sharing of thoughts . You have shown your faith , you have put up verse and you have helped others by your speaking up . Thank you for sharing !

[GhostHawk]

Down south no flaming from me sir. You actually bring up some good points. Things to think about.

As for you brother boaz, you started this! I dang sure hope you enjoy it. Grin

Johnson1942 well said sir.

It is said that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Good intentions alone do nothing.

You have to act on it! Indeed the power of prayer is amazing. But for it to be powerful we must work together.

Lord just for today, all those who are suffering with ill health. If they think of thee, let them be cured of their affliction. Not my will Lord, but thine be done. In the name of God the father almighty, God the son the Christ, God the Holy Spirit. Amen

Brothers I dare you. Make a difference.

[Boaz]

I would like to ask a question . How should I show my faith ?

[Pine Baron]

Boaz, You're showing it right now.

[johnson1942]

just try this boaz. when you are burdened with someones need look at the red letter words of jesus and see how he would deal with it. and do the same. jesus gave many examples on how to pray for many situations and find the way he prayed or taught to pray for the situation that is like the one you are burdened about. the Holy Spirit will give you the burden, then act on it. praying in agreement with someone in the name of the lord jesus christ is very effective. it is however very hard to find someone that can do that 100 percent with you. when you find someone like that of like mind and spirit hang on the that person as a christian friend as you two can really move mountains in the name of the lord jesus christ together. you have to look at each burden or situation to see if you can see and understand the root cause. if there are demons or bad spirits involved and some situations have that problem then you have to first bind satans power over that situation then bind the bad spirits under him then you can pray for that situation. jesus says to storm and take a house you first have to bind up the strong man living their. not every situation is like that and it is easy to figure out when you have to deal with satan first before prayer. if the person your praying about has control over people or a group when they shouldnt and never ever is held accountable and every one fears them then they have satans power protecting them. when you break that power, the evil game for them is over and things change. also remember when christ healed the blind man with mud made with spit and a prayer he had to pray twice for a complete healing. that was christs example to us to keep praying for results until they are obtained. ill stop there as that a lot to take in. how should you practice faith, see and situation and find a way in the bible to deal with it. keep asking the good questions, maybe some of our answers can change a life for the good forever.

[Blackwater]

A very salient point, Johnson. It pierces right to the heart of it all, and what it REALLY means. Thanks!

[Boaz]

O yea ! The red letters! I do love to hear what Jesus had to say . Seems there's not much talk of Satan in the churches these days . Seems our Lord stayed busy casting out demons in his time here in the flesh . I expect there are still plenty of Satans demons among us , Satan is real . Jesus had some dealings with him in the wilderness , Satan lost .

And faith ? Jesus was faithful to his father till the end to pay our debt . Jesus is faithful to us , he loves us . None will come to the father except by him .

[shooter93]

I used to ask people ...what if I could show you incontrovertible proof.....absolute proof ....no question about it that there was no God. Many would say they would have to rethink some things. Then they would ask me what I would do if they proved it to me. My answer was simple.....you can't. Very few people ever answered you can't.

[1johnlb]

If I refuse to see, you can't even prove to me you exist. Some people refuse to see, it would screw up their whole hypothesis on reality, real or not.

[DLCTEX]

Faith is believing God will do what he said he will do. Get in the Word and find his promises. All his promises are yes and amen.

[GhostHawk]

Brother Boaz you don't need to worry about showing it sir, it SHINES forth from those who have it.

You become a candle in the darkness. A light for those around you. Just BE what you are, live that faith the best you know how. Try hard not to stumble and fall.

Take care of yourself first, then close family, then more distant family. If someone asks for help pray with them. Show them your bible, pick out something that may help lift them through their problem.

But your doing it brother! You and Blackwater both have inspired me. Along with many others here.

Just keep on living it.

To GOD be the glory.

[Alabama358]

Faith... Is Salvation

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Boaz,
believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you are there. It is really that simple, to many people get caught up in the works and get pulled off course.

[rob55]

You can check your own preferred translation and I encourage it . I generally reference the KJV out of laziness because I grew up with it . LOL it is easier for me to quote and deal with BUT that is just me .

Accounts of usage can vary as to how many time the word ..faith is used but average would be bout 240 times in the NEW Testament . Some stats credit believe and belief as the word 'faith', I see the point but discounted them .

How do you interpret the word...faith...in scripture ?
Do we need ...Faith ?
What is ...Faith to you ?
Does GOD require our ...Faith ?
Need not we have ...Faith

May seem complicated but really not . Interpretation is up to us to a great extent . GOD leads through his word and individual revelation through that word is given Can be different understanding through thought and prayer .

So go where you want to with ...Faith . Personally without detail I believe we must have ...Faith . But heck that's just me .

SO ! Faith ? What do you think ?

We do have faith. Founded and unfounded.

I like the Hebrews and the James scripture references. Then there is, "faith comes by hearing the word of God." Romans. Faith is funny. It is sometimes the opposite of fear. It is founded in our concepts of truth and value. Every one who is not an aeronautical engineer and calmly gets on a plane exercises faith. Not believing doesn't cause the plane to crash. Most who fear flying drive on the highway frequently without a care and statistics tell us it is the most dangerous thing we do. Unfounded faith.

I believe The Creator is and The Creator rewards those who believe. Belief implies a strong attempt to meet The Creator's standards. Something one works for but never really attains in this life, bringing us to the concept of Grace.


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[Blackwater]

Brother Boaz you don't need to worry about showing it sir, it SHINES forth from those who have it.

You become a candle in the darkness. A light for those around you. Just BE what you are, live that faith the best you know how. Try hard not to stumble and fall.

Take care of yourself first, then close family, then more distant family. If someone asks for help pray with them. Show them your bible, pick out something that may help lift them through their problem.

But your doing it brother! You and Blackwater both have inspired me. Along with many others here.

Just keep on living it.

To GOD be the glory.

Ghost, you bring up a whale of a point also. Much of the problems we're suffering today, are due to the parents of so many of our population not having really taken their or their offspring's salvation seriously. Most of them, I think, believed, but they simply took it so casually that they really never tended to the matter either for themselves or their children, or anyone else. They just got too caught up in "making a living" and enjoying whatever fruits of it they could manage to spare, and .... religion just got left out. They never thought about it, much less taught it, except maybe in those quiet "personal" times when something called to them, maybe.

It's in our ACTIONS that we betray who and what we really are, and what we truly believe, and how steadfastly and solidly we hold these beliefs. And indeed, it DOES shine through whatever else is arranged all about us to confuse and obfuscate things for folks without a strong central core of real belief. And the wonder of it all is that God uses us, such imperfect and flawed beings, to do His will, if we'll just allow Him to use us. So many of the finest people I know are also some of the humblest. You'd never notice them, for they mostly just observe the folks around them, and don't play much of a role in anything outside their church. Inside the church, though, and they are ALWAYS there, lending some sort of helping hand, or raising the level of cheer just by their presence and laughter. So indeed, it does shine through, and I think one of the great surprises for those who haven't ever really made much of a contribution is how absolutely EASY it is to make a difference in the lives around us. All it really takes is a little conviction, a little simply noticing the things and people around us, and a simple will to step in and ask if we can help. If you can fall off a log, you can witness and show some Christian kindness to someone, and you may never know what a difference it might make. God truly does work in "mysterious ways" His wonders to fulfill.

[Boaz]

When you listen for that small voice . When you lay aside you pride . When you become tired of what you try to control but can't . When you have fought Satan on his own ground and lost you will see with new eyes , you will see need beyond your own . You will understand . You will find GOD .

It's not about you , you are promised death , you are born in a state of dying . It's what you do in between that counts . Most don't want to hear the reality of 'life'....and death . Death is salvation , resurrection to eternal life with the one who loves and created you .

Jesus birth was miraculous ! The son of the one true living GOD that loves you . He came to lead , to teach , to love . His son that layed down his life as a living sacrifice to pay our debt that we could not pay . Humiliated , shunned , tortured , nailed to a Roman cross to suffer for our weakness and still he loves us .

Faith seems a small price for what was given receive to the reward , the gift of salvation .

Choice only choice .

[GhostHawk]

All it really takes brother Blackwater, is when you see that shine in someone else. You look them in the eye, take their hand and shake it firmly. And say something like "Keep it up" or "I appreciate what you do!"

So I am going to say it right now.

Brother Boaz, take care of yourself. You sir are important to me, you MATTER! I CARE about you. So please care about yourself too. Keep yourself on the steady.

Brother Blackwater, so you don't feel left out. I love you too brother! Keep it up, I see what you are doing. Attaboy!

Pine Baron, Preacher Jim, Bzcraig, this goes for you too.

Now if your name was not up there, just know names are not my strong suit.
If your shinin, keep it up. I'll see, and someone else will to.

One way or another we have a long hard road ahead of us. And it is not us old timers that are going to be leading the way. We can maybe show you how it is done for a few years yet.

Best be practicing. While your at it, I heard a sermon a long long time ago about giving. Giving so that your left hand does not know what your right hand is doing. Giving with no expectation of thanks, reward, or recognition. Lord knows what you do, that is enough.

Love you guys! Straight from the heart. Walk in his light.

[Boaz]

GhostHawk Thank you for the support . We all support each other . I'll contradict you though , I am not important . Barely educated , awkward , not exactly a driving personality . Just an old ex oilfield roughneck ..nothing special . My only saving grace is I will speak . May not be politically correct or make much sense but I'v seen the elephant .

We have to try , so much need . Seems many can't find him , so much smoke and mirrors put up by the father of lies . We live in a complicated world , or at least as complicated as you would make it . The message and offer of salvation is so simple in a complicated world that it's pushed aside . The choice of GOD's offer of salvation is life itself .

Thank you , always faithful to post , to profit GOD's word .

[Bzcraig]

Once again my brothers your kind words, positive attitude and demonstrable affection have humbled me! May all of God's promises manifest themselves in your homes.

[GhostHawk]

Ahhh but brother Boaz sir, you ARE important. To me if no one else. Smile.

Keep on shinin bro.

[Hogtamer]

Let me share a revelation I had of sorts about this years back. Most here are deer hunters to some degree. We go out and find the rubs and scrapes of a buck marking his territory, looking at the evidence of things not seen. We often sit for hours or days pondering the magnificence of creation in the fall woods. How did this all come about? Paul writes in Romans 1 that creation is its own testimony, that in observing nature as we do we are without excuse not acknowledging our Creator. Suddenly the buck we have been hunting appears at the scrape we're watching, the substance of things hoped for! Hebrews 11 goes on and recalls men and women of faith through scripture, reminding us that they had not received the promise of salvation to come through Christ, yet they persevered in the hope of God's promise. Faith is available to all but we need to look for the rubs and scrapes that God leaves along His way. Some are blessed with the gift of belief early, for some, it is a lifetime hunt. Sadly, some give up, turn their backs and go about their unfulfilled lives. One of the prayers I cling to is one uttered by a man whose son was dying. Jesus told him to believe and His son would be healed. I believe Lord! Help my unbelief! He acknowledged Jesus for Who he was, and put his trust in Him. And God does the rest. Such is faith.

[Boaz]

Thank you Hogtamer .

[Blackwater]

What a clearcut example. Thanks, Tamer!

[rob55]

Let me share a revelation I had of sorts about this years back. Most here are deer hunters to some degree. We go out and find the rubs and scrapes of a buck marking his territory, looking at the evidence of things not seen. We often sit for hours or days pondering the magnificence of creation in the fall woods. How did this all come about? Paul writes in Romans 1 that creation is its own testimony, that in observing nature as we do we are without excuse not acknowledging our Creator. Suddenly the buck we have been hunting appears at the scrape we're watching, the substance of things hoped for! Hebrews 11 goes on and recalls men and women of faith through scripture, reminding us that they had not received the promise of salvation to come through Christ, yet they persevered in the hope of God's promise. Faith is available to all but we need to look for the rubs and scrapes that God leaves along His way. Some are blessed with the gift of belief early, for some, it is a lifetime hunt. Sadly, some give up, turn their backs and go about their unfulfilled lives. One of the prayers I cling to is one uttered by a man whose son was dying. Jesus told him to believe and His son would be healed. I believe Lord! Help my unbelief! He acknowledged Jesus for Who he was, and put his trust in Him. And God does the rest. Such is faith.

Amen



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[rob55]

GhostHawk Thank you for the support . We all support each other . I'll contradict you though , I am not important . Barely educated , awkward , not exactly a driving personality . Just an old ex oilfield roughneck ..nothing special . My only saving grace is I will speak . May not be politically correct or make much sense but I'v seen the elephant .

We have to try , so much need . Seems many can't find him , so much smoke and mirrors put up by the father of lies . We live in a complicated world , or at least as complicated as you would make it . The message and offer of salvation is so simple in a complicated world that it's pushed aside . The choice of GOD's offer of salvation is life itself .

Thank you , always faithful to post , to profit GOD's word .

You are important enough for God to send His Son for you.


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[Boaz]

That I am sir ! As are we all ! But that the lost could find him . Seek and ye shall find but first you must open your heart to him .

[GhostHawk]

Amen and well said hogtamer!

TY Rob55.

You see Brother Boaz? You ARE important. We all are, even though we may seem unimportant, insignificant, not noteworthy. I believe in the final battle every single soul will matter.

[Pine Baron]

What a wonderful thread. I am renewed. Thank you all. Go in Peace.

[castalott]

Pine Baron ++++++++

Wonderful Thread.... I understand with all your explanations... Good thread...

Dale

[Blackwater]

One other thought I had. Faith is really believing, simply by the power of our Faith in God, things we can't completely understand. When we still believe in spite of our limited ability to perceive and know, that's Faith, too. It's also full of Trust, Peace, Grace and Honor. But mostly, it's about real, abiding Faith.

When we can smile even amid terrible circumstances or conditions, and know that even if we die, we'll yet live again, that's faith. With faith, we need fear nothing this world can offer or threaten us with. It can't touch the real us that is pent up in these mortal bodies we wear right now. But one day, we'll shed them, and be free from the restraints and limitations and infirmities of these mortal bodies we wear now. The real us will be freed, to live yet again, and in a MUCH more awesome place, more awesome than we can possibly understand or envision in our present limited form.

Is our God an awesome, loving and wonderful God, or what?

[Down South]

We are in this world, but not of this world. We will never die. The house or body that we live in will some day die unless our Lord comes before then.

Faith is believing God. Read Hebrews chapter 11, the hall of fame of faith.