My First Cast + PC Boolits Lee 356-120-TC

[Javater]

Thank You castboolits members for the help.
I have casted about 500 Lee 356-120-TC and PCed them with Smokes purple. (Jet Black is next!)
all sized to .358 for PT111 G2 and S&W Shield
Used range scrap + about 2 grams of pewter per 500.
Now i need to decide what OAL to use. I am thinking 1.025-1.06. I have used with Berry's with great results.
Will be using HP-38 3.9gr (Only have 4lb of HP-38)
What are your thoughts?
183642
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Did i just make you turn your head sideways? lol

[runfiverun]

I think your boolits will set their own oal.

[Yodogsandman]

Those aint Berries. Make up some test dummy rounds and try them before you load those all up. Then start at the STARTING loads and carefully work up from there.

[308Jeff]

I think they look pretty darn good. Looking forward to eventually casting and PC'ing my own.

[Javater]

There isnt really a good Load data to use on these. I found others use OAL 1.025, 1.05 and 1.06. As for powder, HP-38 doesnt have much for 125-126gr with this Mold. I found 3.9gr starting for 125gr LCN via Hodgdon. Ramshot Zip is next to HP-38 and has info of 124 (L) LC RN 3.4gr starting 958 Max 3.7gr 1,035 Max PSI of 34,722 COL 1.050. I may go with 3.6gr of HP38 COL 1.05.
Anyone got anything different then what i have found?

[OS OK]

They look like purple people eaters.

It might just be the angle I'm trying to look at them but it looks like a couple on the right side of the picture have slumped to one side. Is it just me or an illusion?

[Javater]

Here is another Pic183696

Purple, Barney's Blood and Jet Black.

[wyofool]

"only" 4lbs. That will do over 7,000 rounds with that load. You have a ways to go.

[runfiverun]

the 3.4 would be alright to start with, airc I got to about 3.8 with my non P/C'd ones.
I generally try for about 850 fps first and see how things shoot in the pistols.
It'd be okay with me if the boolits went through the target backer and fell to the ground.

[Cherokee]

HP38/231 - I have loads from 4.0 to 5.0 gr for 123-124 gr bullets but not with that specific bullet. The 356120TC is my most used 9mm bullet (30k so far) and I have to use 1.055" OAL to feed in several 9mm pistols but I use HS6/WST/Power Pistol with it. Your 3.9 gr load of HP38 should be fine. Use the "plunk test" to set your OAL. My 9's do fine @ .356 not PC'ed.

[Javater]

HS6/PowerPistol/WST are little slower burn rate then HP38. I think i would be on the high range of the load. OAL of 1.06 works well for my 9's using Berry's HBFP 124gr J-word bullets, but i may lower to 1.055 or 1.025 which are 2 most common OAL i seen.
My PT111 G2 has oversized bore of .3581 and Shield has .357 but i have heard from Forrest that .358 boolit + PC performs better then .356

[JeffG]

HS6/PowerPistol/WST are little slower burn rate then HP38. I think i would be on the high range of the load. OAL of 1.06 works well for my 9's using Berry's HBFP 124gr J-word bullets, but i may lower to 1.055 or 1.025 which are 2 most common OAL i seen.
My PT111 G2 has oversized bore of .3581 and Shield has .357 but i have heard from Forrest that .358 boolit + PC performs better then .356

It seems like you are focusing on using an exact COAL from the load manual and you are going to quickly find it's hard to do that. The first problem is you are not going to find that exact bullet in any of the published manuals that I am aware of. Instead, determine what the maximum OAL your 2 pistols can use, then use a starting load for that weight bullet and start testing. If I use that exact bullet sized .357 in my S/W SD9VE, I need OAL set to 1.07, otherwise, it will not chamber consistently because the diameter of the bullet is wedging in the throat. On the other hand, my PT 111 G2 will tolerate about 1.15 OAL as I recall before interference with the throat. So, I can and have loaded different OAL for the different 9's I have, or I use whatever the shortest OAL is that will still chamber properly or 'pass the plunk test', which happens to be 1.07 for the SD9, then use it on all of them. If I can seat the bullet longer to get it close to the throat, I do, then begin with a starting load and work up, looking for over pressure signs, blow by around the case, shooting it over the chronograph, etc.

To measure OAL for the pistol, I remove the barrel and drop a sized bullet into the throat and gently push it with a dowel until it snugs in the throat. I then measure the distance from the muzzle to the tip of the bullet. Then remove the bullet, reassemble the pistol and measure from the muzzle to the breech face. Subtract the first measure from the second then remove about another .005 and that should give you a pretty close value for COAL maximum for that pistol.
Personally, I just use a wooden dowel and make a razor blade cut on the dowel flush with the muzzle for both measurements and measure the distance between the cuts using dial caliper. It is close enough to get the job done. Load a dummy round and check that it will chamber and you can remove it without it being jammed into the throat.

[Javater]

Jeff thanks for that great tip on way of measuring. Why do you want to use maximum COAL vice just making all of them short? i.e 1.025. Besides pressure and such?

[JeffG]

Theorectically better accuracy and maybe more consistent burn because there won't be as much jump to reach the throat. It's also going to mean less pressure.

Im sure somebody will jump in here and straighten me out if I'm saying anything wrong.

[Phlier]

Please be extremely careful if you end up having to load at that short of an OAL, especially with faster burning powders like HP-38. Try to load it as long as your chamber will allow. I'm loading the Lee .356-124-2R RN at 1.125-1.130. Go as long as you can.

Check out the following thread for great information on fitting a bullet for 9mm (or any other caliber, really): http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?121737-Setting-up-for-boolits-in-a-new-9mm
(http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?121737-Setting-up-for-boolits-in-a-new-9mm)

[popper]

WST is fast, not slow WSF is slow.

[Javater]

Using Jeff's Method, i found that PT111 G2 has max COL of 1.06 with Lee Mold 356-120-TC.
Shield has 1.03 with same mold. So now i need to set COL between 1.025 and 1.03(depending on the headstamp on the casing).
Gonna try 3.9, 3.7, and 3.5gr of HP 38/W231. Hope it doesnt blow up in my face.
During the seating process i found that bottom of the boolits are swaged down to .357 but upper groove bands stays at .358.
I also used some on FCD and seems to stay the same.
I am using 38 S&W powder expender die in the lee system.

Any suggestions before i possibly blow myself up?

[runfiverun]

okay.
you now have an oal that theoretically works.
make a couple of dummy rounds and see if they chamber, now strip them from the magazine.
that will set your true what works and what don't oal.

when you have that set look at how deep your boolit is sitting in the case.
compare that depth the best you can to a known tested load [from a manual]
adjust your loads based on that leftover case volume.

[Eddie17]

Looks like parchment paper, your using!
Great stuff!

[Javater]

i made dummy round and they do chamber and cycle well for both guns. My concern is my load data. Hodgedon, Alliant data are very different.

[Javater]

Looks like parchment paper, your using!
Great stuff!

yes they are =). I can use them about 3 times before they start cracking and fail.
I need to see if i can get good results with they dumping them in wire cage. dumping them on the tray makes ugly and stuck bullets. standing every single one of them takes more time then casting them....

[runfiverun]

they will be different and Hornady using their XTP will be even lower.
they are like that because of the case volume difference.
oal is just a measurement to the tip of the boolit, the case volume is where the differences come in.

[Taterhead]

Here is another Pic183696

Purple, Barney's Blood and Jet Black.

Cool. Is Barney's blood just a mix of the purple and black? I have those two onhand. Looks kind of cool!

[Gohon]

I've got that same mold and just this month picked up a Taurus PT111 G2. Great gun once the trigger pull is instilled in the brain. Anyway, I bought the mold to cast for a Bersa BP9CC, cast maybe 100 bullets then powder coated them. Ran about a dozen rounds with 5.1 grains of Power Pistol and a COL of 1.102. Function and accuracy was great but haven't followed up any as I don't shoot the 9MM that much and I've got a bucket of the plated stuff I'm still shooting. Was going to make up a batch of the same to test in the Taurus but from what you're saying the same COL for the Bersa may not work in the Taurus. I hope they do work so I don't have to keep the stuff separated.

[Javater]

Cool. Is Barney's blood just a mix of the purple and black? I have those two onhand. Looks kind of cool!
Coat of Jet black and light coat of purple.

[Javater]

I size mine to .358 so they fat. b/c they are fat i cant seat them for PT111 G2 at your COAL. 1.102. I can seat them at 1.06 or so, but i need to seat them at 1.03 so i can shoot out of Shield and PT111 G2

[Gohon]

Well if I have to seat them a little deeper it should still work well for both pistols. As long as accuracy and function is fine at 15-20 yards I'll be happy as I consider them both a up close and personal weapon.