questions about a Lyman 38 wadcutter mold

[Postell]

Any help would be welcomed, I shoot bullseye with a few S&W 52's and a Colt wadcutter auto.
this mold was bought by my Grandfather or my Father, what can anybody tell me about this old mold ? I normally shoot Remington's 148 grn HBWC but i'm down to my last case and it just doesn't look like any more are going to be available again any time soon. So I am looking for a bullet that works well in my pistols.
The top two pics are of the numbers on this Lyman mold. What can you guys tell me about it ???



182913

182914

I cast a few hundred the other day and I planed on sizing them .360 and see how well they shoot, and if i get poor performance i will start sizing them smaller and see what happen doing that. i am casting them with about 20 lbs of range scrap and a pound of babbit added.
When I push them in the sizer die by hand with the sprue facing up it easily gets pushed in and with the sprue down it just barely goes in the sizer. Is this normal with cast wadcutters ? or is it normal with this old mold ?
i know that the swedged HBWC's for Remington are tapered, But i just have never seen this with a cast bullet.
i also have another old Saeco wadcutter mold i believe from around the same vintage that i need to get degreased and see how it casts. I wonder if it too will cast tapered bullets.
Any help gentlemen would be great. Postell

182916

182917

[runfiverun]

it's a 148gr double ended wad cutter with 2 lube grooves.

I would put the skinny end up and only lube the bottom groove.
the 358[0]63 is the mold number itself, the 0 was added to later molds when they went to a 6 digit number for everything.
and the 127 is to keep the 2 mold halves together throughout the other processes the mold goes through that's why they are both marked.

[Tatume]

Nothing to add, except it's nice to see an informative, accurate response that is succinct, yet fully detailed. Thanks.

[Postell]

I would put the skinny end up and only lube the bottom groove.

Thanks for your reply Sir, When reading books and manuals from the past and present it's like the argument of 9mm vers 45 on which way to lube and load wadcutters especially with the Mod 52, sprue up and lube the bottom groove , sprue down lube all the grooves and so on..
And most that I have read over the years have stated when shooting a auto loader in 38 special ( wadcutter) to load sprue down into the brass..
Can I ask what your reasoning is for skinny ( sprue up ) when I size please.

I might have a bunch of testing to get done this winter..

Postell.

[runfiverun]

it's tapered you want the wider base to block the gas and seal the barrel.

the slightly smaller front end will also enter the throat of the barrel a little easier and straighter by catching the taper and self centering a bit easier.

the minimal sizing your doing is a good start..
I really don't think your gonna have to do a lot of load testing other than finding a load that functions them 100% of the time, and then fiddle around for recoil.


BTW I'm jealous of the pistols.

[rintinglen]

I briefly had use of a S&W 52 back in the 80's while it's owner was in Saudi Arabia for a few months and found that a 358-63 loaded over 2.8 grains of Bullseye was just the berries for that gun. It was the most accurate center-fire auto pistol I have ever fired by a fair margin but I was a new father with a wife and daughter--soon to be two daughters-- so all I could do was shoot it and try not to get spittle from my drool all over it when I did so. I will get one before I die.

[Postell]

it's tapered you want the wider base to block the gas and seal the barrel.

the slightly smaller front end will also enter the throat of the barrel a little easier and straighter by catching the taper and self centering a bit easier.

the minimal sizing your doing is a good start..
I really don't think your gonna have to do a lot of load testing other than finding a load that functions them 100% of the time, and then fiddle around for recoil.


BTW I'm jealous of the pistols.

Thanks, I bought mine back in the late 70's. My grandfather and father also shot Bullseye and there posts have been handed down.
My son have his grandfathers 52 and I have my fathers.
They are definitely pistols that instantly let you know when shot of you made a 7 ring instead of a 10.
Postell.

[Postell]

I briefly had use of a S&W 52 back in the 80's while it's owner was in Saudi Arabia for a few months and found that a 358-63 loaded over 2.8 grains of Bullseye was just the berries for that gun. It was the most accurate center-fire auto pistol I have ever fired by a fair margin but I was a new father with a wife and daughter--soon to be two daughters-- so all I could do was shoot it and try not to get spittle from my drool all over it when I did so. I will get one before I die.

That seems to have always been the standard load for the 52, Thats what I have always used in mine along with Remingtons 148 HBWC bullets. I have to bump the powder to 3.0 grains in my Colt auto to reliably cycle the action and lock it open on the last round.
They truly are great pistols, almost everytime someone asks about what are you shooting ? ( After they have picked up some brass and get a wrinkled up face ) I ask if the want to shoot it and most take me up on it. A few at the club I shoot at now own one after shooting one of mine. They curse me.. lol.. but they still bought one.
Thanks,. Postell

[.22-10-45]

Just curious..if you were using factory swaged HBWC before, which are nearly pure lead..why are you adding 1# of Babbit to range scrap? The range scrap is likely harder than the factory wc.

[runfiverun]

that could explain the diameter.
range scrap is usually 10bhn or so.

[TCFAN]

I don't know if this is any help or not but for what it is worth I have the same mold as you do. It is a 4 cavity Lyman and is marked the same as yours 358 63 no zero.My mold cast right at .358 with out any taper cast from air cooled wheel weights. I load this boolit in 38 special wadcutter brass with the sprue up over 3.2 grains of Bullseye. I tumble lube as cast with 45-45-10 and shoot them from my S&W 686. They also work very well in 357 brass with 3.5 grs. of Bullseye in my Marlin 94C as long as the bevel of the boolit is just outside of the case. They feed without any hang up.This wadcutter is not the most accurate boolit I shoot in my 686 but it is very close....Terry

[Postell]

Just curious..if you were using factory swaged HBWC before, which are nearly pure lead..why are you adding 1# of Babbit to range scrap? The range scrap is likely harder than the factory wc.

The extra tin seems to fill out the sharp edges better especially with all the grooves in these wadcutters. They are really not that hard, I can easily leave a fingernail mark in them.
I was always under the impression that more tin and antimony caused smaller bullets..
Full disclosure,,,,,, I worked in the field for Otis Elevator for over 20+ years, I spent a few of those years working with the engineering Dept at a Otis factory in Bloomington, IN. And everytime I walked by the lady that cut ten pound blocks of cable / slow speed babbit into one pound chunks I would put one in my pocket..plus all the years of old elevator tearouts and getting out bearing babbit out of huge old geared and gearless machines.. I have plenty..

[Postell]

that could explain the diameter.
range scrap is usually 10bhn or so.


I have always thought that more tin and antimony will cause a smaller bullet.. maybe I'm wrong, but what I'm casting are really pretty soft.
The next time I run bullets I will empty the pot and add 30 to 1 alloy and cast a few wadcutters and see what they measure.

[Postell]

I don't know if this is any help or not but for what it is worth I have the same mold as you do. It is a 4 cavity Lyman and is marked the same as yours 358 63 no zero.My mold cast right at .358 with out any taper cast from air cooled wheel weights. I load this boolit in 38 special wadcutter brass with the sprue up over 3.2 grains of Bullseye. I tumble lube as cast with 45-45-10 and shoot them from my S&W 686. They also work very well in 357 brass with 3.5 grs. of Bullseye in my Marlin 94C as long as the bevel of the boolit is just outside of the case. They feed without any hang up.This wadcutter is not the most accurate boolit I shoot in my 686 but it is very close....Terry

Thanks,. Postell

[runfiverun]

no it makes a larger boolit.
pure lead is the smallest, then they get bigger as you increase the additives.

[John J]

Greetings

I to shoot the S&W52 and a Colt 1911 MKIII and love them both. I also have the same mold and load them with 3.0 Bullseye or V310 seated flush with a healthy rollcrimp

I size the bullet to .356 and lube the top 2 groves then load them with the sprue up.

Most 52 barrels slug out at .354-.355

happy shooting

John J

[Postell]

Greetings

I to shoot the S&W52 and a Colt 1911 MKIII and love them both. I also have the same mold and load them with 3.0 Bullseye or V310 seated flush with a healthy rollcrimp

I size the bullet to .356 and lube the top 2 groves then load them with the sprue up.

Most 52 barrels slug out at .354-.355

happy shooting

John J

Thanks John,
This past summer I sized a few hundred of these at .356 with all grooves lubed with a charge of bullseye, and I had quite a few unexplained flyers. Did you have good luck using the 310 powder ?
I just figured with the Remington wadcutters they measured .360 at the hollow base I would just start there and work my way down if that didn't work. Opinions and what has worked for the bulk of what I have read is, lubing one or two grooves seems to be the ticket for the lube part anyway.
Postell.

[runfiverun]

too much lube will give those flyers.
it builds up then is purged causing poor accuracy and then the flyers as it cleans everything out.

[Postell]

too much lube will give those flyers.
it builds up then is purged causing poor accuracy and then the flyers as it cleans everything out.

Thanks, I emptied my lead pot and added maybe 10 ok bs of 30 to 1 alloy ( I use it in my bpcr rifles ) and with that my bullet size dropped about a half of a thou.. I called my dad and tried to see if he remembered that mold and anything about it but he doesn't remember anything about it. Hes 82 and has Parkinson's..
I wonder if he or my Gfather ordered it this way ??
It tapers two thou... who knows... ��

[runfiverun]

I'd rather have a big than a small boolit.
I'd make some and try them, a couple would be easy enough to mock up and make sure they feed well.
then go from there to the target.
the worst that happens is you need to size the whole thing to 358.

[John J]

Greetings

I love v310 it burns very clean the only down fall is its twice the price of bullseye...so i only use it in the 38sp-32swl-32acp and i use the BE for 45acp.

and as said above to much lube will cause the flyers and as you will find out the 52 is unforgiveing.

for the 38 i use only WC brass.

happy shooting

John J

[Postell]

Greetings

I love v310 it burns very clean the only down fall is its twice the price of bullseye...so i only use it in the 38sp-32swl-32acp and i use the BE for 45acp.

and as said above to much lube will cause the flyers and as you will find out the 52 is unforgiveing.

for the 38 i use only WC brass.

happy shooting

John J

I use their powders in a few 17's and a 19 caliber I shoot along with 308. I just have never used there pistol powders.
Add that to play with this winter.
I also use nothing but wadcutter brass in my pistols, i learned that long ago. It used to be a pain to find so I would just buy new Star line brass.
A few years ago I met a man that does a couple of gun shows in central Indiana and he is hooked up with some institution that qualifies yearly with 38's and he gets the once fired wadcutter brass.
When he has it I usually try to buy what he has.
Thanks again John.