357 Mag brass question

[Tenbender]

I have a wadcutter mold that throws a 160+ gr. boolit. I understand the need for wadcutter brass in a 38 spl. but what about 357 brass ? I would like to cast up and shoot these heavy wadcutters in my Blackhawk. Using 357 brass I won't have the fowling like 38 spl. brass gives.
What about it. Do I need a wadcutter brass in 357 Mag. or are there no such thing ?
Thanks

[tazman]

Since you are loading them in 357 brass, there is no real reason to load them so deep into the case as with 38 special. Only seat the boolit halfway down into the case and crimp into one of the grease grooves. You can them use powder charge data for semiwadcutters that are the same weight as your full wadcutter if you wish.
Loading the wadcutters flush with the front of the case was more for usage in semi auto handguns than revolvers anyway.

[mozeppa]

Since you are loading them in 357 brass, there is no real reason to load them so deep into the case as with 38 special. Only seat the boolit halfway down into the case and crimp into one of the grease grooves. You can them use powder charge data for semiwadcutters that are the same weight as your full wadcutter if you wish.
Loading the wadcutters flush with the front of the case was more for usage in semi auto handguns than revolvers anyway.

what auto uses 38 special?
other than coonan auto's?

[gwpercle]

As far as I know, there is no dedicated 357 magnum wadcutter brass . I recently purchased 100 brand new Starline cases to load with the Lyman #358432 , 160 grain wadcutter in my three screw Blackhawk. They worked just fine for the wadcutter bullet .

I know you don't need to use any special brass to load wadcutters in 38 special. I've been picking up fired range brass and loading it with wadcutters for the last 40 years. I know what the 38 special target wadcutter brass looks like, from the factory it's loaded with a soft swaged HBWC with a groove low on the case at the base of the WC, but after it's been fired and resized you are free to reload it with any shape boolit you choose. That down low groove(crimp?) doesn't seem to hurt anything.

What boolit you loading with ?

Gary

[gwpercle]

what auto uses 38 special?
other than coonan auto's?
S&W Model 52 - 38 Master

[44magLeo]

One reason 38 full wad cutters seat as deep as they are is not so much for auto use but to get better, more consistent ignition. The tiny charges of fast burning power used don't take up much space. Seating the bullet deep made the powder space smaller.
Leo

[Greg S]

Colt 1911 set up as a 38 wad gun.

[Maven]

Tenbender, I've never seen or even heard of .357mag/wc brass, but I do load wadcutters in my standard .357 brass. However, I must disagree with tazman about how deeply those WC's need to be seated. You see, I too have a Ruger BH and have tried seating them "long" as well as deeply into the case. In my gun, accuracy was markedly better when seated "short" and either roll- or taper crimped. You may want to try this both ways and roll v. taper crimped too.

[mdi]

Don't really understand what is meant by "wadcutter brass". I have been reloading 38 Special since '69 and know of only one brass (or case size, configuration, etc.) for that caliber. The same for .357. I have a mold for 150 gr. DEWC and have fired thousands of these bullets in both my 38s and .357s...

[tazman]

what auto uses 38 special?
other than coonan auto's?

S&W 52 and some Colt 1911 models



Don't really understand what is meant by "wadcutter brass". I have been reloading 38 Special since '69 and know of only one brass (or case size, configuration, etc.) for that caliber. The same for .357. I have a mold for 150 gr. DEWC and have fired thousands of these bullets in both my 38s and .357s...

Check out this thread for a good description of 38 Special wadcutter brass. They do make a difference but I am not a good enough shot for it to matter without a rest.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?156622-75-000-Wadcutters-in-a-Model-27

[dverna]

Don't really understand what is meant by "wadcutter brass". I have been reloading 38 Special since '69 and know of only one brass (or case size, configuration, etc.) for that caliber. The same for .357. I have a mold for 150 gr. DEWC and have fired thousands of these bullets in both my 38s and .357s...

wadcutter brass has a knurl about half way down

Don Verna

[runfiverun]

it also has parallel sides to the case so the base of the wad cutter ain't squished when you seat it.

[Tenbender]

Don't really understand what is meant by "wadcutter brass". I have been reloading 38 Special since '69 and know of only one brass (or case size, configuration, etc.) for that caliber. The same for .357. I have a mold for 150 gr. DEWC and have fired thousands of these bullets in both my 38s and .357s...

I thought the same thing until I was talking with a military cousin of mine. He had retired from the military and was the man with a pistol. You can shoot wadcutters in any 38 spl. case.
WC brass will be more accurate.
The only problem with mixed brass you might load a high pressure load in a wadcutter case. The wc case is to weak to stand the high pressure load. You might get by with it but like the Glock bulge you might not get away with it ?

[Echo]

S&W Model 52 - 38 Master

And the Jim Clark 38 - I had one - that got stolen. And I knew Jim Clark (Sr)
And Colt made a 38 Special "Gold Cup" back in the '60's I believe

[toallmy]

Can't you use a longer and bigger m die to open up brass deeper to accommodate a full wad cutter , without squeezing down the Boolit . In ether 38 or 357 . That's what I do with 357s - I just wish my carbide die did not size down the brass so much when resizing it .

[44man]

Many factory brass used a cannelure below the boolit to prevent set back. I hate the brass but length is the same. I don't know of special wad cutter brass. You will find the knurl even on .44 brass.

[WebMonkey]

I use r-p 357 brass with the ring halfway down. It definitely has a larger id than other cases after full length sizing.
:)

[sandman228]

I usually use brass that's pretty much on its last legs . by that I mean I load my standard range load in the brass approx. 11 or 12 times . then after 11 or 12 reloads i'll load them 1 or 2 more times with mild wad cutter loads before they go in the scrap bucket . I use the lee tl wad cutter bullet and seat it down to last lube groove then crimp .

[runfiverun]

11 or 12 times?
you must be pushing things pretty hard.
I loaded the same Winchester and same star-line case over 40 times before they split.
airc it was like 43 and 46 when they finally went.

[sandman228]

11 or 12 times?
you must be pushing things pretty hard.
I loaded the same Winchester and same star-line case over 40 times before they split.
airc it was like 43 and 46 when they finally went.

no not really my standard range load is 6.0 gr of unique with a 158 gr bullet . ive had others over the years but I don't usually load hot .

[mdi]

80% of my 38 Special brass has the knurl and mebbe 50% of my 357 brass. Never heard the knurl associated with a wadcutter...

This is the first reference I've heard of specific "wadcutter brass" in 30+ years of reloading (and I've been online for 10+ years)...

[tazman]

Wadcutter brass for the 38 special has been around for several decades. The thin portion of the case extends further down inside the case to prevent the walls from swaging/deforming the base of a soft hollow base wadcutter boolit since it is seated so much deeper than other designs. Several manufacturers make their brass this way specifically for the wadcutter round.
The only time you really hear it mentioned is by target shooters who are looking for that last little bit of ultimate accuracy out of their gun.
I have used it and tested it and found that it does improve the accuracy in my revolvers. The difference is not large but is noticeable.
I, personally, am not a good enough shot to take advantage of the extra accuracy obtained this way. The only way I can see the improvement is when I shoot off a rest. But every little bit helps. Maybe I can get a couple of extra points using this brass.