Lee fcd

[original]

I have tried the Lee FCD on my cast 40sw, 9mm and 357. I am using a Hornady LNL progressive press and when it get to the crimp stage the rounds seem to enter the FCD rough and the die seems to grab the round pretty good, nothing smooth about it at all. Are the Lee FCD not cast friendly for a bullets about .001 oversized from their jacketed brothers?

[Soundguy]

I'm using fcd on several cast loads, never had an issue. Made up nearly 60 35 REM for shuuting last weekend.

Is the boolit hanging, or the case dragging?

Have you sized the cases?

[Josh Smith]

I've found that some cases are thick enough that, when combined with the thou over with cast, allow the FCD to contact the case wall and safe swage the boolits too small.

Josh

[GRUMPA]

I'm wondering if the flare is to much, making the case mouth drag on the die on the way up.

[DougGuy]

OP if you want to pull one of your boolits after you use the FCD and mic it, you will see if the FCD is sizing it down or not. About the only time the FCD doesn't downsize a cast boolit is when it is pretty much the size of a factory j-word to start with.

The other thing to watch for with the FCD and this is CRITICAL with the 9mm and the 40, is that once applied, the boolit and the brass both have some "springback" in them so when they come out of the FCD, the case tension on the boolit can be drastically less, because the brass springs back farther than the cast boolit. You should do a push test and push the loaded round against the loading bench or other solid object and see if you can push the boolit deeper with your fingers. You should NOT be able to push it deeper into the case. If you can, there is the very real possibility that the momentum of the slide can set the boolit deeper by pushing it into the feed ramp and if this happens, it can cause a CATASTROPHIC over-pressure event. You can blow the gun up in your hands from even a tiny bit of setback.

For example, max SAAMI pressure for the 9mm is 35,000psi. Changing the COA as little as .010" can send pressures in excess of 60,000psi under the right conditions.

For this reason I won't use the FCD on auto pistol loads. When you have your loads assembled correctly, a taper crimp should be all that's needed to produce safe, accurate, and consistent loads.

[Soundguy]

Fcd on pistol rounds should be roll or taper? I thought lee collet fcd dies were only on bottleneck cases not the straight wall or taper cases. Has this changed?

[waco]

The Lee FCD is pistol calibers have a carbide ring in them. They are meant for jacketed bullets. If you size your cast .357 Mag boolits to .358"-.359" to fit your cylinder throats, once you run them through that die you are squeezing them down to .357"
The diameter of a jacketed bullet. Don't believe me? Run one through the die then pull the boolit and measure it using a mic, not calipers. That drag, or resistance your feeling is your boolit being sized down.

I took all my dies to work, chucked them up in a lathe and cut the carbide ring out. Problem solved.

[waco]

Fcd on pistol rounds should be roll or taper? I thought lee collet fcd dies were only on bottleneck cases not the straight wall or taper cases. Has this changed?

FCD for pistol and rifle cartridges are two completely different dies....The pistol dies have a carbide ring. No collet like the rifle dies.

[Soundguy]

FCD for pistol and rifle cartridges are two completely different dies....The pistol dies have a carbide ring. No collet like the rifle dies.

That's my point, they are different die types.

The carbide sizer ring will/can iron out bulging brass, but its not a collet system. ( that's what I was trying to get across ). Which is why I like fcd on bottleneck cases, but for straight/taper cases that get roll or taper 'crimps', I like the standard manufacturer provided dies.

Only guys I know that use the fcd on 'pistol' brass are 'glocked' cases, and those guys aren't loading cast anyway.

[dragon813gt]

The pistol caliber, non collet, are hit and miss. Sometimes the carbide rings are cast friendly. Other times they are not. I don't use the pistol style because they aren't needed. But this is another argument all together.

[Soundguy]

The pistol caliber, non collet, are hit and miss. Sometimes the carbide rings are cast friendly. Other times they are not. I don't use the pistol style because they aren't needed. But this is another argument all together.

Agree!

[DougGuy]

Actually there are a grand total of FOUR separate, different, Lee Factory Crimp Dies. There are the collet style FCD dies for rifle, there is the carbide ring style FCD for straight walled pistol cases both rimmed and rimless, there is a different carbide ring style FCD for straight wall pistol cases that has an adjuster in the top of the die, and there are also collet style FCD dies for straight wall pistol cases. These collet style FCD are usually uncataloged items and you really have to hunt for them. Lee made in them in runs for specific customers like Ranch Dog, and they were made in the popular magnum calibers, 357, 41, 44, and also 45 Colt. They are also offered for a lot of other straight walled cartridges such as the 450 Bushmaster. I suppose Lee will make them for the 480 Ruger and 500 S&W at some point if they don't already offer them.

In this thread, the OP is obviously referring to the carbide ring style of FCD. This is the only FCD that is notorious for sizing down boolits, and they are hit or miss, diameters of the carbide ring are inconsistent. You may get one that crimps a .452" cast boolit in a 45 ACP case perfectly without downsizing, the next one you buy may swage the boolit to .451" or even less depending on case wall thickness. The collet style FCD does not have any kind of sizer ring in the bottom, the collet closes in from the sides to form the crimp.

[Boolseye]

For my S&W m66 (.357), the fcd is a must. some of them take some pretty serious force, too, but you know what? I've pulled the boolits and they're still .358". With my autoloaders I tend to take the crimping plug out of the fcd and put it in the expander body, which I don't normally use because I have a lyman multi-expander. Then I get the crimp without the carbide ring sizing things down. If I get ftfs, I'll bring back the carbide.

[Soundguy]

Actually there are a grand total of THREE separate, different, Lee Factory Crimp Dies. There are the collet style FCD dies for rifle, there is the carbide ring style FCD for straight walled pistol cases both rimmed and rimless, and there are also collet style FCD dies for straight wall pistol cases. These collet style FCD are usually uncataloged items and you really have to hunt for them. Lee made in them in runs for specific customers like Ranch Dog, and they were made in the popular magnum calibers, 357, 41, 44, and also 45 Colt. They are also offered for a lot of other straight walled cartridges such as the 450 Bushmaster. I suppose Lee will make them for the 480 Ruger and 500 S&W at some point if they don't already offer them.

In this thread, the OP is obviously referring to the carbide ring style of FCD. This is the only FCD that is notorious for sizing down boolits, and they are hit or miss, diameters of the carbide ring are inconsistent. You may get one that crimps a .452" cast boolit in a 45 ACP case perfectly without downsizing, the next one you buy may swage the boolit to .451" or even less depending on case wall thickness. The collet style FCD does not have any kind of sizer ring in the bottom, the collet closes in from the sides to form the crimp.

Could you post some links to these uncataloged pisyol/straight wall collet fcd?

I've never seen them, but if available, there might be some I would try.

[dragon813gt]

They are cataloged. They used to be small runs but Lee started listing them all the time. They are available on their site.

[Beef15]

The Lee FCD is pistol calibers have a carbide ring in them. They are meant for jacketed bullets. If you size your cast .357 Mag boolits to .358"-.359" to fit your cylinder throats, once you run them through that die you are squeezing them down to .357"
The diameter of a jacketed bullet. Don't believe me? Run one through the die then pull the boolit and measure it using a mic, not calipers. That drag, or resistance your feeling is your boolit being sized down.

I took all my dies to work, chucked them up in a lathe and cut the carbide ring out. Problem solved.
You can just take a wooden dowel and drive the carbide ring out. Its just a snug press fit. And you can tap it back in later if you want, not sure how many times, but no need to cut it out.

[DougGuy]

Could you post some links to these uncataloged pisyol/straight wall collet fcd?

I've never seen them, but if available, there might be some I would try.

They work good for what they do. They are best used with heavy for caliber boolits and slow burning powder like H110/W296. They can also stand a bit of tweaking from how the factory die is shipped, here is a thread detailing how I like to do that and what it does: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?201449-Question-about-type-of-crimp-required&p=2239315&viewfull=1#post2239315

[rond]

Try adjusting your seating die to start the crimp. As stated earlier, I think your case mouth has too much of a bell to fit easily in the crimp die.

[Soundguy]

They work good for what they do. They are best used with heavy for caliber boolits and slow burning powder like H110/W296. They can also stand a bit of tweaking from how the factory die is shipped, here is a thread detailing how I like to do that and what it does: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?201449-Question-about-type-of-crimp-required&p=2239315&viewfull=1#post2239315


That was my thought as well, heavy/hot loads in taper crimp cases..

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Could you post some links to these uncataloged pisyol/straight wall collet fcd?

I've never seen them, but if available, there might be some I would try.
they have been listed on Lee's website, since about the time Ranch Dog quit offering his Lee custom stuff on his website.
http://leeprecision.com/lee-collet-style-crimp-die/

[dverna]

After doing a lot a reading, I decided not to add the Lee FCD to my procedure.

I see no advantage in loading pistol cases and potentially problems when using cast....and the bulk of my pistol shooting is with cast bullets. So why do It?

It may be valuable in some rifle applications using jacketed bullets.

Don Verna

[rsrocket1]

The Lee taper crimp die for autoloading pistol cartridges is a much better idea for cast bullets than the FCD. I size my 40 cal bullets to 0.401" and my 9mm to 0.358" and the FCD will swage the seated portion of the bullet down. That negates the whole idea of sizing the bullet to fit your barrel.

I do lightly flare the case mouth with the Lee PTX die so the bullets don't get shaved down during seating. This will cause a plunk problem with some brass so the taper crimp die will close the mouth to just beyond vertical and no more. Lee claims that you don't need the taper crimp die because all modern Lee seating dies have the taper crimp built into the body of the seating die. However, I prefer to seat and crimp in separate stages and I have an extra station open in my LnL AP so why not use it?

Look at the sizing ring at the bottom of the cutaway view of the handgun FCD (http://leeprecision.com/reloading-dies/hand-gun-dies/lee-carbide-factory-crimp-die/)

Lee taper crimp dies link (http://leeprecision.com/reloading-dies/hand-gun-dies/taper-crimp-die/)

[dkf]

The collet FCDs work well on pistol and rifle cases, I use them myself. The FCDs with the carbide ring work fine after you knock out out the carbide ring and smooth the sharp edges on the inside.(what I do with them)

[typz2slo]

I took a roll pin punch and removed the carbide ring out of my Lee FCD. It was sizing the boolit as it went in the die just as stated above.

[original]

Thanks for all of the replies. I will try and knock the carbide ring out and see how that works.

[Lloyd Smale]

9mms are where I use them. There just so susceptible to bulging the side of the case when not starting bullets perfectly straight loading progressively. Its not a target round anyway so I don't worry if I swage the bullet a tad. Truth be told even after a run through a full length crimp die they still shoots as well (or as bad) as factory ammo. I start at 358 so its still even if swadged down a bit big enough for most 9s. I have no need for a crimp in a rifle round. Ive loaded 10s of thousands of 223 and 308 for ars and have never had a bullet slip other then when using the real long 75s and 80s in the 5.56. Tried it and it did nothing either way to effect accuracy. Waste of time and the expense of a die imo.

[Gohon]

You can just take a wooden dowel and drive the carbide ring out. Its just a snug press fit. And you can tap it back in later if you want, not sure how many times, but no need to cut it out.

Easiest way is to remove adjustment stem from the die and drop a empty cartridge mouth first into the die. The rim of the brass will catch on the top portion of the ring and then you can easily drive it out with a dowel or metal punch. This method puts even pressure on the ring making it easy to punch out and lessens the chance of scratching the inside of the die.

[Soundguy]

Easiest way is to remove adjustment stem from the die and drop a empty cartridge mouth first into the die. The rim of the brass will catch on the top portion of the ring and then you can easily drive it out with a dowel or metal punch. This method puts even pressure on the ring making it easy to punch out and lessens the chance of scratching the inside of the die.

What adjustment stem are you talking about.. they aren't talking about a decap/resize die, but a fcd die with a sizer ring... they are hollow... up to the collet fingers., or if the non collet ones, up to the shoulder for the roll, or simply tapered , etc.

[Gohon]

What adjustment stem are you talking about.. they aren't talking about a decap/resize die, but a fcd die with a sizer ring... they are hollow... up to the collet fingers., or if the non collet ones, up to the shoulder for the roll, or simply tapered , etc.

The LFCD for the straight wall cartridges is either a roll crimp for such as the 357 mag or 45 Colt or it is a taper crimp for auto pistol rounds. These dies have a adjustment stem for the amount of crimp one desires and have a carbide ring in them. Only this year did Lee start producing a die that was of the collect type for straight wall cartridges but I doubt the OP has that one. I have both but my collect type dies were bought from Ranch Dog since Lee was not producing them at the time. Here is the normal LFCD sold by Lee... http://www.midwayusa.com/product/251707/lee-carbide-factory-crimp-die-38-special-357-magnum

[DougGuy]

The Carbide Factory Crimp Die features a carbide ring that sizes the cartridge while it is being crimped so every round will positively chamber freely with factory-like dependability. The adjusting screw quickly and easily sets the desired amount of crimp while a factory-like crimp is added to more firmly hold the bullet in place.

LOL so now we have a known identified separate 4th style of Lee FCD.. Had to go back and edit my previous post!


Actually there are a grand total of FOUR separate, different, Lee Factory Crimp Dies. There are the collet style FCD dies for rifle, there is the carbide ring style FCD for straight walled pistol cases both rimmed and rimless, there is a different carbide ring style FCD for straight wall pistol cases that has an adjuster in the top of the die, and there are also collet style FCD dies for straight wall pistol cases.

[Soundguy]

Yup, I've never seen the adjuster type either...

[Gohon]

LOL so now we have a known identified separate 4th style of Lee FCD.. Had to go back and edit my previous post!

I think you identified one type twice. I know of only three types of FCD's.
1 = Rifle Collect type for a bottle neck case, no carbide ring.
2 = Pistol/Revolver roll/taper type for straight wall case, with carbide ring.
3 = Pistol/Revolver special run or custom Collect type for straight wall cases, no carbide ring.

Lee identifies the dies with the carbide ring as a Carbide Factory Crimp Die and the other die as simply a Factory Crimp Die. Only once in the past have I seen Lee list a collect type factory crimp die for pistol/revolver straight wall cases and I suspect that was a over run from Ranch Dog closing shop. Looking today I could find none listed.

[dragon813gt]

The collet style for revolver cartridges are standard items. They are listed on the site right now. They've were available after RD closed shop but they were small runs and you had to get them while they had them.

I have not seen a non-collect FCD where you adjust the crimp w/ a stem. The crimp is adjusted by screwing in the die more.

[dkf]

My .44mag FCD has a sliding collar in it that applies the crimp. There is an aluminum knob on top that adjusts the amount of crimp by stopping the collar. Carbide ring is gone on that one too. It came with a carbide 4 die set I got as a gift Xmas of 14'.

[dragon813gt]

Amazing what you can learn when you read the instructions. I never use that die even though I have a bunch of them. They even show a nice cutaway of it on their site.

HANDGUN FCD

CARBIDE FACTORY CRIMP DIE

http://leeprecision.com/files/products/carbidefactorycrimp.jpg


SHORT BOTTLE NECK COLLET STYLE FCD
http://leeprecision.com/graphics/shoppingcart/bottleneckfcdie.jpg


COLLET STYLE CRIMP DIE
http://leeprecision.com/images/P/90969-01.jpg


RIFLE FCD

FACTORY CRIMP DIE
http://leeprecision.com/files/categories/RifleFactoryCrimpDie.jpg

They have a matrix at the bottom of this page w/ the dies that are available by cartridge. They are listed under two different columns; Factory Crimp Die & Collet Style Crimp Die: http://leeprecision.com/reloading-dies/hand-gun-dies/

[Soundguy]

Amazing what you can learn when you read the instructions.

IMHO, that's a slightly rude, uncalled for comment.

Many of us have never seen the 'short bottleneck collet style FCD' thus we've never seen the directions for it.

The arogance here is astounding.

[dragon813gt]

IMHO, that's a slightly rude, uncalled for comment.

Many of us have never seen the 'short bottleneck collet style FCD' thus we've never seen the directions for it.

The arogance here is astounding.

I find your post rude because my comment was about myself. After dkf posted about his 44mag dies I went to Lee's site and read the instructions. Feel free to apologize at your earliest convenience.

[Gohon]

I never use that die even though I have a bunch of them.

Dragon, I'm curious as to why you would own a bunch of these dies but never use them? With 357 mag and 45 Colt cast bullets I prefer a roll crimp if there is a crimp groove and the Lee die in my opinion is superior over a standard seating and crimping die. Especially when shooting in a lever action.

Lee's claim that if there is no crimp groove on lead bullets that the Carbide Factory Crimp die will make a crimp groove because the lead is soft is more or less bogus in my opinion. Sure it will form a sort of indented groove but that lead has to go somewhere and in my experience what one winds up with is a coke bottle shape bullet with 30 calibers and below. Having said that, it will work if one is ever so gentle with a very light crimp...just enough to hold the bullet from setback.

BTW...I took your post for what you said in that you had learned something. I would say though that the last picture you posted of short bottle neck FCD really belongs in the custom section as that really is what they are. Don't suspect you will find them on sites such as MidwayUSA, Cheaperthandirt or others. Could be wrong though.

[Tackleberry41]

The FCD are basically meant for jacketed bullets, just as all of Lee dies. The carbine ring in the pistol ones, doesnt do a whole lot when I load jacketed, you do notice it when trying to use it on cast. I have to go buy one of the NOE expanders for my 357, the lee set up swages down cast bullets. That and the factory lee is a bit short, it was only expanding the case maybe half the length of the bullet. Needless to say accuracy is horrible.

[dragon813gt]

The FCDs come w/ the four die pistol sets. I like tools in general and have a habit of buying the set w/ the most pieces. Who knows, one day I may want to use them.

I posted all the different styles on Lee's site so they were all listed in one place. I don't see the short bottle neck as custom because they're a cataloged item. Just because Midway or other retailers don't carry them doesn't make them a special order. Lee currently has limited numbers of the collet style crimp die in 357 Herret, 41 Rem Mag and 45 Blaser. Those are custom since it was a limited run.

[Soundguy]

I find your post rude because my comment was about myself. After dkf posted about his 44mag dies I went to Lee's site and read the instructions. Feel free to apologize at your earliest convenience.

There will be no apoligy.

If you would quote the post you are talking about.. it wouldn't leave readers wondering WHO you are replying to. Thus this sort of confusion. This boards software DOES include QUOTE capability. Using it reduces confusion.

[dragon813gt]

I'm not going to quote a post directly above my response. Since you won't apologize it seems you are the rude and arrogant one. Here is a little hint. It's not all about you. You apparently thought my post was about you. Learn to read all the posts in a thread and you won't have comprehension problems.

[Soundguy]

I'm not going to quote a post directly above my response. .

It helps clarity, and creates contextual links, thus preventing problems.

You Comment , in one context, looked rude. In another, it's a head slapping moment. Since there was no quote, there was no context.

Trying to rely on post positioning to direct replies is dicey at best. Posts can be deleted, which then changes who you are replying to, thus creating an out of context problem.

Also.. if someone types faster than you.. you could have your reply appear lower than expected if someone got their reply in first. If there is a quoted message linked, there is no problem.

[Gohon]

Just because Midway or other retailers don't carry them doesn't make them a special order.

Since they made a few for stock doesn't make them special order but they are from the custom order stock. Maybe that's why they charge the same price as a custom order die compared to standard dies. Could be they simply got tired of tooling up every now and then for the few that might order one and simply made up a few for stock. Really doesn't matter whether I or you consider then standard stock or extra custom order stock...they are what they are.