Finally got a lathe

[NavyVet1959]

Well, I finally got a lathe -- very entry level, of course.

I had been trying to find one of the old classic lathes at a decent price on Craigslist and such for quite awhile, but every time one came up, I either wasn't quick enough or the seller never responded. I've also had a seller back out of a deal when he decided that he wanted to keep the lathe. I would have liked to have come across one of the old classic lathes that was still in good shape from back in the 1940s and such like the Atlas, LeBlond, Colchester, South Port, etc, but I just haven't had any luck finding one of those for what I considered a reasonable price and which has a reasonable amount of tooling included with it.

I was about ready to break down and get one of the HF mini-lathes, but I stumbled across a Grizzly 7x14 on Craiglist yesterday morning for $400. So, it was a little cheaper than the 7x10 HF unit plus it came with a couple more things (drill chuck, steady rest) that I don't think the HF units come with.

I had been working around various kludges, trying to make my drill press act as a lathe for the few small tasks that I needed it to do, but I was definitely running into limitations, especially on the size of the objects that I could hold and rotate. Having it hold a short piece of steel and then using a file to trim it down while it rotates gets old after awhile, so I had been on the lookout for a decent price on a lathe for awhile.

The seller lived about 15 minutes away from me and I drove over to his house last night and picked it up and moved it to my reloading "shack". He said that he had recently bought a large lathe and milling machine and it was supposed to be delivered on Friday. Interestingly, he said that shipping and unloading was nearly as much as the actual lathe. I don't remember the brands that he mentioned, but he said that the lathe was 1000 lbs and the milling machine was 4000 lbs. He had to hire a forklift just to move it from the delivery truck to his garage.

http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/grizzly-lathe-01-640w.jpg

It's possible for one person to carry it, but there's enough angular pieces sticking out that it is difficult to do it without something jabbing you in the wrong place. :smile:

And my first accomplishment was hollowpointing a bullet:

http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/lathe-hollowpoint-01-320w.jpg

I set my goal pretty low for a first lathe attempt. :smile:

I didn't have a center drill countersink, so given the length that my drill bit was extended from the quill, it flexed / "wandered" a bit, so the center hole is not *perfectly* centered, but it was a lot better than any of my attempts with a drill press. I'll need to stop by HF today and pickup up a center drill countersink.

http://www.harborfreight.com/center-...-pc-60381.html (http://www.harborfreight.com/center-drill-countersink-set-5-pc-60381.html)

I'm thinking that HF center drill countersink would make a good hollowpoint just by itself.

Need to come up with a way make some sort of base inside of the lathe chuck so that when I put a bullet in there, it is always at the same depth so that I can drill the hollowpoint to a set point each time without having to reindex each bullet.

I then grabbed a small chunk of 1.5" PVC pipe and experimented around with it since it was all I had handy. If sure makes a mess of a lot of fine threads of white PVC when you do that. What with the static and everything, I had that stuff sticking *everywhere* on me. :)

I figure this will give me something to learn on and then I can be like the previous owner and sell it and move up to something a bit bigger. My goals on this for now are being able to hollowpoint a few bullets and create different profile powder funnels for my Dillon press and a different expander for my Lee powder-through-expander dies -- something along the line of the Lyman "M" dies.

I guess it's now time to start reading the manual.

[elk hunter]

You just made a serious mistake from now on you will wanting more and bigger machine tools. I started out 40 years ago with a 6 x 24" lathe that grew to a 14 x 40" lathe plus a 10 x 54" vertical mill, a small horizontal mill, a commercial drill press, surface grinder, tool and cutter grinder plus all the welding processes. The list goes on and on for tooling.

Enjoy!!!

[NavyVet1959]

You just made a serious mistake from now on you will wanting more and bigger machine tools. I started out 40 years ago with a 6 x 24" lathe that grew to a 14 x 40" lathe plus a 10 x 54" vertical mill, a small horizontal mill, a commercial drill press, surface grinder, tool and cutter grinder plus all the welding processes. The list goes on and on for tooling.


Well, right now, I only have one project that I definitely need a larger lathe for (a .50 BMG barrel), but I'm good enough at procrastinating that I can put it on the side burner for a few more years. :)

Besides, I would need at least a 1.625" spindle bore to accommodate that barrel in order to modify the chamber. That's not exactly a "hobby lathe" at that point.

[DougGuy]

Have fun with it NavyVet! I use my 1947 Logan constantly. I made do for many many years with my "Carolina Metal Lathe" drill press with 3/4" Jacobs chuck and a grinder/dremel tool/file/sandpaper you know how to get by!

[NavyVet1959]

Have fun with it NavyVet! I use my 1947 Logan constantly. I made do for many many years with my "Carolina Metal Lathe" drill press with 3/4" Jacobs chuck and a grinder/dremel tool/file/sandpaper you know how to get by!

I had been hoping to be able to find an adapter to be able to use a lathe chuck in my drill press, but no luck. The adapter would need to have a JT33 female end on one side and a MT1 female end on the other side. That would also make it kind of long and I would probably just be asking for a major wobble to occur. :)

[HollowPoint]

"I set my goal pretty low for a first lathe attempt."

Nonsense; wether we realize it or not, the goal is to start somewhere. You have now gotten farther than many others ever have or ever will. It doesn't make us any better or any worse that anyone else. It just means that you've taken it beyond the dream stage.

Looking at your newly purchase mini lathe brings back memories. Mine was a Harbor Freight mini lathe. For the longest time I bought into the derogatory things said about these small machines. Granted, they are not the best in the world but within their range of limitations they are very capable; and you can't beat them as a learning tool.

A slightly off the wall analogy: I once watched a program on TV that featured a master violinist playing a very rare and expensive Stratovarious violin. I'm not really into the kind of music he was playing but even I have to admit the the quality of the music coming from that high dollar violin was extremely good.

This same musician then proceeded to put down that classic violin and start playing the same kind of exquisite music with an off the shelf neigborhood-music store violin. He did so to show the aspiring young musicians in the audiance that the music coming from the instrument wasn't due solely to the quality of the instrument but, it was due mostly to the part that they would play in the creation of their music.

In the case of your new little mini-lathe, well, you know. Givem hell.

HollowPoint

[country gent]

Several ways to get the stop you want for the chuck. A simple "spider" can be made from the approriate width of flat stock At work we used 1/8" thick gage stock had it welded into a three legged spider. After welding it was clamped in the chuck and faced true on both sides. In use this sat between the jaws and provided a stop for the part to set against and square up against. The next is turn up a morse taper to match your head stock and drinn and tap for a 10 X 32 screw. (It will need to be relieved on back side since the taper is longer than you can tap) this can be inserted into the taper and the stop set inside the jaws of the chuck for your stop. Last is a dedicated set of chuck jaws with the pocket bored into them. Another way would be a set of collets and a collet stop. The morse taper stop works really well and is adjustable making it useable for alot of things. Your grizzly probably has a #3 morse taper in the head stock, The paper work should tell you. By a machinists hand book and use it it has alot of information. I have several in my tool box early one ( My Grandfathers that doesnt show vee belts yet) one I bought second hand and a new one given to me whan I graduated. Shoot their all out dated now LOL. You can turn the taper up with the compund set to the correct angle. Cut small to large and drill the tap hole thru then relieve the hole for the bolt. In this way it can be done in one chucking.

[NavyVet1959]

Several ways to get the stop you want for the chuck. A simple "spider" can be made from the approriate width of flat stock At work we used 1/8" thick gage stock had it welded into a three legged spider. After welding it was clamped in the chuck and faced true on both sides. In use this sat between the jaws and provided a stop for the part to set against and square up against.

I was thinking something along this line also, but not welding and then getting it faced on both sides. I was thinking more along the line of starting with a round disc that would be larger than the hole for the arbor and then cutting out the sections for the 3 jaws. That way, I would just have to file off the edges of the cuts to remove any burrs from the cuts.

[Sur-shot]

I am still getting my shop set up with the new Griz lathe and Bridgeport. But I have also made a couple of useful things, like an axle for my Big Green Egg cart and cut two slots in my RWS Target Gun to hold the air gun rings on with, cut the recess in an old Puma stag handle for an initial plate, plus made the plate itself from a stainless steel washer. Oh, I cut a Novak adjustable rear sight dovetail notch in a Ruger Commander. But so far nothing serious just still fooling around. I have several projects standing by after I get the digital caliper mounted to the quill holders on the mill. I need to go back and remake some F1 suppressor baffles on the lathe that I made on the drill press, some are not perfectly centered.
Ed

[jsn]

Now get ready to learn all about advanced tool grinding and tool making in order to handle all of those oddball projects you've had stored for years.

[PaulG67]

I presume you have checked this out already but here it is if anyone else want to see what you acquired.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/7-X-14-Variable-Speed-Benchtop-Lathe/G0765

[Bent Ramrod]

Congratulations, Navyvet, on joining the ranks of amateur machinists! You will get a much better appreciation of the manufactured items around you once you try making some stuff yourself. Western Civilization is truly marvelous! :mrgreen:

The Grizzly is a good deal because they support their stuff with parts and expertise. You might also start searching for sites like littlemachineshop dot com and others. They specialize in little fixtures and stuff for miniature lathes and mills. At the very least, their offerings will give you ideas on lathe attachments and specialty tooling you may want to make yourself. You'll probably need a bench grinder to grind tool bits on pretty soon, so keep an eye out.

[NavyVet1959]

You'll probably need a bench grinder to grind tool bits on pretty soon, so keep an eye out.

Yeah, I'm thinking that my existing bench grinder does not have fine enough surface (or is even enough) to do something like that. I've used it too much over the years for rough trimming of chunks of steel that I wouldn't even want to use it to sharpen a lawnmower blade.

[country gent]

Navey Vet I actually perfer the morse taper type stop for most jobs. We had spiders and also had a .090 step bored in the lathe jaws or bigger thin work. The morse taper type stop was easy to install and remove. didnt rattle around like the spiders and was adjustable for depth when needed. Close fitting tapers and a light tap sets them together, a rod thru the spilde and a tap its removed. Theres alot of things you learn after 30 years in the trade. A piece that clamps around the nose of the tailstockThat sticks out the back allows an 01" travel indicator to be used for drill depths easily. Theres alot of things that make running the machine easier and quicker.

[kramynot2000]

Congrats on the new lathe! I also have a 7"x14" that I'm learning on. Have done a few minor projects but still have much to learn. In case you don't already know, a great place to get accessories (and blow your paycheck) for these small lathes is littlemachineshop.com. (I have no connection with them other than being a customer.)

[NavyVet1959]

Navey Vet I actually perfer the morse taper type stop for most jobs. We had spiders and also had a .090 step bored in the lathe jaws or bigger thin work. The morse taper type stop was easy to install and remove. didnt rattle around like the spiders and was adjustable for depth when needed. Close fitting tapers and a light tap sets them together, a rod thru the spilde and a tap its removed. Theres alot of things you learn after 30 years in the trade. A piece that clamps around the nose of the tailstockThat sticks out the back allows an 01" travel indicator to be used for drill depths easily. Theres alot of things that make running the machine easier and quicker.

I'll keep that in mind for when I get more experience with the lathe. I'm thinking that for just hollowpointing bullets that a spider made from plastic or even wood would be accurate enough. Something like this, perhaps...

https://cdn.thingiverse.com/renders/42/b1/9a/f5/91/LatheSpider_preview_featured.jpg

[CastingFool]

Double post.

[CastingFool]

My first lathe was a Jones & Lamson Universal turret lathe. Used collets to machine stock up to 2-1/2" in dia. Also had a 4 jaw chuck if I needed to run larger stuff like 8". It really wasn't mine, but it was the lathe I ran at work. All manual. Loved running it. Just wished I had realized all the stuff I could have made. At the time, the company didn't care if you used their equipment, on your own time, if it was not set up for any particular job. Stayed over many a night, working on gov't jobs. Sometimes, the boss would come over to see what I was making, and just shoot the breeze about guns. He was a big time reloader, and helped me get started reloading.

I know you're gonna have lots of fun with your lathe, NavyVet

[Dutchman]

Suggestion:

http://www.rockler.com/carvewright-1-4-split-collet?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&utm_content=pla&utm_campaign=PL&sid=V9146&gclid=CJnA3oba-NACFU5lfgodg88Axg

Start with say 3/4" stock. Turn the outside down to 5/8" so you have a flange like the picture. The purpose of the flange is to set up against the chuck jaws. Turn and bore the inside diameter for a close slip fit for the bullet you want to hold. The hole will be blind, meaning you don't drill and bore all the way through. It has a bottom. The bottom of the hole serves as a stop for the purpose of repeatability. The hole depth should be only enough to hold the bullet by the groove diameter portion of the bullet leaving the nose exposed. Then use a rotary grinder (Dremel) or hacksaw to make the cuts to the collet so it opens and closes with the pressure of the 3 jaw chuck.

Later when you get into using collets like 3C that go up to 1/2" you can make some simple tooling to hold different diameter bullets and the collet will ensure much more precision TIR (total indicator runout) (centering).

http://media.fotki.com/1_p,wgstfdfbtsktqqdxwfqbfsgtwfb,vi/sqktwdfrfxgtbfwtkf/2/28344/6717603/sq12-vi.jpg

http://media.fotki.com/1_p,swgwdbksgqwrddrxwfqbfsgtwfb,vi/stqswgtgtxrgdbtrwkg/4/28344/7321255/DSCF8867gh-vi.jpg

[Dutchman]

To make a hole with a flat bottom you can grind a drill bit thusly:

http://media.fotki.com/1_p,rqgkgbbbkbfrqdqxwfqbfsgtwfb,vi/bwfqqfdgwxwfqwttbkq/2/28344/2069154/DSCF4073-vi.jpg

For drilling brass or plastic or other soft materials you would grind a "flat" on the two cutting edges as this:

http://media.fotki.com/1_p,rqgkkqqqgtkwtqgxwfqbfsgtwfb,vi/twsskkwtgxkffqrssdb/2/28344/2069154/DSCF4056-vi.jpg

To thin the web of a drill bit you would grind the back side of the flute as this:

http://media.fotki.com/1_p,rqgkkqqfkstdfrgxwfqbfsgtwfb,vi/bsdqbskwrxftwgwdgk/2/28344/2069154/DSCF4051web-vi.jpg

What this does is lesson the effort required to cut material with the drill bit. When you drill large holes using increasingly larger drill bits you would size the next larger drill bit to be just a bit larger than the web of the previous drill.

http://media.fotki.com/1_p,rqgkkqqsdfdrkkqxwfqbfsgtwfb,vi/wsgsqgrfdxbsfsskdbq/2/28344/2069154/DSCF4052-vi.jpg

Part of the drill collection:


http://media.fotki.com/1_p,rqgkgbtfqfqrrrfxwfqbfsgtwfb,vi/rqtrkbqtkxskbqdfqwk/2/28344/2069154/DSCF9413b-vi.jpg

Most used drill set in my shop are the number drills from #1 to #60 mostly as tap drills. I have a set of fractional drills from 1/16" to 1/2" in a stand by the lathe and an almost complete set of metric drills to 14mm.

Dutch

[Any Cal.]

Find a good source for 12L14 steel and aluminum round bar. Best thing ever for little lathe work. Cheap and easy to turn.

0XA Quick Change Tool Holder. Lets you run a real parting blade, and is pretty quick for changing out a couple bits, say turning, chamfering, knurling, then parting in a small piece... in seconds. Nice when you have to sharpen them, no tools needed. Until you get the parting blade, keep a hacksaw handy.

Vernier Caliper. Works for inside/outside/depth measurement, and chips wont mess up the gear rack. Not super accurate, but on mine the outside jaws match my micrometer measurements. Usually one measurement type will be off of the others by .001" or so, but not usually an issue.

Drill chuck for the tailstock, and a big drill index by the lathe. Now that you have a lathe, everything needs a bushing or a threaded hole on the end.

Ignore the carbide stuff. Waste of time. The HSS bits are cheap and super versatile once you learn to sharpen them. And you can build your own boring bars and such with little HSS bits.

Get an empty tuna can and an acid brush, put a magnet on the bottom, and put a bit of cutting oil in it. It rests well on the headstock, you won't be dribbling oil all over everything trying to drip it out of a bottle.

I use a small oil bottle for lubricating the ways, it sits right close too. That way you can do it often.

Oh, and a 1 1/2-2" paintbrush for clearing chips.

And if you can get a desk lamp sitting over the top, you'll be in tall cotton!

[smokeywolf]

Nice buy NavyVet. With some patience you should be able to manufacture most of what you might need for casting and reloading. Gunsmithing might be a bit more challenging.

If your seller was expecting a 2 ton mill, it was a pretty big one. Typical Bridgeport is only around 1800 lbs. My 17/25 X 40 gap-bed engine lathe is 4,000 lbs.

Check out youtube for videos by home machinists. Lots of good informative stuff. If you find you need to replace your toolpost, don't skimp there. An Aloris or Dorian wedge type (as opposed to piston) post is the way to go.

[sharps4590]

Wow....incredible information for another hobby machinist to absorb. I am such a rookie!!!

Navy, congrats!! You're gonna love it. I picked up a Grizzly about 3 years ago and I believe it's a 9 X 19, I'd have to check. I use it mostly for working on cartridge cases and little stuff and love learning how to use it and what all it can be used for.

[Bent Ramrod]

You can probably use your present bench grinder for tool grinding if you get a dresser for the wheels. A "quality import" diamond version works best for me; I've never gotten as good (or quick) results with that segmented wheel thingy.

I used my little Black & Decker grinder for years. It was underpowered and slowed down with anything more than touching up edges, but the amateur tool grinder isn't setting speed records anyway. Keep a cup of water close for dunking, so you don't overheat the edge.

[brstevns]

I do not know a thing about laths other then wood working laths, Would this little lath work for barreling work etc. Any good lesson books out there on using a metal lath

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Congrats!! Buying a starter lathe (10x22 Grizzly) led me to a career change. I now run lathes for a living and love every second of it. At work i run big lathes and small precision lathes. You will wonder how you got by without a lathe for so long, especially being a reloader. You will find that even small tasks around the house can be made easy with a small lathe. Enjoy your new toy and cant wait to see more of your projects, no matter how "simple" they are!

[skeettx]

Well done, well done
An accurate lathe is JUST FUN
Mike

[Traffer]

Interestingly I watched a documentary of the history of machine tools the other night. I forgot the year but the first really huge milling machine was made with ...wait for it... files! This huge multi ton casting was converted into the worlds largest milling machine with skilled file users. Simple tools can do a lot if you are patient and develop the skills.
I just learned to grind the bit like the last drill picture shows. I had to drill a .030" hole center in a grade 8 bolt 1/2" deep to hold a tiny pin. The very tiny bits have a web that looks to be about half the diameter of the bit, so I sharpened them to make the web thinner. Spent a lot of time with a 10x loupe on 3x glasses to grind these tiny units. I don't have a lathe. I drilled the hole with an electric hand drill in a vise and a pin drill in my hand. It is exciting to be learn to do something like that.


To make a hole with a flat bottom you can grind a drill bit thusly:

http://media.fotki.com/1_p,rqgkgbbbkbfrqdqxwfqbfsgtwfb,vi/bwfqqfdgwxwfqwttbkq/2/28344/2069154/DSCF4073-vi.jpg

For drilling brass or plastic or other soft materials you would grind a "flat" on the two cutting edges as this:

http://media.fotki.com/1_p,rqgkkqqqgtkwtqgxwfqbfsgtwfb,vi/twsskkwtgxkffqrssdb/2/28344/2069154/DSCF4056-vi.jpg

To thin the web of a drill bit you would grind the back side of the flute as this:

http://media.fotki.com/1_p,rqgkkqqfkstdfrgxwfqbfsgtwfb,vi/bsdqbskwrxftwgwdgk/2/28344/2069154/DSCF4051web-vi.jpg

What this does is lesson the effort required to cut material with the drill bit. When you drill large holes using increasingly larger drill bits you would size the next larger drill bit to be just a bit larger than the web of the previous drill.

http://media.fotki.com/1_p,rqgkkqqsdfdrkkqxwfqbfsgtwfb,vi/wsgsqgrfdxbsfsskdbq/2/28344/2069154/DSCF4052-vi.jpg

Part of the drill collection:


http://media.fotki.com/1_p,rqgkgbtfqfqrrrfxwfqbfsgtwfb,vi/rqtrkbqtkxskbqdfqwk/2/28344/2069154/DSCF9413b-vi.jpg

Most used drill set in my shop are the number drills from #1 to #60 mostly as tap drills. I have a set of fractional drills from 1/16" to 1/2" in a stand by the lathe and an almost complete set of metric drills to 14mm.

Dutch

[Traffer]

I don't know how big your grinder is but, yes you can get wheel dressers. The segmented tungsten carbide ones are a too crude (in my opinion) for that kind of grinding but you could finish dress them with a diamond wheel on a dremel. You can get a batch of diamond wheels about 2 1/2" diameter on eBay for well under $10.

You can probably use your present bench grinder for tool grinding if you get a dresser for the wheels. A "quality import" diamond version works best for me; I've never gotten as good (or quick) results with that segmented wheel thingy.

I used my little Black & Decker grinder for years. It was underpowered and slowed down with anything more than touching up edges, but the amateur tool grinder isn't setting speed records anyway. Keep a cup of water close for dunking, so you don't overheat the edge.

[smokeywolf]

What has always worked best for me to dress standard grinding wheels (not diamond) is a Huntington dresser, aka "starwheel dresser", followed by a Norbide stick (Norton's boron carbide stick), aka a "dog turd".

[NavyVet1959]

I do not know a thing about laths other then wood working laths, Would this little lath work for barreling work etc. Any good lesson books out there on using a metal lath

It would have to be a pretty small diameter barrel to fit through the spindle bore. I think its only 20mm (0.78"), so anything with a larger diameter than that would probably need to be short enough to fit on the lathe between centers. It does have a steady rest, so it *might* be possible to turn a small diameter rifle barrel if you were willing to work on a few inches of it at a time. My gut feeling though is that I would probably screw it up and have either steps in the barrel if I tried that or the different sections that I worked on would be non-concentric.

It would probably be OK for handgun barrels though. If I was wanting to thread a M1911's barrel, it would probably work if I added a 4-jaw chuck since the chamber end would need to be held in the chuck and it is an odd shape (i.e. not round). I was going to say "symmetrical", but that is not correct since an octagon barrel is symmetrical, but it wouldn't work in a 3-jaw chuck. A hexagonal barrel would work in a 3-jaw chuck though.

[GONRA]

GONRA suggestsusing this Small Engine Lathe to learn how to cut single point threads.
If you screw up, won't mess up more serious machine tools.
Do NOT purchase a more expensive lathe until
you are Really Confident you have mastered Basic Engine Lathe Skills!!!
Then you won't screw up a much more expensive piece of machinery.

Am sure others (Real Live Machinists) will have other "learning"suggestions too.....

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

I will throw out a learning suggestion. When you set up your work in the lathe, keep as little material sticking out of the chuck as you need. This will help keep your work as rigid as possible, especially when machining at the end of the work farthest away from the chuck. If you have to do reverse work (flipping the workpiece and machining the opposite side...sometimes called "B" side work), be sure you have a way to indicate the work so that all the work you do on the B side is concentric and parallel to the work you have performed on the A side (You should indicate on a surface that you have already machined). Turned diameters are good for dialing in concentricity and shoulders are good for dialing in perpendicularity. Sometimes this is overkill and simply using a 3 jaw and flipping your work is OK. But, there are times you have to keep both sides running true to eachother. A 4 jaw chuck is your friend.

[Taylor]

I have been looking at the HF minie as of late.I need a compression plug..which I can buy for $20.Can't seem to get a straight shank with my drill press and file.

Spend $500. to save $20. :roll:

[whistlersmother]

I got a HF 7x12 six months ago.

I did the captive ring thing in Al and turned some outside threads on steel.

I learned carbide is not my friend, especially for Al. Get the HSS and learn to grind your own tools.

Still having trouble parting off steel, but got a QC coming with a real parting tool.

I'm waiting for someone to ask me what I plan to use it for... I'm ready to say I'm making punch and die sets for turning pennies into Makarov j-words. When I told the kids that, they shrugged and went back to their electeonic gizmos.

Oh well, learning something completely new will keep me sharp.

Good turning with your new lathe.

[smokeywolf]

Continuing IllinoisCoyoteHunter's idea,,,

Plan your operations out so that as many operations as possible can be performed in one chucking.

Example: If O.D. and I.D. work is to be done on one end, do the O.D. work first, then without loosening the chuck or removing the stock, do the I.D. work. This ensures O.D. and I.D. features are concentric with one another.

Get yourself a 1 or 2 inch "dial travel indicator".

If you didn't get a live center with the lathe, you'll need one. Make sure the taper on tailstock tooling you procure matches your tailstock taper.

Keep a center or drill chuck in the tailstock taper at all times. This reduces the chance of stray dirt, chips and particulate from infiltrating your tailstock socket.

If you don't have them already, you'll need center drills, aka "combination drill & countersink". Numbers 1 thru 4 will get your started. Keo is a preferred brand.

[charlie b]

All good stuff. I sold off my 12x36 cause I wasn't using it much and got a HF instead. Used it a lot.

I liked the carbide insert systems for cutting bits along with a quick change tool post and/or turret. I also kept a few HSS bits around for special jobs, such as brass. I also ground some carbide bits for Al and brass (need a special grinding wheel).

A tool post grinder comes in handy too. You can make one from a dremel tool if you are careful with it.

[1066]

Here's a mine of information concerning mini lathes:
http://varmintal.com/alath.htm

http://www.mini-lathe.com/Default.htm

and if you though the mini lathes were not capable of fine work, just have a look at these examples, all made on mini lathes.
http://www.mini-lathe.com/Cabin_Fever_2001/CF01_sterling.htm

I'm a completely self taught metal scratcher and have a little Colchester Bantam (1960's) lathe and a Chinese hobby mill.
Just a few of my recent projects:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/allan1066/th_20160807_102223_zpsrfdleb7o.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/allan1066/media/20160807_102223_zpsrfdleb7o.jpg.html)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/allan1066/th_20160422_144147_zpst3zeomhc.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/allan1066/media/20160422_144147_zpst3zeomhc.jpg.html)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/allan1066/th_20151115_151049_zpskxn9owsy.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/allan1066/media/20151115_151049_zpskxn9owsy.jpg.html)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/allan1066/th_trigger%20shoe_zpsmcz4hdxq.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/allan1066/media/trigger%20shoe_zpsmcz4hdxq.jpg.html)

[kingstrider]

Looks good and I like how you think the machine will serve as a good starter unit until you graduate to something bigger. I am on my third lathe now, a late 40s South Bend 9A that is good enough for some stuff but still too small for other stuff. Once I have the room I'm going to get something with a 1.5" or greater spindle bore.

[Traffer]

1066, beautiful work. You have convinced me to get a mini lathe. I also do not have much room so the choice is obvious. I have been making swaging dies for 22lr with 2 drill presses, 2 dremels, files and other hand tools. I recently discovered (with my horizontal mounted drill press) that I can use a snap off blade knife like a woodworkers tool to actually cut the steel. (grade 8 bolts) I am working under 13X magnification not removing large amounts of steel. I use a dremel as a die grinder with cheap diamond grit tools from China for that, so a mini lathe is the ticket for me.

[country gent]

The small lathes see alot of use in most shops due to being lighter and less tiring on the tradesman. Our most used were a couple Hargringes ( 8X24s) that were very accurate and easy to use. There were several 16x 60s and one 36X120 ( this one got used very little due to the chore of moving carriage tail stock and tooling on it. The hardringes were light and did 80% of the work needed. A lot of tooling can be made on the lathe for the lathe. Stock up on HSS cobalt bits in various sizes. I have some that are 3/8 X 1/2" squrare 6" long, great for grinding boring bars out of. A bench grinder with coarse and fine wheel is all thats needed. A 8 0r 10" bench grinder with a 80 grit on one side and 120 grit on the other does a great job. A star dresser or norton stone to dress and sharpen true the wheel. When mounting a new wheel always ringtest it Hang it on a screw driver and lightly tap with another. It should ring a dull thud signifies a crack and damaged wheel. Never stand in front of a grinder whaile it "spins" up to speed. A small lathe can do alot of work and can be very handy.

[smokeywolf]

Great post country gent.:goodpost::drinks:

[NavyVet1959]

Well, I took my bench grinder over to my reloading shack last night and used the grinder wheel dressing tool that I had picked up over at HF on it to smooth and square up the face of the wheels. I've never faced the wheels and I've had that grinder for well over 20 years, so you can probably guess how rough and grooved it was.

I then reground one of the HF cutters by hand and shimmed it with a few more strips of beer can aluminum to try to get it centered. I took a spare hex head bolt and chucked it up in the lathe and tried to face the hex head. This is what I had tried to do previously, but it resulted in a flat face until I got about halfway to the center and then it slightly domed the remaining portion to the center. I'm not sure if that was just not having the cutting edge ground correctly or the fact that the cutting edge was too low. Whatever the reason, I now am getting a nice flat face all the way to the center. I'm still slightly off on center though since there is a very small nub left when I get through that is about the diameter of the shaft of a sewing pin. Looks like I need to cut another piece of aluminum for a shim. The cut was a LOT better after grinding the tool on the grinder. I'm thinking that there was not enough of a relief cut on the cutter and the non-cutting edge was just rubbing against the workpiece instead of the cutting edge actually cutting it. It's so small that it's difficult to see what is going on, even with a magnifying glass. Wish I had a small camera pointed at the cutter head and it displayed on a 24" monitor above the lathe. Old eyes suck...

[Traffer]

Sounds like you are having fun with your new set up. I haven't worked on a lathe in over 40 years but can still "see" the angle of the grind for a standard tool in my head. I have been contending with old eyes also. One thing that helps is to have lots and lots of LIGHT. It is amazing how much difference it makes to be able to see fine stuff. For over 20 years at thrift shops, been scooping up those drafting type lights that can be positioned just about any angle. I always have at least a couple of flexible lights that I can put right up to my work. I also have a bunch of cheap reading glasses. I use the 3.25 power and even double them up two pairs of glasses on at once. If that ain't enough I have a clip on 10X loupe. (eBay $4.) The new led lights are marvelous. I have been getting them from China but now they are available here. They are particularly good for the flexible lamps because they are generally light weight also. So far locally only been able to get up to 65 watt equivalent bulbs but they seem to be brighter than the 100 watt equivalent of those CFL types. Glad you are enjoying your new lathe and thanks for keeping us informed.

[smokeywolf]

NavyVet, when you dress your grinding wheel, be sure to check your tool rest to wheel clearance. If something jams between tool rest and wheel, you might have the misfortune of seeing what happens when a grinding wheel explodes.

[NavyVet1959]

NavyVet, when you dress your grinding wheel, be sure to check your tool rest to wheel clearance. If something jams between tool rest and wheel, you might have the misfortune of seeing what happens when a grinding wheel explodes.

Oh, I've had something get jammed between the tool rest and wheel before. It ripped it out of my hand and launched it away. Yeah, it tended to smart a bit on the fingers.

I just did this freehand though. The tool rest on my grinder is just some stamped piece of metal **** and would not be very accurate. I probably should build a solid tool rest for getting proper angles, but even freehand, it made a world of difference.

[Pavogrande]

Regarding a barrel in your griz -- I think you will find the bore of the chuck is even smaller than the spindle bore --
While i do not plan on doing any barrel work on mine I would use the 4 jaw chuck which has a larger bore -- With the steady rest and a spider i think i could chuck up a springfield barrel for threading or chamber -- just don't plan on doing that anymore --
I just bought one myself -- sold my 12" atlas and 7x10 hf when i moved and bought the griz when i got here -- i think it is a somewhat better buy than the equal hf model --
You will enjoy the griz, the quality is good, not like the "kits" sold in years past --
A qctp is a worthwhile investment -- saves all that shimming of the tool bit --
the hf qctp seems the best buy here -- though i have read the cut-off tool has to be used upside down --
my ha-penny

[joebill1]

For your grinding of lathe tools AND drills, a decent bench grinder can get you a long way, but you need a GOOD quality grinding wheel or two, plus a diamond dresser.

A white surface grinding wheel, 3/4" wide on one side of the grinder, 1/4" wide on the other, Alluminum Oxide, K hardness. 60 grit for the wide one, 80 grit for the narrow one.

OOPs, gotta go. I'll expand on the subject tomorrow.....Joe

[Traffer]

Would this be a good grinder?
http://wausau.craigslist.org/tls/5878595184.html

[sparky45]

You're joking, right? That's the buy of the day!!


Would this be a good grinder?
http://wausau.craigslist.org/tls/5878595184.html

[joebill1]

First a word of caution. Those white wheels cut fast and relatively cool, but they are not your grandaddy's gray general purpose wheels. They are easier to crack than those old-timey GP wheels, and my ALWAYS run inside of a guard. Do not let them get wet in cold weather, better yet, ever. If they retain water after they shut off, it will leak to the bottom of the wheel causing an imbalance that might break the wheel when it re-starts, and if it gets below freezing, it will crack the wheel from expansion.

With the grinder anchored, you can dress the narrow wheel to a point for things like sharpening saws or grinding split drill points, and if you have a steady hand when dressing, it's point will hold a zero radius for a long time.

For slow cutting with a high finish, use the diamond dresser to make a very smooth surface, gripping it tightly and moving it slowly across the face of the wheel. The wheel will grind smooth, then, and retain it's shape very well. For a faster grinding surface with a less fine finish, move the diamond quickly across the surface of the wheel. The wheel will then grind faster, lose it's shape quicker.

These wheels in K hardness will dull the grit on the surface and have to be re-dresseed by hand, as opposed to the general purpose wheels which will cast off the dull grit as it heats up. Part of the advantage of good wheels is that you can control the shape yourself.....Joe

[paul h]

Regarding a barrel in your griz -- I think you will find the bore of the chuck is even smaller than the spindle bore --
While i do not plan on doing any barrel work on mine I would use the 4 jaw chuck which has a larger bore -- With the steady rest and a spider i think i could chuck up a springfield barrel for threading or chamber -- just don't plan on doing that anymore --
I just bought one myself -- sold my 12" atlas and 7x10 hf when i moved and bought the griz when i got here -- i think it is a somewhat better buy than the equal hf model --
You will enjoy the griz, the quality is good, not like the "kits" sold in years past --
A qctp is a worthwhile investment -- saves all that shimming of the tool bit --
the hf qctp seems the best buy here -- though i have read the cut-off tool has to be used upside down --
my ha-penny

Yes, you'll want to get a 4" 4 jaw chuck for the little Grizzly, you also might want to run a reamer through the headstock to slightly increase the ID of the headstock for barrel work. Getting a 4" 3 jaw isn't a bad idea either for greater stock holding ability.

I used to have a picture of a barrel chucked up in my Grizzly cutting a new crown, but can't seem to find it.

My only gripe with my Grizzly is the backlash in the cross slide and lack of rigidity in the tool holder causes chatter on anything other than very light cuts. But you can do a lot of work on the little lathe provided you live within its capabilities.

[NavyVet1959]

Yes, you'll want to get a 4" 4 jaw chuck for the little Grizzly, you also might want to run a reamer through the headstock to slightly increase the ID of the headstock for barrel work. Getting a 4" 3 jaw isn't a bad idea either for greater stock holding ability.

I used to have a picture of a barrel chucked up in my Grizzly cutting a new crown, but can't seem to find it.

My only gripe with my Grizzly is the backlash in the cross slide and lack of rigidity in the tool holder causes chatter on anything other than very light cuts. But you can do a lot of work on the little lathe provided you live within its capabilities.

I decided to do a bit of a best with steel the other day and the only thing I had handy was a 1" black iron end cap (threaded 1" FNTP), so I decided to find out what it would look like if I machined it down to remove the threading and casting from it. I quickly discovered the limitation in the jaw capacity of the little lathe when I tried to put jaws around the entire piece. So, I put jaws inside the threaded area and machined the outside ridge and then the slightly reduced diameter of the regular sides of the end cap, removing the large ridge that went down the side of the main body of the end cap also. I then faced the outside of the end cap to give it flat surface. The a few angled cuts to approximate the original curve and finished it off with a file while the piece was turning to blend it all together into a curved end on it.

I then attempted to remove the interior screw threads. The chuck would not open up enough for the entire piece, so I ended up having to just grip the edge of the curved portion. This worked well enough other than for a few times when it came off the chuck and the cutting tool caught the spinning object. As you might suspect, this resulted in a couple of nicks in the outer surface that I could not remove without taking more metal off than I wanted to. So, I just rechucked it later and used a file to remove the high spots. Removing the casting in the end of the blind hole was a bit more difficult. I don't think that any of the tools that came with the set I bought were correct for that, but it didn't stop me from trying. It sure would be nice to have a small camera by the tool post pointing inside the hole so that I could see what I was doing. :)

It turned out ok -- basically it looked like a piece of machined steel and it was not readily apparent that I had started with a cast piece initially. I decided to see what it would look like if I oil blued it, so I washed it a few times with some dish washing detergent, heated it up, and dunked it in some fry oil. I did this twice and this is what it turned out looking like:

http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/machined-end-cap-320w.jpg

This is basically what it looked like prior to the machining:

https://mobileimages.lowes.com/product/converted/636660/636660708057.jpg

This made me think that the oil bluing might be a good decorative technique to use on bolt heads of bolts that are on my reloading bench. I figure that I just need to get a angle grinder with a wire brush to remove the zinc first. I tried it without doing that and the zinc kinda ended up with a yellow tint, so it probably became some sort of oxide.

[country gent]

I always sharpen the tool on the bench grinder to shape and relief then hone the edges sharp with a fine stone by hand. A few passes of a medium to fine hand stone on the cutting edges to hone them sharp makes a big improvement in finish and cutting. A little trick when setting tool center run the center in the tail stock out in front of the tool and use the point to see where the tool is at as to center. Or a center point can be chucked to do this on the head stock side. Quite a few tail stock spindles have a engraved line on them thats center height to set tools with also. If yours hasnt got one once tool is set to true center lock tail stock and spindle with about 1" or so past tool. just touch a piece of paper between tool and spindle. then move in .001-.002 a past and lightly score the line on the spindle to the desired depth with the tool point.

[NavyVet1959]

Went up to the scrap metal recycling center today to see what sort of scrap they might have that could be useful for me to practice on or for future projects. Found some 1" diameter aluminum round bars that were about 2' long, so I got 4 of them. Found a 1" diameter steel round bar that was about 12" long. Found a 1.5" diameter steel round bar that was about 2' long. I was talking with one of the older guys who worked there who said that he used to be a machinist and he said that I should have come by yesterday since they had some titanium. I would have liked to have gotten a small piece of it to see how it machines. I noticed a 55g drum with with some end mills and carbide cutters in it. These end mills looked to be about 1" in diameter and I could see where they were chipped on the end. He said he would sell me one of the small ones for $6. Are these things solid carbide or is just the cutting tip carbide? Would it be possible to grind them down and make some sort of inside single point threading tool or boring bar for the lathe?

Saw a piece of what looked like stainless that would be perfect for the receiver for the .50BMG barrel that I have. It was about 18" long and about 4-5" in diameter. My .50BMG barrel is 1-5/8" in diameter. I think that could hold any conceivable pressure that I might load in a .50BMG chamber. :)

[smokeywolf]

NavyVet, if you don't see an obvious cemented or brazed carbide chip at the end of each flute, and it's labeled carbide (on the shank), then it's solid carbide all the way back to and including the shank.

Without a bigger machine with lots of mass and rigidity, HSS/cobalt is a better a better choice for a cutter. When using carbide as a cutter, lack of rigidity in your machine or tool holder often results in chips along the cutting edge of your toolbit or endmill.

I'm a bit envious of the scrap raw stock you've found.

[NavyVet1959]

NavyVet, if you don't see an obvious cemented or brazed carbide chip at the end of each flute, and it's labeled carbide (on the shank), then it's solid carbide all the way back to and including the shank.

Without a bigger machine with lots of mass and rigidity, HSS/cobalt is a better a better choice for a cutter. When using carbide as a cutter, lack of rigidity in your machine or tool holder often results in chips along the cutting edge of your toolbit or endmill.

I'm a bit envious of the scrap raw stock you've found.

I don't have a mill, but I was thinking that maybe one of the carbide end mills could be ground down to something that might be useful.

Which scrap are you envious of? The steel and aluminum doesn't seem anything special. The steel is very rusted from sitting outside, but it is larger diameter than what I might actually need it for, so it's going to be cut down anyway. This recycle place does not have the best prices though. They charged $0.50 per pound for the steel and $1.50 per pound for the aluminum. With taxes, it came to slightly less than $19, IIRC. I also picked up a couple of rusted bolts that turned out to be about 5/8" and 3/4" in diameter. I figure that they will be about the right size for an experiment in making a Dillon Powder Funnel combined with a "M" die.

My normal steel supply place is a lot cheaper, but it's over near Houston-Hobby airport and once you factor in gas, it's not worth driving over there unless you know what you want and you need to buy a lot of it.

Some of the things that I stumbled across there, I had to kind of wonder what they originally came off of. There was this one large bucket of what I think was stainless steel rods that were about 3/8" in diameter with rounded ends. The rods were split about 2/3rds way along the length and one side was internally threaded and the other externally threaded so that they screwed together and just looked like a solid rod. The stainless was polished very shiny also. It looked like it might be a good find, but I just couldn't figure out anything that I could do with them. :)

It also looked like he had about a half of a 55g barrel of linotype. I didn't ask how much he wanted for it since I have a couple of 5g buckets of it already.

[smokeywolf]

When it comes to scrap, I'm a bit of a pack rat. I have a couple of crates of scrap material. Aluminum is pretty important as you can machine a piece of round stock into a mandrel to hold onto another part for machining. I have in the neighborhood of 2 dozen mandrels of different diameters.

The steels I find most useful are: 12L14, 4130, O1 (oil quench), A2 (air quench) and W1 (water quench)
Most useful plastic: PVC, Delrin, teflon
Pretty much any stainless and aluminum.

[paul h]

I don't have a good local scrap place so I've gone to looking on e-bay. I got a medium sized flat rate box of 1" diameter free machining steel cut offs from a screw machine a few years back that are 3-5" long and reasonably priced. They have been a great source for a variety of bushings, spacers etc. I'd planned on using them to make cylinders for small displacement engines, just haven't been that ambitious, yet.

[charlie b]

I love scrap yards. Used to have access to one that had tons of good 6061 and 7075 AL, bunches of steel in different types including stainless alloys. Got rid of it years ago when I moved. That stuff made a bunch of special tools for motorcycle and various other things.

Have fun with the new toy.

[country gent]

carbide needs a rigid machine vibration destroys the cutting edge quickly. Those cutters if long enough could be made into boring bars with a bench grinder. But you will need a different set of wheels to cut carbide effiently and cleanly. Used to be green silicon but those are now considered a hazard. We had a bench grinder with diamond wheels on it for sharpening lathe bits cemented and solid boring bars. Carbide is sharpened to different relief angles also. HSS with cobalt is easier and more forgiving to work with. Pick up an older machinists handbook ( probably from the 60s or so) and it will give alot of info on sharpening tooling and other info. Mines a 28th edition I believe and its from the early 80s.

[NavyVet1959]

I love scrap yards. Used to have access to one that had tons of good 6061 and 7075 AL, bunches of steel in different types including stainless alloys. Got rid of it years ago when I moved. That stuff made a bunch of special tools for motorcycle and various other things.

Have fun with the new toy.

I guess the problem I have is that I can't differentiate between most of different types of steels or aluminum. Most of this company's recycling business appears to be things like aluminum cans, air-conditioning compressors & heat exchangers, radiators, brass plumbing fixtures, and stainless steel sinks. They don't really take steel, but they have a couple of long time customers that they agreed to take it from many years ago and they continue to get a bit here and there from them. I go under the assumption that if the steel is rusty, then it is probably the lowest grade of cold rolled steel and if it is not rusty, it is probably a low grade of stainless steel. If it's not rusty and seems lightweight and silver colored, then it is probably a low grade of aluminum. Whether it is 2024 or 7075, I have no idea. But, it's not like the stuff I'm planning on starting working on is going to be that picky about the type of steel or aluminum. Maybe later I'll reach a stage where the type of steel or aluminum will make a difference for what I'm doing.

[izzyjoe]

When I go scrap shopping, I take a small magnet, and good file. The magnet will let you know if it's aluminum, steel,or stainless. And the file will verify the hardness of steel with quick pass across it. I used to go to engine rebuild shop and ask if I could dig through there scrap bin, you would be surprised what you can find, and most times they will just give away small amounts of stuff. Old exhaust valves can used to a lot of things, and they are hardened. They make great punches, and mandrels.

[NavyVet1959]

Two of the bolts that I got were *extremely* rusted and I remembered seeing a video on YouTube at one time about someone using a car battery charger along with a solution of water and calcium carbonate (Arm & Hammer Laundry Soda). Well, I didn't have any of the Arm & Hammer Laundry Soda, but I also remembered someone using vinegar (without electricity) to soak a part in for rust removal and since I did have some vinegar, I decided to try it with electricity. I figured that the laundry soda was just acting as an impurity to allow the electricity to more readily flow. So, I took a 32 oz plastic take-out container and filled it with some water and a oz or so of vinegar. Didn't want to go get my car battery charger, so I looked through my stock of old power supplies (that I've kept around, "just in case") and found an old Compaq power supply #2912 that was probably from an old Compaq Armada laptop. It had a 4-pin connector and a quick check with a multimeter allowed me to find a ground pin and a 13.9V pin. Supposedly, it's an 18.85 VDC 3.2A power supply, but that was not what my multimeter showed. Still, I figured that was good enough, so I took some very small gauge wire, stripped the ends, and put the ground wire to the part and the positive wire to a scrap steel rod that I happened to have handy. The part was hanging from a bamboo chopstick that was laying across the top of the plastic container so that the part would not touch the bottom. It didn't take long after plugging it in that it started generating bubbles. I checked on it every hour or so until I went to bed and I could tell that it was actually removing some of the rust, so I left it on overnight. When I checked on it this morning, all the rust was gone except for maybe a couple of dots about the size of the head of a pin on the inside of some of the threads. I figured that was good enough, so I washed it off. The solution in the 32 oz container had decreased about 1/2" in level and was now this very nasty looking dark rust color with foam on top. I slowly decanted it off into the sink so I see if there were any solid particles in the bottom. Quite a bit of very small metal flakes in the bottom.

In the end, it appears that the two bolts that I subjected to this experiment were galvanized. They definitely have that galvanized gray look to them. At least one of them appears to be a Grade 8 bolt from the head markings. I can't really tell on the other one due to the pitting that the corrosion did to it.

Whether this is a practical solution to something that you're going to machine down on a lathe anyway might be debatable, but it was interesting knowledge, none the less. Maybe one of these days I might actually find a *real* use for it. :)

It might be a useful technique for removing rust from a seriously rusted firearm that you were trying to restore. If it was badly rusted, I can see this at the very least being able to return to to "wall hanger" status, if not shooting status.

I'm currently trying another experiment with some fresh water and a dash of liquid dishwashing detergent. It it bubbling, so I guess that works also.

[rbuck351]

My 7x14 didn't have a carriage stop so I drilled and tapped a 1/4in hole through the carriage and put in a brass screw. This holds the carriage so it won't walk when you face cut something like flattening a bolt head. I now have a 10x 24 Atlas but will never give up the HF 7x14. It's just too handy sitting on the loading bench. Now that you have it you will find all manor of uses for it like making H&I dies or trimming cases using the lee case trimmer parts or making GC tools.

[Col4570]

Pick up any Scrap Steel you find,it may come in handy.Try a non descript Steel by slicing off a small piece,heating until red and quenching in cold water.If your file cuts it you probably have a Mild Steel,If the test piece Resists filing you have a High grade Steel.It is best to check for Brittleness by griping the piece in the Vice and trying to break it with your Hammer.Most Stainless Steel is non Magnetic and can usualy be identified by its clean look.Many good Tools can be made from Scrap Steel ie Pin Punches etc.Allen Screws make excellent Percussion Nipples and Firing Pins.When you get going with your Lathe the World is your Oyster.

[NavyVet1959]

The electro rust removal with dishwashing soap in water also worked, but it didn't seem to generate the bubble intensity as the vinegar.

For the next test, I tried salt and it seemed to have better bubble intensity than even the vinegar.

I don't really have a shortage of rusty bolts around here that I can use for test subjects. :)

Took one of the bolts that I had gotten from the scrap yard and started working it down to a constant diameter on the lathe today. Center-drilled it and then drilled a hole (via the lathe) down the center since this is an attempt at a Dillon powder funnel. Determined that I really should have worn my welding apron. My shirt had a nice streak of cutting oil and steel chips down the front of it.

[Traffer]

Several years ago when I did a little collecting of old silver coins. (Bought scrap silver coins on eBay) I tried cleaning silver coins that way. It works but it also migrates the silver to the opposite pole (Can't remember which is anode and cathode). This is a basic process of silver electro-plating. If you ever need to silver plate anything it seem pretty easy.

[NavyVet1959]

Several years ago when I did a little collecting of old silver coins. (Bought scrap silver coins on eBay) I tried cleaning silver coins that way. It works but it also migrates the silver to the opposite pole (Can't remember which is anode and cathode). This is a basic process of silver electro-plating. If you ever need to silver plate anything it seem pretty easy.

On all the YouTube videos that I see about this rust removal process, they claim that it automatically stops once the source surface runs out of rust, but I'm not so certain. It seemed to much like electroplating to me and if so, it could eventually continue until there was no more metal left in the piece that you were trying to remove the rust from.

[paul h]

Finally found the picture of a barrel chucked up in my 7X14 cutting a new crown. I made a cat's paw head for the tail end of the headstock.

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/evefiles/photo_albums/4/8/1/481101382/759103089_3B501D1223E782DA0F4898401F281D75.JPG

[smokeywolf]

Indicator looks to be an "Interapid". One of the best of the dial test indicators. "Compac" is the other brand that I've always counted on.

[NavyVet1959]

I've started experimenting on building a "M" type expander for my Dillon powder funnel. Each of the Dillon dies I measure are slightly different, but I suspect that there is a bit of manufacturing tolerance there and things don't have to be all that exact with respect to the groove near the powder entry portion of the powder funnel. It just mainly needs to be large enough to allow the set screw to go in there so that it won't fall out. If the set screw allows it to slide upwards a bit during each cycle, the main die body stops that, so it's probably not a big issue. The first experiment started out as a steel bolt that I removed the rust from with the electrolysis technique mentioned above. I had already turned it down to the diameter of the main body of the powder funnel before I realized that it was not as long as the powder funnel I was looking at. I also noticed that each of the powder funnels are different lengths. I've since this taken a few more measurements on other powder funnels. Here's some drawings with measurements.

http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/reloading-powder-funnels-01.gif

The dimensions on the "M" step for the Experiment #1 are preliminary. Since there is supposedly some spring-back of the brass, I suspect that I need to make it slightly larger in diameter. I need to take more measurements on both the Dillon powder funnels and the Lee Powder Through Expander Dies to determine what might be an acceptable value for the "M" step.

These images are upside down compared to how they would be installed in the press. I just round it more convenient to draw them that way.

[Pavogrande]

paul -- do you have a sketch of the cats paw you made for the 7x14?
Did you remove the lock nut to get more threads ?

hope this isn't hi jacking the thread

[paul h]

I don't have a sketch, happened to have some thick wall aluminum tubing of appropriate dimensions and went with a "looks about right" length. Yes, I did remove the lock nut to get additional threads and the cats paw becomes the lock nut. As I recall I used 1/4-28 cap screws.

[country gent]

You can tell alot about what gradeof material you have with a quick spark test on your bench grinder. Watch the sparks, there is a diffrence in spark between leaded steel, carbon, mild, and tool grades along with sttainlesses. Dosnt work for aluminum brass though. Cast Irons sparks are a small round ball. Cold rolled is a long sharp looking spark. This takes a lighttouch to the wheel as you want to see the individual sparks. This works really well if you have known samples to compare to your test piece.

[NavyVet1959]

You can tell alot about what gradeof material you have with a quick spark test on your bench grinder. Watch the sparks, there is a diffrence in spark between leaded steel, carbon, mild, and tool grades along with sttainlesses. Dosnt work for aluminum brass though. Cast Irons sparks are a small round ball. Cold rolled is a long sharp looking spark. This takes a lighttouch to the wheel as you want to see the individual sparks. This works really well if you have known samples to compare to your test piece.

I remember something about that from *many* decades ago back in high school welding class. Not that it would help me much when I'm rummaging around the scrap at a scrap yard to see what I can buy that might be under a bunch of rust. :)

[smokeywolf]

Love the titanium sparks.

[Pavogrande]

thanks paul

[NavyVet1959]

Well, I guess I finished my first Dillon powder funnel experiment. It's a bit short, but if I adjust the die all the way down, it will work. Not exactly as smooth as I would have liked. Maybe should have used a dead center to hold the end of it instead of just trying to hold the end of it while working on the far end. Was getting some vibration also, so maybe I need to reface some of the cutters. I'm not so certain about the factory angles on the HF cutting tools being right.

http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/dillon-powder-funnel-exp-1-640w.jpg

The bullets sit in there very nicely now and it makes it a lot easier to put them there than just using the flare that the Dillon powder funnel or the Lee Powder Through Expander Die does to the case.

[1066]

I recently made a plug expander die from scrap bits - quite pleased with the results.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTW20NzZ-OA

[country gent]

Stone a small radious on the cutting tools point so its not a shrap point the radious helps the feed lines to blend. a .010-.020 radious blending the angles really smooths the cut a lot.

[smokeywolf]

He's not even half way through his apprenticeship yet and you're giving away our secrets.:kidding:

[Traffer]

I watched a youtube about a guy making a shell holder out of a bolt. I have to confess. I am seething with envy. Always wanted to be a machinist. They wouldn't let me take machine shop in high school. I begged my counselor several times to let me take it. To no avail. I never thought that lathes, mills etc would ever come down enough in price that I could even consider getting one. And here I am now machining with dremels and cheap benchtop drill presses. But I turn green when I see someone using a lathe or mill. The guy on youtube had a mill making a shell holder. In my envy I posted. "I make those with a dremel. If I had a mill I would be making machine guns." Which is quite true. You know that you can make them if you have some basic machine shop tools. I also just watched a youtube on openbolt 22rf. They don't make them anymore because the ATF thinks they should be outlawed. Just for that I am going to build one...yes with a dremel.

[country gent]

Ive taught enough apprentices in my career as a tool and die maker its in my blood now. LOL.

[NavyVet1959]

Stone a small radious on the cutting tools point so its not a shrap point the radious helps the feed lines to blend. a .010-.020 radious blending the angles really smooths the cut a lot.

Thanks... I'll modify the cutting heads that way. It won't help Experiment #1, unless I decide that it needs another "thou" or so taken off, but it will help Experiment #2. I've already started on Experiment #2. It starts with yet another very rusty bolt that is of smaller diameter but is longer. So, I don't have as much to trim down the diameter.

Polishing question... Do you think that a piece of slate could act as a grinding / polishing stone for the piece of metal in a lathe? It's a fairly soft stone, so I was thinking that it *might* work.

[NavyVet1959]

I watched a youtube about a guy making a shell holder out of a bolt. I have to confess. I am seething with envy. Always wanted to be a machinist. They wouldn't let me take machine shop in high school. I begged my counselor several times to let me take it. To no avail. I never thought that lathes, mills etc would ever come down enough in price that I could even consider getting one. And here I am now machining with dremels and cheap benchtop drill presses. But I turn green when I see someone using a lathe or mill. The guy on youtube had a mill making a shell holder. In my envy I posted. "I make those with a dremel. If I had a mill I would be making machine guns." Which is quite true. You know that you can make them if you have some basic machine shop tools. I also just watched a youtube on openbolt 22rf. They don't make them anymore because the ATF thinks they should be outlawed. Just for that I am going to build one...yes with a dremel.

Just keep searching Craigslist... Maybe you will eventually stumble across one like I did...

I would have really preferred to have found one of the old Atlas lathes, but I guess this one is good enough for a start. It beats trying to do it with a drill press. :)

[smokeywolf]

Thanks... I'll modify the cutting heads that way. It won't help Experiment #1, unless I decide that it needs another "thou" or so taken off, but it will help Experiment #2. I've already started on Experiment #2. It starts with yet another very rusty bolt that is of smaller diameter but is longer. So, I don't have as much to trim down the diameter.

Polishing question... Do you think that a piece of slate could act as a grinding / polishing stone for the piece of metal in a lathe? It's a fairly soft stone, so I was thinking that it *might* work.

Typically, the only abrasive used in the lathe is abrasive coated or embedded cloth, paper or compounds. I've not experimented with stoning a spinning part in the lathe. However, experimentation is part of the learning process.

[paul h]

I would use a fine small Arkansas or similar stone for removing a small amount of metal on the lathe. For polishing I find a cleaning patch with a dab of polishing compound with the speed cranked up on the lathe does the trick.

[country gent]

The problem with a stone in the lathe is that unless you can keep it moving to a new area it "loads" up quick and stops cutting. Various grades of emery paper and rpms will polish quickly and easily.

[Moleman-]

Cut your part to about .001"-.002" over your final diameter and use emery tape. Make sure to cover the lathe ways to prevent the grit from getting on them and causing premature wear as the carriage moves back and forth. When I'm making chamber reamers that need to have a bright smooth finish I'll cut 1-2 thousands oversize and start with a diamond hone that is glued on a stick or one of the commercial ones that is glued on a plastic stick. You have to keep them moving as they do load up, but usually wipe pretty clean with just your finger. Work through from rough or medium to fine "grit". Once the surface looks pretty good switch to emery tape again with a backer of some sort. I use a piece of cut oak that's as wide as the emery tape. Measure your part often and polish it down to size. Sleeves up, no gloves and don't stand behind the backer stick so if it gets kicked back somehow it doesn't get you. I'd like to eventually make a tool post grinder, but so far this method has been working well for me. Here's a reamer blank before the flutes were cut that was profiled from some 5/8" drill rod using this process. Congrats on your lathe, They like to multiply. I started with a 9x20 and now have it and a 12"x36" and 13"x36".

[smokeywolf]

NavyVet, if you need a flat abrasive tool for polishing or breaking edges, I usually tear a piece of 400 wet-r-dry off a sheet and wrap it tightly around a parallel, piece of Starrett stock (flat ground steel) or a fine pitch file.

[NavyVet1959]

NavyVet, if you need a flat abrasive tool for polishing or breaking edges, I usually tear a piece of 400 wet-r-dry off a sheet and wrap it tightly around a parallel, piece of Starrett stock (flat ground steel) or a fine pitch file.

I was just trying to think outside the box. I have a lot more pieces of leftover slate and travertine around here than I have sandpaper. I have installed slate and travertine flooring in various parts of my house, so I have a lot of it left from pieces that were cut for fitting into certain areas. I cut it with a wet saw, so it's a pretty smooth and flat surface. I'm thinking that slate might be a bit soft though, but I'll give it a try the next time I get a chance.

[country gent]

Another trick when polishing. With the paper backed by a file of flat piece fill it with chalk. Side walk chalk works fine. It dries the paper and is a dry lube keeping it from loading and makes it cut smoother. Chalk also helps with files used on the lathe. Its a simple dry lube that keeps filings and material from plugging and sticking in the paper or file.

[Col4570]

Make a clapper Board,as follows:- Two pieces of flat timber joined at one end with a piece of leather belting,cut away some timber to form a pair of Handles,Double a piece of Emery Cloth and trap it between the two boards.This can be placed over the Job to be polished,spin the Lathe and grip the handles of your new Tool,squeeze the parts together and you have an excellent devise for polishing Shafts,Barrels etc.Finaly if you want Highly polished exchange the emery Cloth for Felt and apply some Metal Polish.

[Pavogrande]

col4570 -- an old time way that is still one of the best means of removing a small amount of stock --

[Col4570]

col4570 -- an old time way that is still one of the best means of removing a small amount of stock --
Yes,takes me back some 65 years to serving my time and amongst other maintainance work making large Steel Shafts and matching Brass Bearings in the Gas industry.The finer the finish the longer those mating surfaces lasted.I still use the polishing method on a smaller scale when doing Round Barrel work.

[smokeywolf]

Yes,takes me back some 65 years to serving my time and amongst other maintainance work making large Steel Shafts and matching Brass Bearings in the Gas industry.The finer the finish the longer those mating surfaces lasted.I still use the polishing method on a smaller scale when doing Round Barrel work.

We found a similar relationship with regard to metal surfaces exposed to caustic chemistry. When machining and polishing parts that would be used in or adjacent to caustic chemicals. Parts that had been hand polished followed by electro-polishing lasted considerably longer in a caustic environment.

[Buckshot]

...............For your new lathe, and lacking a milling machine Grizzly sells a milling attachment that bolts to your cross slide like this one below:

http://www.fototime.com/E5745333F6A7CCE/standard.jpg

Before I bought my milling machine I used this on my 11" Logan. The milling attachment was made by Palmgren. You cannot do heavy cuts, but you CAN do very nice work with one. Grizzley also sells tool post grinders to fit your lathe. The lathe is the 'King' of the machineshop, and the milling machine is the 'Queen'. They're kind of opposites. In the lathe the work spins and the tool is stationary (kinda). In the mill, the tool spins and the work is stationary (unless you bolt down a rotary table, or an indexing head.

So far as your cutting bit go, THE most important thing regardless how they're ground is that you have them on center with the work. Especially for parting work. If you're a bit low, as you pare the part down this centering becomes critical if you don't want the work to try to climb up on top of the work. They may really ruin your day, the tool and possibly your work. There are many good books out there. An excellent primer is the re-printed old South Bend book, "How to run a lathe".

Your small lathe is fine for smaller type work, and most of the gun accessory type work is within it's capacity.

http://www.fototime.com/58A19354BB6B873/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/ACD6BB2C9254EE3/standard.jpg

How about a brass button for a foreign leather sling, or making a firing pin for a 1884 Brazilian 11x42R Comblain carbine?

http://www.fototime.com/850688703938AEA/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/F62C8E623A0E906/standard.jpg

One of the very first things I ever made for someone else was a replacement cocking piece for an old Winchester semi auto 22 rifle?

http://www.fototime.com/12375D46A9E5AEF/standard.jpg

Possibly one of the most versatile objects you'll be able to make are unusual screws. You can't run to Home Depot for something like this. Seems like when most guys get their first lathe they spend considerable time making new tools for the lathe. One of the best things you can make would be a die holder to use in your tailstock, like below:

http://www.fototime.com/E6D55144DEF0585/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/50A882DF6A6564F/standard.jpg

For hex dies, get a suitable 1/2" drive socket. Heat it red hot and then let it set and slowly cool. Part it down and secure it in the round hole of the holder and secure it with a hex head setscrew (or 2). No need to set up completely for single pointing. Personally if the threads are 1/4" or smaller I cut them this way.

http://www.fototime.com/57FDCC442C1911E/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/270BFCD63A02CF7/standard.jpg

You can make some nifty reloading stuff. The above is a die body made for insert type neck sizing. I'd suggest you invest in a bunch of 7/8" 12L14 steel bar. It machines like cheddar cheese. I used to buy it off E-bay as 'drops' at first, but ended up going to 12' bars bought here locally. The insert itself can be a simple hi-carbon steel like W-1 or O-1 in case you want to harden it.

You can (or could) buy inexpensively on E-bay some very usefull stuff to use for tooling. One of the best (to me) for boring bars or making form tools and cutting tools were drill or reamer blanks. I haven't been there in years so I don't how it is currently.

...................Buckshot

[smokeywolf]

As usual, nice write-up Buckshot.

Like Buckshot I've bought lots of stuff from ebay, mostly tooling. Buy my raw stock locally.

I've ground cutters from broken taps, drills, old thread chasers for geometric die heads, inserts for hand expanding reamers.

[NavyVet1959]

I recently ordered a quick change tool post via Amazon. It was shipped via UPS and then USPS. Picked it up at the locked mailbox yesterday and all that was there was an empty bubble-wrap envelope without anything in it. The top looked like it had been ripped open (i.e. not cut). There was "received without contents" stamped on it in multiple places. OK, these things happen... Should be a way to report it on their website, right? No... They just ask you if the shipping container was too small or too large.

HOW DO I KNOW IF IT IS TOO SMALL OR TOO LARGE, THERE'S NOTHING IN IT !!!

Most companies would provide an easy way to report the issue and the company would send you a replacement. Amazon? No way... You wait a few hours for them to issue you a gift card for the original price, but it doesn't include the shipping. Apparently, if you place the order and pay for the shipping, they'll get back at you and give you a credit for shipping for your *next* order. At this point, I don't even know if I'll *ever* have a next order with them! This is not one of the items that a company working through Amazon ships out. It is coming from an actual Amazon shipping center.

Hell, I've had less trouble ordering stuff directly from China... :(

[smokeywolf]

You have to call Amazon. We went through this 3 days ago. Ordered a new practice drum pad for the 17 year old. Didn't show up when it was supposed to. Reordered, showed up next day. Day after that, original order showed up. Box was empty. Stamped, "received without contents". Mrs. smokeywolf called Amazon (I think you have to email or PM them on their website then they call you). They said, "no problem, we'll credit your account".

Don't know if this made any difference, we've done tens of thousands of dollars in business with Amazon, both as buyers and sellers.

[NavyVet1959]

You have to call Amazon. We went through this 3 days ago. Ordered a new practice drum pad for the 17 year old. Didn't show up when it was supposed to. Reordered, showed up next day. Day after that, original order showed up. Box was empty. Stamped, "received without contents". Mrs. smokeywolf called Amazon (I think you have to email or PM them on their website then they call you). They said, "no problem, we'll credit your account".

Don't know if this made any difference, we've done tens of thousands of dollars in business with Amazon, both as buyers and sellers.

Last person I spoke with was apparently from India or Pakistan and I had quite a bit of difficulty understanding them. The conversation ended with, "Well, whatever... I have no idea what you are trying to say. Goodbye!"

They should have a menu option:

Press 1 for English.
Press 2 for a native English speaker.
Press 3 for someone that speaks English that you can actually understand.

I've been waiting 6.5 hours for a callback that the original person said would happen within an hour. :(

[smokeywolf]

Got to agree with you on the phone menu.

Mrs. smokeywolf had a export business that relied heavily on a Amazon presence. Somehow she's always managed to get someone who can speak coherent English.

[NavyVet1959]

Got to agree with you on the phone menu.

Mrs. smokeywolf had a export business that relied heavily on a Amazon presence. Somehow she's always managed to get someone who can speak coherent English.

Well, the first person I spoke with, she was perfectly understandable. She said she would call me back within an hour after the refund gift card went through. After 3 hours, I called back and from then on, I never got anyone that spoke a version of English that I could understand.

[smokeywolf]

Have them send you a confirmation email that your account will be credited or they will re-ship.

[Buckshot]

.............You know, if you get someone you cannot understand, and believe you're calling a foreign call center, you can ask to speak to someone in the United States. If they are in the United States, you may ask for an native English speaker. Hearing in my left ear (I usually clamp the handset there with my left shoulder) isn't really what it should be. So then I'll switch to the right ear and ask them to repeat it. If that doesn't handle it I'll ask them to SPEAK UP! :-) Heck, I'm an old guy amd a, NOT trying to make points with anyone anymore, HA!

.................Buckshot

[NavyVet1959]

.............You know, if you get someone you cannot understand, and believe you're calling a foreign call center, you can ask to speak to someone in the United States. If they are in the United States, you may ask for an native English speaker. Hearing in my left ear (I usually clamp the handset there with my left shoulder) isn't really what it should be. So then I'll switch to the right ear and ask them to repeat it. If that doesn't handle it I'll ask them to SPEAK UP! :-) Heck, I'm an old guy amd a, NOT trying to make points with anyone anymore, HA!


With my luck, if I asked for a native English speaker, they would give be someone from Ireland or Scotland. Or maybe even worse -- someone from the Bronx or New Jersey... :)

[NavyVet1959]

Well, I got the quick change tool post in on Thursday. Amazon hasn't refunded me the $12 shipping yet, but the gift card they put on the account to cover the cost of reordering the item worked. I'll give it a few days to show up on my credit card as a credit. The shipping cost debit has already shown up.

Going to try installing the quick change tool post this evening.

[popper]

Just color me green - and if I had a place to put one - - I could move the wife's car outside?

[NavyVet1959]

Just color me green - and if I had a place to put one - - I could move the wife's car outside?

Going to depend on the lathe...

Some need more space ...

http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/lathe--lodge-and-shipley-22x120.jpg
(Lodge & Shipley 22x120)

... than others ...

http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/lathe--fay-and-scott-13x52.jpg
(Fay & Scott 13x52)

[Moleman-]

My old line shaft horizontal mill was converted to electric with the same gearbox that they used to convert that old lodge and Shipley lathe.

[Traffer]

That old machinery is artwork to me. To to think that they were working with that stuff before houses had electric lights...and they still function well now. It is just amazing.

[Wolfer]

188173
Someone converted my 1894 porter machine works with a model A transmission and an electric motor.
As I was contouring a barrel on it a few days ago it occurred to me that there was someone standing over this very lathe in the late 1800s

Bought it at a farm auction for $175 and have replaced the 10" 3 jaw with a cheap 8" 4 jaw.

[NavyVet1959]

Some of the ones that I saw on CraigsList looked like they had been sitting out in the weather for so many years that they were only worth whatever the scrap metal was worth. It's a shame when some people leave classic machinery out like that and let it get ruined.

[smokeywolf]

In the mid 1980s I was single pointing threads on titanium rod on a 1898 Hardinge Cataract Toolroom lathe. Was using the original follow rest too. Looked a little like that 13 X 52 cone drive lathe in the lower pic in post #110, but a might smaller.