Running a 220v line to a shop

[SciFiJim]

What I don't know about 220 volt electricity could easily kill me. I don't even know what questions to ask. I want to build a shop in my back yard and wire it for both 220 and 110 volts. I know that I want a sub panel for those lines. I want to bury the line in a conduit. I don't currently have a use for the 220 but want to build for future need. What amperage should I be looking for. I assume a 110 line would be a 20 amp circuit. My question is, can a 220 line be split to run 110 circuits, or do I have to run separate lines for that? What amperage would I need for the 220 line?

edit to add - While I may eventually hire it done, I want to know what is going on so that I will know that truth and can detect BS.

[lylejb]

Ok. This is actually easier than it sounds. 220 is actually 2 110v lines, running in opposite phases. You can think of phases of a.c. like waves on the ocean, in that it's a wave that goes up and down. The trick with 220.is that one wave is going up, as the other is going down. The resulting difference is twice as much as either one by it's self. 110 is simply 1 of these phases as the hot, and a neutral 0 volt wire. The first question you need to plan for is how many amps you want to plan for. Its always advisable to wire for more than you think you will need.

Fortunately, there's a sort of sweet spot, cost wise, at 100 amps. That's what I did in my shop. I needed to run a 220v air compressor, as well as the usual 110v lights and outlets, and quickly found that I could put in 100A service for less than a smaller panel.

here's what I went with for a panel http://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-Homeline-100-Amp-20-Space-40-Circuit-Indoor-Main-Plug-On-Neutral-Breaker-Load-Center-with-Cover-Value-Pack-HOM2040M100PCVP/204836397

This panel kit provides a main shut off breaker, so you can be sure its off if you need to add to, or work on equipment. it comes with a few breakers, and plenty of room for future circuits. Basiclly, you could wire a house with this panel.

I run a 100A breaker in the main panel http://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-Homeline-100-Amp-2-Pole-Circuit-Breaker-HOM2100CP/100156187

Then run 2-2-2 aluminum triple wire to the panel. It's sold by the foot at the local home depot, and its way less than copper. About $1.50 a foot, or so. Its rated for underground service entrance (USE) so it can be direct buried.I did use pvc conduit from the panel to the bottom of the trench on both ends. The 3 wires are phase (hot), phase (hot), and neutral.

For ground, I drove a ground rod at the shop.

This might seem like more than you need, but you can connect almost anything, and it worked out to be the best value for me.

Hope this helps.

[Ickisrulz]

I have run power to two out buildings from my house. The digging and cable running is the hard part of the process and you only want to do it once.

I ran 100 amps to a sub panel in my workshop. This has the typical wood working equipment and I have plenty of power. I can't see going any less than 100 amps.

From the sub panel you just run the circuits you need. They can be either 240 or 120 of varying amperage depending on what you need.

You will need cable. I got mine from "wire and cable your way" which is much cheaper than local places. I used mobile home feeder cable (2-2-2-4) which is aluminum, good for 100 amps and can be direct buried. You will also need a 100 amp circuit breaker for your houses' breaker box and then a panel for your outbuilding. You will need to ground the box in your shop (driving 2 rods into the ground and connecting them to the sub panel with copper wire) and then connect the 4 cables from your "sub panel" to your main breaker box. It's not hard, but can be physically demanding.

(By the way, from what I understand if you need to run more than one circuit to an out building, you have to have a sub panel. But why wouldn't you if you are doing all that digging?)

[Duckiller]

Yes you can split 220 into 2-110. YES, HIRE IT DONE! Couple of years ago I put a 220 line into my garage. Table saw works much better. Joiner has power. Problem is I only put in one 220 outlet. Have to swap power cords. Put in several 220 and 110 outlets. Plus you need lots of lights. Allow for a good vacuum. I added a 200amp box to a 1956 era box. Now I have central air and a 30 amp outlet for my trailer plus the garage.

[rancher1913]

hundred amp sub panel at the minimum, and depending on distance you may need a ground rod or may be able to run the ground back to your main panel, you will need a local electrician to tel you which your code requires. bury the wire in conduit, its cheep insurance against future encounters. you can ask your local building inspector what he recommends then you will know for sure what will work for code in your area.

[Hickory]

If you're running this line any distance 60-70 feet you might want to invest in larger gauge wire, especially if operating equipment drawing a lot of amps.

[Ickisrulz]

hundred amp sub panel at the minimum, and depending on distance you may need a ground rod or may be able to run the ground back to your main panel, you will need a local electrician to tel you which your code requires. bury the wire in conduit, its cheep insurance against future encounters. you can ask your local building inspector what he recommends then you will know for sure what will work for code in your area.

These days when you install a sub panel, you have to use both grounding rods and run a ground cable back to your main panel. The code books have changed in the last 15-20? years.

[Plate plinker]

What I don't know about 220 volt electricity could easily kill me. I don't even know what questions to ask. I want to build a shop in my back yard and wire it for both 220 and 110 volts. I know that I want a sub panel for those lines. I want to bury the line in a conduit. I don't currently have a use for the 220 but want to build for future need. What amperage should I be looking for. I assume a 110 line would be a 20 amp circuit. My question is, can a 220 line be split to run 110 circuits, or do I have to run separate lines for that? What amperage would I need for the 220 line?

edit to add - While I may eventually hire it done, I want to know what is going on so that I will know that truth and can detect BS.
Two important questions are:
1- How many feet away will the new building be from the service panel?
2- How many amps do you require? Total of your needs. (saw?smelter?vacuum?)

Thats where you should start out.
Myself I would go large since it cost more to do it twice.

[454PB]

When I wired my shop, I put in a 200 amp service. I didn't really need that much, but the difference in cost was only about $200.

[Sweetpea]

You have had some good advice, it is not hard to do, but it will kill you if you don't respect it.

Yes, you do need to put a ground rod in, since it is detached from the house.

You do not need a separate ground rod for a subpanel in the same structure.

[Pinsnscrews]

Aluminum Wire is not acceptable in many locations by the Building Codes, so check with yours if your outbuilding has to be inspected.

[warpspeed]

The main panel to your house should be 220 V. Most newer houses have 200 AMP main service.

If you run a sub panel from the main it too will be 220 V. 100 AMP should be fine. I run all kinds of stuff with a 100 AMP panel in the garage.

The 220 V plugs will be 220 V as a function of the circuit breaker, pulling 110 of each leg as described so eloquently by lylejb. IIRC, mine are all 20 amp but that's a function of the tools that plug into them.

If you have an electric dryer or stove it will have 30 or 50 amp plugs, both of which are different.

Oh, and hire someone to do it.

[MaryB]

I went 60 amps, heaviest use will be the air compressor, maybe a small flux core wire feed welder. Since I am the only one who works in there only one power tool will be running at a time. Run your 220 to a breaker panel that is grounded as mentioned then you can add circuits using appropriate breakers. 120 volt breakers only plug into one phase and only have space for one wire(as long as it isn't a double breaker but only need those if you run out of panel space), 220 volt breakers will plug into both phases and have space for 2 wires.

[GL49]

Some good advice, some may lead you astray if misinterpreted. Best advice I've seen is "hire it done". You may be able to work with a contractor, you provide the parts and the ditch to their specifications, they come in, pull and terminate the wire. You'll save some money, and still have a safe installation that meets the requirements of the NEC. Yes, I am an electrician, teach electrical school, and been doing so for quite some time. Texas is one of the better states to live in when seeking qualified electrical personnel.

[farmerjim]

Go big. You can never have too much power. I have 300 amps at the house and 200 at the barn.

[Ickisrulz]

Aluminum Wire is not acceptable in many locations by the Building Codes, so check with yours if your outbuilding has to be inspected.

The NEC allows aluminum feeder cable (vs branch wires which is not allowed). So unless a city or town has some weird regulations, aluminum feeder cable is fine and seems to be preferred due to the cost savings over copper.

[rancher1913]

the responses so far show why I suggested you get with your local building inspector and go with his recommendations, different areas of the country do things differently, not wrong, just different codes they follow.

some areas aluminum wire is forbidden, some its blessed. some areas forbid the ground rod at the sub because of the difference of potential, some don't care about it.

[lightman]

Retired Sparky here. You've been give lots of good advice. Probably the best was "hire it done". Its not rocket science but it does require a little knowledge in the electrical field. My advice is to add up what you plan to put in the shop, add a % to that, measure the distance and calculate the service size and wire size. I'll help you with the wire size calculations if you want.

My shop is only about 20 ft from my house and I feed it with a 100 amp circuit. I can run whatever I want without problems. For what its worth, I like copper much better than aluminum. And I spent a lifetime installing and maintaining aluminum. If distance does not cause the cost to be prohibitive I would go with copper, in conduit.

[owejia]

Underground aluminum wire is not run in conduit so it can transfer the heat generated by the electricity flow out into the soil to keep it cool.

[Ickisrulz]

Underground aluminum wire is not run in conduit so it can transfer the heat generated by the electricity flow out into the soil to keep it cool.

Aluminum feeder cable can be run in a conduit.

[Half Dog]

Lots of great advise. I would also recommend using PVC conduit where the cable enters the dirt. Helps protect the cable from weed eaters.

[lightman]

Underground aluminum wire can be run with or without conduit. I've run 1000's of feet of both, from 1/0 to 750mcm. Theres a small difference in the amp rating between direct burial and conduit. Conduit offers a layer of protection from foreign objects like tree roots, construction trash, rocks, ect.

[NavyVet1959]

If I'm burying electrical wire, I prefer to run it in conduit, even if it is approved for direct burial. Even some Sched-40 PVC pipe will work for this. The main thing is that I want something that I will hit with a shovel if I'm digging in the area at a later date and I want that something to be tough enough that I won't go directly into the wire. I also like to bury it deep enough that it is unlikely that I will ever be digging that deep later on. Some locales have regulations on how deep your underground wires need to be. I believe that it is at least 24" around here since I've never encountered any even though I was digging near where the electrical service came into my house.

[Ickisrulz]

If I'm burying electrical wire, I prefer to run it in conduit, even if it is approved for direct burial. Even some Sched-40 PVC pipe will work for this. The main thing is that I want something that I will hit with a shovel if I'm digging in the area at a later date and I want that something to be tough enough that I won't go directly into the wire. I also like to bury it deep enough that it is unlikely that I will ever be digging that deep later on. Some locales have regulations on how deep your underground wires need to be. I believe that it is at least 24" around here since I've never encountered any even though I was digging near where the electrical service came into my house.

The deeper the better. When the trench is open it is a good time to run a water line to the out building and anything else that might be needed (e.g., internet wires, cable TV wires).

[retread]

Underground aluminum wire is not run in conduit so it can transfer the heat generated by the electricity flow out into the soil to keep it cool.

Where I live it must be run in conduit and for good reason. Running in conduit decreases the chance of of physical harm to the wire plus new wire can be pulled through the conduit at a latter date if by chance your existing wire should fail for any reason. PVC conduit is cheap so go big in case you want to upgrade for more power at a latter date.

[AggieEE]

Here is something to consider. If your local community collage has a building trades department talk to them. If you're not time critical, They might do it as a practical exercise for the class. If nothing else most instructors are pretty good guys and would be willing to show you what to look out for. If you are truly a novice do try to get the collage to do it as a project. Even if you have to pay a licensed electrician think in terms of cost to replace the contends of your building. If you have a fire that is determined to be electrical in nature and you can't come up with a licensed name your insurance company is going to drop you faster than a hot potato and not pay out. Just my 2c.

[MUSTANG]

The deeper the better. When the trench is open it is a good time to run a water line to the out building and anything else that might be needed (e.g., internet wires, cable TV wires).


+ 1 on deeper is better, using conduit to pull cabling through, and comm's.

At our Kalispell house, previous owners had lived in a trailer for numerous years before building the house. Power lines were run from the trailer location to out buildings/barns, then some Southern Engineering (yeah I can say Southern Engineering as I grew up in Texas) used to tie it all together and back to Disconnect on Power Pole. Given the far below Code construction for the wiring to Barn/Outbuildings I have been digging up and redesigning/rerouting/rewiring power cabling over the last few years a little at a time. Cabling in places 3 inches underground, other 2 feet underground, threaded around football size rocks and larger boulders resulted in no idea what direction the cabling would go as I was digging it up. As I relocated, I buried everything in conduit (lessons chance of damage from digging and frost heaving). I used the tractor/backhoe to dig all cabling trenches a minimum of 24 inches deep, jackhammering larger boulders when needed and routing around PickUp size Boulders as required. This means that in the future as I or others go back in and do repairs/new construction/etc.. personal injury or damage is drastically reduced. I was literally continually mentally on edge as I dug up and replaced the previous wiring, never knowing what I might run into - not a situation a homeowner or construction person wants to be in. Do the job correctly up front so you and others will be safe in the future.

[DRat-TN]

+1 on lightman's input.

[SciFiJim]

The house is in escrow right now. I am still considering where to put the building. It will only be a storage and small workshop. Unfortunately, I have to deal with an HOA planning committee (it's where SWMBO wants to live). Thanks for the ideas. I am making notes.

[NavyVet1959]

The house is in escrow right now. I am still considering where to put the building. It will only be a storage and small workshop. Unfortunately, I have to deal with an HOA planning committee (it's where SWMBO wants to live). Thanks for the ideas. I am making notes.

I would say avoid anything controlled by HOAs. People who are on HOAs are losers who are unsuccessful in their professional lives and as such, want to get some feeling of power by controlling the lives of others (who are successful in their professional lives).

I tired to get a minor driveway addition added in front of my garage so that one vehicle could be pulled to the side while still allowing both sides of the garage to be open for vehicles to enter / exit it. This is an option that the original builder put on at least a couple of the lots in the neighborhood and my side yard is a LOT larger than theirs. The HOA Nazis would not approve it.

After Hurricane Ike, many of us lost fences. Some of us owned property bordering a greenspace / water retention pond and we liked the view, so we removed the debris and left it open. There were no rules requiring fences at that time, but the HOA Nazis decided to change the rules and not only require fences, but if you chose a wrought iron fence, they even specified the distances between the pickets. These HOA Nazis can change the rules whenever they want and the changes are not voted on by the entire neighborhood, just the losers who have noting better to do than try to inflict their personal will on others.

It's hard to believe that Texas allowed the creation of HOAs since they are the antithesis to everything that it means to truly be Texan.

If you want to be able to add a workshop to the property, get it in writing from the HOA that they will allow it before you buy the house. Be sure to specify the size, otherwise they might say that you can only put a 7 ft tall garden shed that will basically be just enough room to store your lawnmower and such.

[Petrol & Powder]

Lots of good advice here.

I see you're in Texas so I don't know what that mean in terms of soil but generally speaking conduit is preferred. I've done it with and without conduit (cost is the big factor there) but if I had a choice, I would use plastic conduit.

220 is simply 2 - 110 phases together. Seems a little complicated to someone without a lot of electrical knowledge but the explanation in post #2 was spot on.

Amperage - Well more is clearly better but there's the cost issue. I think 100 amps will serve you well unless you're running some serious equipment. 100 amp service for entire houses was common for a lot of years and many old houses still get by with that.

Aluminum wire vs. copper - I understand using aluminum wire for feeder cable up to the panel or sub-panel in another building. Copper is expensive for long runs of heavy gage wire. HOWEVER - I would NEVER use aluminum wire beyond the panel inside of a structure. It's not so much due to the wire itself (although I don't really trust it) but because of all of the connection issues with dissimilar metals. A buried aluminum wire in a conduit feeding a sub-panel in another building wouldn't bother me. But, aluminum wire past that panel would be unacceptable to me.

Ground Rod - Under NO circumstances should you wire another building without also installing a dedicated ground rod for that building. It is CHEAP, one time insurance. DO IT!

[chambers]

May want to check size of house panel( 200 AMP), believe the largest breaker installed to another subpanel is 50%( 100 amp), verify with electrician. Best thing to do is get a quote from electrician, it usually does not cost to get a quote and then you have piece of mind and will be installed correctly.

[Handloader109]

Well, if it were me,I'd NEVER buy where there's an HOA. I'd bet dollars to donuts,you can't put in an outbuilding! Or is you can, they've got so many restrictions you will forget about it!

Don't buy there!

[Petrol & Powder]

......................It's hard to believe that Texas allowed the creation of HOAs since they are the antithesis to everything that it means to truly be Texan.................


It's hard to believe people are dumb enough to sign those HOA contacts, covenants and deeds in the first place. But it's even harder to believe those same people whine about what they agreed to after the fact....:???:.........??

Contract law is a Bit**, isn't it ?

[MaryB]

Low voltage can't be in the same trench as a power cable. Plus you risk noise pickup onto the low voltage cable that will render it useless.


The deeper the better. When the trench is open it is a good time to run a water line to the out building and anything else that might be needed (e.g., internet wires, cable TV wires).

[NavyVet1959]

It's hard to believe people are dumb enough to sign those HOA contacts, covenants and deeds in the first place. But it's even harder to believe those same people whine about what they agreed to after the fact....:???:.........??

Contract law is a Bit**, isn't it ?

Well, my wife bought the house while I was working out of state for 6 months. Her only concern was the school district and being close to her relatives. And yeah, I'm going to bitch because *maybe* it will let someone else learn from our mistake.

We lived in a HOA neighborhood before that, but there were no dues, so the HOA didn't have any money. Without any money, they couldn't harass anyone. I think the only HOA rule was that your garage had to be attached to your house. And the "attached" definition was pretty loose -- it could just be a simple electrical wire running through the air from the house to the garage. People left each other alone and didn't care what you did with your property.

[Ickisrulz]

Low voltage can't be in the same trench as a power cable. Plus you risk noise pickup onto the low voltage cable that will render it useless.

Use different conduit and separate them with soil.

[Lloyd Smale]

I worked as a lineman and installed LOTS of underground cable. Not service wire, entrance wire. Direct burial is cheaper no doubt but if your in a frost zone or in rocky terrain things can wear on your wire and for my own entrance and all of my sevice underground I used conduit. You might loose a tad amound of ampacity due the fact that direct bury is in contact with the ground and tends to stay cooler but if you size your wire correctly its not an issue. Reliability and longevity are gained with conduit and the real nice thing is if it does go bad (and it occasionaly does) its easy to pull out the old and pull through new. Very important if your wire is buried where you have nice lawn or goes across driveways porches, or is in a spot where you or someone else might happen to be digging later ect. Most codes say 18 inch dept for service wire. Conduit is a REAL good idea if for some reason you go shallower then that. Bottom line is its a lot cheaper to buy conduit now then the plow in a whole new service 15 years from now.
If I'm burying electrical wire, I prefer to run it in conduit, even if it is approved for direct burial. Even some Sched-40 PVC pipe will work for this. The main thing is that I want something that I will hit with a shovel if I'm digging in the area at a later date and I want that something to be tough enough that I won't go directly into the wire. I also like to bury it deep enough that it is unlikely that I will ever be digging that deep later on. Some locales have regulations on how deep your underground wires need to be. I believe that it is at least 24" around here since I've never encountered any even though I was digging near where the electrical service came into my house.

[blackthorn]

Excellent advice from NavyVet1959 in post #30! Youcould not get me to live in a HOA controlled space period! Why in the world would I give someone the right to direct how I live?
NavyVet said :“People whoare on HOAs are losers who are unsuccessful in their professional lives (or were successful management jerks) and as such, want to get/keep some feeling of power bycontrolling the lives of others----".Just had to add the sarcasm for all theUnion haters here!

[NavyVet1959]

Excellent advice from NavyVet1959 in post #30! Youcould not get me to live in a HOA controlled space period! Why in the world would I give someone the right to direct how I live?

Unfortunately, we do that already with government. :(

HOA are just a micromanagement type of government. And we all know how bad micromanagement is... :)

[markshere2]

Use different conduit and separate them with soil.

This.

Go with a BIG conduit for the power wire. Too small a conduit makes replacement VERY hard, and holds heat.
My aluminum wire failed in a small conduit.

[jonp]

Put all buried electric line in a conduit whether you think you need it or not. You never know who will be digging a hole.

I think the National Code for UF Line is 24in. For line in conduit it's 18in. I looked this up when I wired my garage for lights and outlets. I did not run a subpanel but just ran a direct line off of my main with a 20A breaker as I'm just using it for LED lights, melting pot, table saw etc. Light usage. If your going to run a separate box for the garage, ground it with a copper rod which you can buy at Home Depot, Lowes etc. If you can't drive it straight in due to rocks or something ( I drove an 8ft rod with a sledge hammer through clay and it sucked) you can dig a trench and lay it horizontal. Look up grounding according to National Codes on the internet and it will explain this.

A better thing is to do as I did and marry a woman whose father is a Commercial/Industrial Electrician and ask him questions before you do stuff. Electricity is not hard if you read the basics and use your head but you do need to be double careful and check everything twice.

[NavyVet1959]

And adding a bit extra wire so that the conduit can be moved by roots and it not stress the wire would also be nice.

[HATCH]

This is something I know.
I built a 20x16 shop in my backyard. I have a HOA and they can be a PIA.
You need to get a copy of the HOA rules and regulations.
The HOA has a review board which consist of 3 people. One is the original builder who still owns a bunch of lots in here, one is the guy that designed a bunch of houses in here and the last guy is some retired guy that lives in the hood. I only ever dealt with the retired guy. He said the other guys wanted my pitch to be different (steeper). I can't remember the pitch but it was an additional $3000 from one estimate I had gotten.

My HOA says the outbuilding must match the house. So I have a brick house with vinyl trim.
They wanted me to use brick on the street side of the building. I could have vinyl siding on the other 3 sides.
I argued with the retired guy stating that there was a building 24x24 that was clearly seen from the road (3 sides of it) that had vinyl siding with a house that was brick like mine.
My building is in the very back of my lot and has woods around it. You can barely see it from the road in the warmer greener months.
He finally agreed.

Now, I live in the county not the city. A building permit wasn't required to build my building provided I didn't have power on it or water/sewer running to it.
I paid a contractor too build it but not finish the inside. Once built and dried in, I trenched the 70 feet from edge of house to building.

They make 2 types of wire.
URD which is direct burial and SER which is Service Entrance wire.
URD can be buried directly in the ground. It needs to be 24 inched by code.
SER has to be installed in conduit.
URD must be in conduit if it is not in the ground.

So this is what I did.
I trenched 24 inches deep from shop to house (70 feet)
I installed URD cable in the trench. I left enough wire inside shop to wire the panel and I left ten feet under house.
I put 6 inches of dirt back into the trench and then I ran a direct burial RG6 and ran 2 direct burial CAT 6 wires. I left PLENTY of wire on shop in and left plenty on house end.
None of it is in conduit. Its not required by code and it will last fine for the next 20 + years

Now on the house side. I placed a junction box (12x12x6) under house where the wire came in. I had a 3 inch PVC 90 from box to under ground where wires came.
I put all the wires thru this conduit.
I ran SER from this junction box to the main panel (well a sub panel because my main was full. I had to add a sub panel)
The SER is stapled to the floor supports under the house.
I used Polaris insulated connectors to make the spice from URD to SER. Make sure you put NOALOX grease on all the connections where ALUM wire is. Both in the splice and at the panels.

I drilled a hole in the bottom of the junction box and pulled the coax and ethernet cables out. I ran them to where they needed to go. Just stapled them to floor supports as well. *Keep staples loose so they don't pinch wire*

Run 100 amp service.
Air compressor is 30 amps max.
Mini-split is 20 amps
Master Caster is 10 amps

Its all over kill to be honest. Homes have 200 amp rated panels but most of the time you have less then 50 amps worth of **** running.

[Geezer in NH]

HIRE a Licensed Electrician. You get what you pay for on internet. The Electrician has insurance.

[Ickisrulz]

HIRE a Licensed Electrician. You get what you pay for on internet. The Electrician has insurance.

I would say casting bullets and loading them is more complicated than running cables for a sub panel. I took it that the OP was going to build the shop himself. If he can construct a building he can run some cables. It's just a matter of knowing how. The information is available--there are actual electrical books for these types of projects.

[HATCH]

I have a friend that owns his on electrical company.
What I ran (listed above) is exactly what he would of done and is in code.


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[lightman]

While most of us have mentioned or even recommended 100 amp services or even bigger, a smaller service could work ok on a home shop. A small sub panel and a 60 amp service will run a welding machine and/or an air compressor, some lights, hand tools or a casting pot and/or hot plate. Calculate the load of what you want to run and the distance and go from there.

I ran a 100amp service to my shop because I was in the electrical business at the time. Its wired in conduit too. Overkill? Probably! But I had the ways and the means and I wanted it to be adequate for the rest of my life.

[SciFiJim]

a welding machine and/or an air compressor, some lights, hand tools or a casting pot and/or hot plate.

This will be about the extent of my use. I am thinking of only a 10x15 shed anyway. As it is, I will have to consider placement carefully.

[daniel lawecki]

First off are you planning and running your out building off of your house service? Second how far from house to out building. And what do you plan on running in the out building. By this I mean saws, compressor, heat, ac outlets not a big issues the same thing goes for lighting. I have wire custom build house with 400 amp services shoot me a pm I will help you the best I can. This is what I've done since I was 18 now I'm sixty.

[NavyVet1959]

This will be about the extent of my use. I am thinking of only a 10x15 shed anyway. As it is, I will have to consider placement carefully.


Good luck... Some of the HOA Nazis won't allow something that large, regardless of whether it can be seen from the street. I've received letters from the HOA Nazis because I had my utility trailer on my back patio while I was working on it adding a new metal floor and rewiring it. There was no way that it was visible from the street, so the only way they could have seen it was to have trespassed on my property. They maintain that they have the right to enter your property to ensure that you meet the deed restrictions. I informed them that trespassing on other people's property is not necessarily that smart of a thing to do here in Texas and such actions have ended badly for those involved over the years.

[HATCH]

This will be about the extent of my use. I am thinking of only a 10x15 shed anyway. As it is, I will have to consider placement carefully.

[/COLOR]

A shed that small shouldn't require a permit.
I would still run 100 amp service if it wasn't that far away from the house.
Plan on installing the air compressor behind the building.with only 150 square feet, space is a premium inside the building.


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[Lloyd Smale]

code around here demands at least a 100 amp service to a building. Also if you do run conduit and are conserned with sticking to code or will have to have it inspected you need to run the grey electrical rated conduit.
While most of us have mentioned or even recommended 100 amp services or even bigger, a smaller service could work ok on a home shop. A small sub panel and a 60 amp service will run a welding machine and/or an air compressor, some lights, hand tools or a casting pot and/or hot plate. Calculate the load of what you want to run and the distance and go from there.

I ran a 100amp service to my shop because I was in the electrical business at the time. Its wired in conduit too. Overkill? Probably! But I had the ways and the means and I wanted it to be adequate for the rest of my life.

[jonp]

First off are you planning and running your out building off of your house service? Second how far from house to out building. And what do you plan on running in the out building. By this I mean saws, compressor, heat, ac outlets not a big issues the same thing goes for lighting. I have wire custom build house with 400 amp services shoot me a pm I will help you the best I can. This is what I've done since I was 18 now I'm sixty.

Not to be nosey but I will be anyways. What type of house did you wire that needed 400Amp service?

[NavyVet1959]

Depending upon the various easements, you might also be required to build a "non-permanent" building (i.e. one that does *not* have a concrete slab). With such "temporary" buildings if they are below a certain size and height, the HOA around here does not tend to get involved. Around here, the size that they allow is only 10x12 and the roof can be no higher than 8 ft. :(

Basically, read the deed restrictions and architectural control guidelines and assume that the HOA Nazis will interpret it in most strict manner in order to prevent you from doing any modifications on your property. They are one of the lowest forms of life on the planet -- very close to child molesters.

[HATCH]

In my hood a 10x15 building with a wood floor doesn't require HOA approval
Look at the restrictions or post a link and I can look at them.


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[Plate plinker]

Not to be nosey but I will be anyways. What type of house did you wire that needed 400Amp service?
You can bet it was a big one. Probably north of 5000 square feet.

[popper]

Normal home with AC requires 200A. Add a pool or hot tub, extra 100A and typically will be an extra pull fro the power pole. Make sure you balance the breakers on left and right sides of the panel. Aluminum wire had a nasty tendency to stress crack at bends. Copper coated Al. doesn't have as much problem. I'd go copper all the way. You're wiring the shed, that's OK but the mains have to be done by a licensed (master) electrician - else home insurance is voided. Wire gauge is estimated by temp rise at full load over the distance - size it right. Most cities now require a utility trace before any commercial digging gets done. You never really know what's down there. Next door neighbor put in a pool and they found several hundred feet of 4" irrigation pipe in a pile when they started digging. My guess, threw into stock tank then back filled the tank before sold to developers.

[jimlj]

The best advice you have been given here is to hire it done. If you don't know what you are doing the best that can happen is it might work. The worst that can happen is you kill someone. Then there is the pesky getting shocked and burning down things in between.

Since no one here actually knows what you are doing, even an electrician can't advise you on how to do the work safely. I have been an electrician for over 40 years. I have told people how to do their own work in the past, and later seen the actual work. It scares me so bad I wouldn't even think about telling a non electrician how to wire anything again, and I'm reluctant to tell some electricians how to.

If I tell you how to "run a 220" to your shop and you mess it up, I'll get a call from your (or your widows) insurance company.

[Ickisrulz]

After reading this thread and the truss thread I am thankful for two things. The first being that I live outside the city limits and can do whatever I want with my property--no permits and no inspections required. The second is that I don't have to deal with snow loads or heavy frost.

Everyone has to work within their own limitations. But home wiring is not that difficult to learn about and perform. I wouldn't take internet forums as gospel on the subject, but there are DIY books from reputable sources.

[NavyVet1959]

Next door neighbor put in a pool and they found several hundred feet of 4" irrigation pipe in a pile when they started digging. My guess, threw into stock tank then back filled the tank before sold to developers.

I've noticed that apparently the builders will sometimes just dump their construction waste in a hole on the property and then cover it up when they are through and put turf over it. It saves them money on waste disposal and means that they have to buy slightly less dirt for the property. Around here, the fields are flat prior to the subdivisions being put in, but afterwards, there is a few feet between the street level and the back edge of the property. They don't do this by digging the streets lower since that would just mean that the streets would flood more often. So, they have to build up the properties. That means that they either need to move dirt around or buy it.

[Plate plinker]

I've noticed that apparently the builders will sometimes just dump their construction waste in a hole on the property and then cover it up when they are through and put turf over it. It saves them money on waste disposal and means that they have to buy slightly less dirt for the property. Around here, the fields are flat prior to the subdivisions being put in, but afterwards, there is a few feet between the street level and the back edge of the property. They don't do this by digging the streets lower since that would just mean that the streets would flood more often. So, they have to build up the properties. That means that they either need to move dirt around or buy it.

Well if land is truly that flat the subdivision probably has to dig a massive drainage pond, that is where they get all that fill dirt. Been there done that.

[NavyVet1959]

Well if land is truly that flat the subdivision probably has to dig a massive drainage pond, that is where they get all that fill dirt. Been there done that.

These days, the cities around here often have rules stating that they need to provide a certain ratio of water retention ponds, but not too many years ago, that was not the case. Quite often it seems that the streets themselves acted as the "water retention ponds" since they always flooded whenever it rained. When you are in an area that probably only averages 1 ft of increase in elevation for every mile you get from the Gulf Coast, natural drainage can happen pretty slowly.