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henry8734
12-15-2016, 10:25 PM
Please feel free to move should this be posted in the wrong area... I casted some bullets a week or so ago... I think it was 6 inch solder (I'm guessing pure tin) with 5 lbs of what used to be ww. (I made a bunch of ingots like 2 yr ago...) I tumble lubed with the 45/45/10 alox, jpastewax, and min. Spirits. I did not size since the bullets miked .3575 to .3585. I have not slugged the bbl. Honestly I've been dreading it. Last time I did one it was not nice. So I need to check that part. I did fire one bullet before with stick lube from a 450 sizer... it did not lead bbl. I shot 6 rounds with the tumble lube and noticed leading occuring... 6 more proved my eyes did not lie to my brain...now.... I need to figure out what to do with the other 130 or so loaded rounds, and figure out the best way to un lead my bbl. This was in a s&w mod 19-5, 4", load was 4.7 gr unique with 150gr cast wadcutter. Thanks for all your help. Suggestions I would love to hear: cleaning/deleading the pistola, my mix? My lube? Thanks in advance everyone.

Side note... my Lee 430-240 came in the mail today! Unfortunately I have had some wind leave my sail! But I'm still excited!

Henry

henry8734
12-15-2016, 10:28 PM
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161216/4228973ce44bc1a60a4a11acefb19337.jpg

henry8734
12-15-2016, 10:30 PM
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161216/e51c1db65f21934ae77edea4140c9896.jpg

henry8734
12-15-2016, 10:32 PM
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161216/372a0de45383449e79aa8c0d3fe668fc.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161216/869a93ea008a5d012945b79def2f7c23.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161216/5c75a4693cba3ea849d0af92bdd8e0cd.jpg

runfiverun
12-15-2016, 11:06 PM
do the boolits have a slight waxy feeling to them?
if NO then add another coat of lube.
I warm the boolits with a hairdryer.
melt the lube.
and drizzle a little on the boolits then swirl them around.
dump out to cool on a cookie sheet in front of a fan.
I like to size.
then do a second coat the same way as the first.
when I am done I can feel a slight waxy feeling on the surface of the boolits.
I usually get a little smoke when I shoot too.

jcren
12-15-2016, 11:10 PM
With a revolver, cylinder fit is more critical than barrel (usually) if the bullet will fit through the mouth of the cylinder snuggly, but not scraping, you should be good. Looks like the cylinder may be scraping off the lube.

Oyeboten
12-15-2016, 11:16 PM
Indeed...

What are the diameters of your Cylinder Bores?

If the Bullet is not a more or less snug fit in the Cylinder Bores, then, Leading can result from blow by in the early phases of the Bullet accelerating toward the Forcing Cone.

country gent
12-15-2016, 11:25 PM
As to the leading your experiencing several things to try are 1) lube bullets 2 times with the tumble lube for a heavier coat. on the loaded rounds you might try appling a second coat with a brush, not ideal but may help. 2) check the hardness of your alloy. See if its soft or harder. 3) loaded rounds can be tricky to correct with out disassembling and starting over. For the future ID ingots to alloy and batch number and make note of it in a notebook. Tis way you always know what a batch is. If bullets cast from this have worked in other firearms dedicate it to them maybe. You dont state what caliber just dia. could you be pushing these past the alloies point, 3575 - 358 could be used from 380 acp up thru 35 rem. As to cleaning a good soaking with Shooters choice or other bore solvent and then brush with a new broze brush should remove lead deposits pretty quick. Mixing the shooters choice 50-50 with Kroil and giving it some time to work before brushing also helps. Copper chore boy scrubbing pads ( a few strands on the brush also speed removal. Was the bore fouled with jacket material before firing these rounds as jacket fouling can also speed leading issues. Clean it good and try again if it wasnt. May make a diffrence. You should slug the bore and see what you have to start with.My Berretta 92s barrel dia is .3575 and I can load and shoot 359 dia cast bullets with much better accuracy and no leading.

Yodogsandman
12-15-2016, 11:52 PM
In addition to what the others have said, the case mouth needs to be belled out a little to allow the boolit to enter the mouth without shaving when seating it. You could be scraping the boolit when seating and getting unseen shavings in the lube grooves. The boolit can also be sized down by too much crimp. Pull a seated and crimped boolit and check it out.

henry8734
12-16-2016, 03:16 AM
You guys are awesome! With your guys assistance, I have found that indeed the cylinder chamber and bullet diameter relationship is off.... granted gun is still dirty, however, 5 measure. 357, one measures. 356 near as I can tell.... unsized, tumble lubed bullets measure. 359-to .360.5... ran a few through sizer.... measure .3575-.358....

This may not be the place to ask, but how expensive are the sizer dies that just screw into your reloading press? I'm extremely fortunate to have you guys and this forum to turn to. The wealth of knowledge is unmeasurable! I'm happy! Wish I still had 4 hours in my evening!

WHITETAIL
12-16-2016, 08:10 AM
:coffeecomTake a few of your bullets and put them in a jar.
Then add some Johnsons past wax and then warm
the wax till it is liquid, swirl the bullets till they are coated.
Then with a pair of tweezers place the bullets on a
piece of wax paper over night. Then load and shoot.:Fire:

Wayne Smith
12-16-2016, 08:40 AM
Get the geometry right first. You need to know your cylinder mouths diameter and the bore diameter, hopefully the cylinders are close to one another and larger than the bore. If you search for DougGuy's posts he had done an amazing job of describing this relationship.

Once you have this information you know how big to make your boolits.

Tatume
12-16-2016, 09:02 AM
So far nobody has addressed the leading in your barrel. My experience is that a bore brush, patches, and Eezox are all you need to clean it. Swab with a tight fitting patch wetted with Eezox, brush ten strokes, run a tight fitting dry patch, repeat as necessary.

Some people like Chore Boy copper scrubbing pad, some like the Lewis Lead Remover, both also work well.

odfairfaxsub
12-16-2016, 10:25 AM
I don't want you to be frightened by the level of leading your seeing. I'd shoot what you have since it appears to be smearing or super minor then start over w maybe more lube on your bullets or even a diff powder. W 158 swc my ruger would lead w clays but not power pistol prior to lapping.

waksupi
12-16-2016, 11:42 AM
Properly fitting lead bullets fired at low velocity will remove the leading.

runfiverun
12-16-2016, 12:14 PM
the problem here is the gun itself.
the cylinders [at least one of them] is smaller than the barrel
this is where the leading is coming from.

the lee size dies are like 25 bucks..

mdi
12-16-2016, 01:55 PM
I personally don't care for "push through", "drop through", etc. for finding cylinder throat diameter/bullet fit, they are not measurements. If you are serious about shooting lead bullets it's good to know your gun; slug the barrel (a few times) and measure (preferably with a micrometer) and measure the cylinder throats (pin/plug gauges work great and "ball" gauges work quite well too. Don't bother with calipers as measuring an ID with them isn't accurate.) With facts, measurements to .001" you can figger out why your gun leads. If your cylinder throats are .356" then any bullet fired through that throat will exit at .356". If your barrel groove diameter is .357" then you will prolly get leading every time...

waksupi
12-16-2016, 06:00 PM
the problem here is the gun itself.
the cylinders [at least one of them] is smaller than the barrel
this is where the leading is coming from.

the lee size dies are like 25 bucks..

You apparently haven't priced them lately! More like $37 the last time I looked.

Tatume
12-16-2016, 06:39 PM
In between: $27 + shipping

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/685087/lee-bullet-lube-and-sizing-die-kit-358-diameter

Eddie17
12-16-2016, 06:55 PM
Titanreloading has Lee sizer for $20.48.
Check banner at top for their web site.

Tatume
12-16-2016, 07:14 PM
Titanreloading has Lee sizer for $20.48.
Check banner at top for their web site.

Very cool! Thanks for pointing that out. With Priority Mail 2-day shipping for $9.45 it's still under $30.

B. Lumpkin
12-16-2016, 07:50 PM
With tumble lube, I do the 1st coat with pure mule snot (LLA), size, then hit it with a thin coat of BLL. Works like a charm in 38 special, 45 acp, and even 357 magnum up 1100 fps in a 6 inch barrel. 38/357 bullets are sized .3585, 45 acp .452.

runfiverun
12-16-2016, 09:13 PM
37$ for a LEE sizer???????
that's about what I pay for a custom size die for my stars.

bruce drake
12-16-2016, 09:55 PM
I'd rather pay Buckshot $37 for a LEE style sizing die. I know I'll get an accurate die. But then I kind of like my .311" marked, .308" LEE Sizing Die...Can't use it but it reminds me to save for quality items.

Bruce

henry8734
12-17-2016, 12:34 AM
Ok well as long as it sizes the projectile to the size desired it's worth it. I may try the double lube effort. I've seen through posts here that it may be better, aside from being smokier than a single lube.... regardless size, does matter. Thanks for all your help guys!

Yodogsandman
12-17-2016, 08:01 AM
If you load for many different calibers, it's worth it to get the NOE push through bushing sizers. New bushings are only $9.75 and are made in most sizes. No more need to open up Lee dies.

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=104&osCsid=qo4ssmo5qq6v6gnrasaf06i2k0

waksupi
12-17-2016, 10:48 AM
37$ for a LEE sizer???????
that's about what I pay for a custom size die for my stars.


It's the damn shipping, is where they nail you.

44man
12-17-2016, 11:24 AM
Fit and size all you want. Snot is NOT a boolit lube. How the lube can last the barrel when you can't even see it? It is like a spray of oil on a piston and no oil in the pan.
Alox flew in with a winged devil, not a fairy.

runfiverun
12-17-2016, 12:35 PM
Bruce I'm pretty sure Rick isn't making size dies any more.

mdi
12-17-2016, 01:34 PM
All ya gotta do is look around...http://www.titanreloading.com/lube-sizing-kit :mrgreen:

henry8734
12-17-2016, 02:44 PM
I like the idea of putting a bushing in to size different bullets. This brings me to a new question though... what is the difference between a nose bushing and a body bushing?

gpidaho
12-17-2016, 03:00 PM
Tatume; For removing the lead you already have in the barrel, Birchwood Casey makes a lead removing & polishing cloth that I cut to patch size. You will need to use a size or two smaller jag. Just push the lead out. It may take five or six patches but gets the barrel clean. Gp

Tatume
12-17-2016, 04:03 PM
Hi Gp,

Yes, I have some. I use it for cleaning the exterior of the cylinders, but prefer my method for cleaning barrels. It's faster and more effective.

Take care, Tom

Yodogsandman
12-17-2016, 06:54 PM
I like the idea of putting a bushing in to size different bullets. This brings me to a new question though... what is the difference between a nose bushing and a body bushing?

Body bushings size the body bands, between the lube grooves.

Nose bushings size the boolit nose to the body bands. Set up the die in the press to only size to a certain depth.

You will need just one "Bushing Push Through Sizing Die" to fit all the bushings into. It will come with a long threaded piece that has two set screws at the bottom. One for the bushing and one for the sleeve that fits inside. The die comes with four different sleeve sizes to fit all the different bushing sizes. Screw the threaded piece with the bushing and sleeve installed, from beneath the press up into it. A top piece screws onto the top that the boolits exit from. If you have a red Lee boolit reservoir, you can slide that over the top piece to capture and hold the sized boolits.

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=104_410&osCsid=qo4ssmo5qq6v6gnrasaf06i2k0

runfiverun
12-17-2016, 06:55 PM
a good load will clean it out for you.

the nose bushing is an in and out affair, it is used to round out or make smaller the nose on a bore riding boolit.

henry8734
12-17-2016, 09:02 PM
Hmmm still a little fuzzy on how it works... will I need a nose bushing for a swc?

Yodogsandman
12-17-2016, 10:46 PM
Hmmm still a little fuzzy on how it works... will I need a nose bushing for a swc?

No, just a body bushing and a Bushing Push Though Sizing Die. Oh, and a caliber specific bullet pusher that fits on your ram.

runfiverun
12-18-2016, 12:21 AM
the nose ones are for rifles.

henry8734
12-18-2016, 02:52 AM
Gotcha. Why is a rifle bbl any different from a pistol bbl? I don't mean to be a newb, but I just can't see the difference yet? Lol

Hueyville
12-18-2016, 07:58 AM
Everyone should own a Lewis Lead Remover and know how to properly use it. Will remove nasty leading as fast as a pass with a cleaning rod but if set tool up wrong, take too many passes or misuse in other ways it will ruin a barrel. Used correctly and can unlead a barrel others have given up with in one to two passes. Down side is have to buy attachments for every caliber you will use it with.

It requires little brass screens with hole in center and will find yourself running out of a special order piece at the most inconvenient time. Leaded barrel, no screens and your losing your mind. Especially back in the 1970's when I purchased my first as had to wait for a vendor to open, create an order, mail them a check and wait on shipping. Could take two weeks for a pack of screens back then. It being the 70's happened to be whining when a buddy was visiting and showed him one of the worn out little widgets. I grew up more sheltered than him but his remark was "looks just like a screen that goes in a bong". He tell I was puzzled but the next day made my first trip into a "smoke shop". Was a nerve wracking adventure for a straight kid needing gun accessories walking into a head shop but dang if they didn't have screens in bulk, they were almost free compared to Lewis prices. Even had different sizes for bongs with different size bowls. Bought a ten year supply and spent a year paranoid that a local cop may have seen my truck at the head shop. Now on every corner and nobody notices. Where I buy my 10x refined butane for butane torches now. Actually about half dozen shooting or hobby related items buy from the head shop now and never used for purpose they sell the items. Suggest all reloaders take a visit and look at the odd pipe cleaners, pipe lighters, butane, screens, trimmers and more. If you live in a medical Marijuana state read your Form 4473's well. Your state may not have a problem but at federal level if partake and buy guns your in felony land. This last remark is a free bonus, know a guy who smoked left handed cigarettes and reloaded. He eventually quit reloading due to large number of uncharged and double charged cases.

runfiverun
12-18-2016, 01:00 PM
in a rifle barrel you push the whole cartridge into place.
the nose on some of the boolits stick way out there. [bore rider styles]
it slides into the rifling.
and basically engraves into the rifling.

if you try to push a 304 diameter nose into a 300 bore it won't fit and will push the boolit back into the case.
so you get a nose size die and re-size it to 301 the 301 will fit in the 300 bore and gently take the engraving of the rifling and center the boolit to the barrel.

henry8734
12-18-2016, 01:36 PM
Hmmm makes better sense now. Basically because the chamber is fixed to the bbl right? Auto loaders should need a nose bushing too then?

Yodogsandman
12-18-2016, 03:57 PM
Here's the NOE thread on those...

http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php/topic,647.0.html

Here's the instructions for use...

http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php/topic,1245.0.html

Shottist
12-18-2016, 04:06 PM
Are you sure your "wheel weights" are lead & antimony? More than 2 years ago most wheel weights were zink. No more lead!
Don't know how you can check now. When "sorting" wheel weights I use a small pair if wire cutter pliars. Zink is much harder than lead wheel weightss, so easy to sort. Zink wheel weights give numerous problems in bullet casting. Just my $0.02.

44magLeo
12-18-2016, 08:46 PM
In reading your first post, you said "6 inches of solder" mixed with 5 lbs of ww.
How much did the 6 inches of solder weigh? Your alloy may be too hard.
If alloy is too hard the boolit won't obdurate to fill the bore, this allows burning gases to blow by the boolit, melting the sides of the boolit. Causing severe leading.
Leo

henry8734
12-21-2016, 12:51 PM
Ok guys, thank you! You may have this one solved for me lol. I'm in process of melting known ww down then adding 10% solder to mix. Then casting! We will see... have to unbreak my pot now though! Thanks! Will let you know how it turns out!

Yodogsandman
12-21-2016, 06:09 PM
Don't add more tin than the antimony in your alloy. It's a waste of materials. Clip on wheel weights have between 2% and 3% antimony, about 1/2% tin and say 96.5% pure lead with trace amounts of arsenic. Just add no more than about 2% tin by weight and you'll be fine. For low velocity pistol/revolver rounds, straight clip on wheel weights should work good for you if you run the pot a tiny tad hotter.

5 lbs x7000 gr/lb =35000 gr
35000/2% = 700 gr
7000 gr/lb / 16 oz =435.5 gr per ounce
700 gr / 435.5 gr/oz = 1.6 oz

So, add no more than 1.6 oz tin to 5 lbs of clip on wheel weights for great fill out.

Yodogsandman
12-21-2016, 06:24 PM
You still haven't said what caliber your shooting. Has anyone mentioned that 4.7 gr Unique is way too hot for the 38 Special? That could be your leading problem right there. The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook #4 says the starting load is 3.7 gr Unique and the MAX LOAD is 4.2 gr. Unique. For a 357 magnum, Unique is not listed at all for any boolit weights over 120 grains..

rintinglen
12-21-2016, 06:52 PM
A S&W M-19 is a 357 magnum revolver. His loads are well with 357 magnum capabilities and in fact are just about what the 3rd edition lyman CB Handbook gave as the top load for a standard velocity 358-63 boolit. Having shot a great many hot 38 loads through various 357 revolvers without leading, I suspect that his problem is likely to be either improper fit of the boolit to the gun, improper size of cylinder throats in relation to the barrel bore/groove diameter, inadequate lube, or some combination of the three.

Were I a betting man, I put my dough on the cylinder throat/barrel mismatch, coupled with a need for a little more lube. Somebody bet on the bay.

Echo
12-21-2016, 06:53 PM
As an aside, if that solder is 1/8", my experience is that it takes 21" to make an ounce. If you used 6", that's on the shy side of a 1/3 oz, meaning you added about a third of a percent Sn to the 5 lbs ww's...

Yodogsandman
12-21-2016, 08:47 PM
A S&W M-19 is a 357 magnum revolver. His loads are well with 357 magnum capabilities and in fact are just about what the 3rd edition lyman CB Handbook gave as the top load for a standard velocity 358-63 boolit. Having shot a great many hot 38 loads through various 357 revolvers without leading, I suspect that his problem is likely to be either improper fit of the boolit to the gun, improper size of cylinder throats in relation to the barrel bore/groove diameter, inadequate lube, or some combination of the three.

Were I a betting man, I put my dough on the cylinder throat/barrel mismatch, coupled with a need for a little more lube. Somebody bet on the bay.

That's a real good possibility. I would expect the same but, load pressures were not discussed. The OP has not listed the WC mold used or the C.O.A.L.. It looks to be the Lyman 35863.

The 35863 isn't listed in the Third Edition for the 357 mag but the 358495 is. The weight listed is for linotype at 141gr., which would weigh more if made from almost straight wheel weights. Listed Unique loads for the 357 mag starts at 5.8gr to a max of 7.9gr. Maybe a failure to obturate from too little pressure? How about some combo of maybe four?