I like Tumble Lubing....but

[Rizzo]

My method is to tumble lube my cast bullets with Lee Liquid Alox, then size, then tumble lube again, then go through the loading process with my Lee Classic Turret Press.

After I set the seating depth (COAL) I check the COAL with a caliper and after awhile I've noticed the COAL changes to a shorter value.
I ultimately took the seating depth die apart and found it to have the LLA building up on the seating die. As it gets thicker, the COAL gets shorter.

Cleaning the die solves the problem....for awhile.
So, I started wiping the lube off of the tip of the bullets before setting it in the case prior to seating it.
The LLA method is an inexpensive method but I am now considering getting a rather "pricey" Lubri-Sizer device to eliminate my LLA headaches.

Any Tumble Lubers out there that have had this issue?...and have any tips to resolve the LLA buildup?
Thanks

[Maven]

I've experienced the same difficulties as you. Short of cleaning the seater stem and wiping the excess LLA from the bullet noses, I haven't found a permanent solution either. However, I now wipe the part of the seater stem which contacts the CB with either ATF or 2 Cycle Oil, which inhibits a rapid buildup of LLA.

[Ickisrulz]

The use of Ben's Liquid Lube has reduced the build up within my seating dies.

Other than that, you have to pull the seater die every few hundred and clean it if your getting build up from the lube.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I think the trick is, getting a thin coat, and letting it get thoroughly dry. repeat.
I don't use LLA striaght, so maybe what I'm saying isn't possible?

I use 45-45-10 and I apply it with heat, they are dry in 10 to 15 minutes...as the boolits cool. I haven't had any build-up in my seater die using that method.

[TMenezes]

I used to use LLA but encountered the same problems you are so I went to the lube portion of this site and learned about 45-45-10. It's the same concept as LLA but so much better. It's a mix of liquid alox, paste wax, and mineral spirits. And you can buy it ready made from LSstuff who is a user/contributer to this site.

Also I wouldn't use an alox lube before sizing. Just spray on some case lube or something. I've used hornady one shot, Dillon spray on case lube (which is just lanolin / alcohol 1 to 8 mix so it's easy to make) or even whatever cooking oil the wife had in the kitchen.

[mdi]

Several years ago I bought a Ranch Dog bullet mold and on his web site he mentioned he "dip lubes" with alox and 45-45-10. I started dip lubing (45-45-10) and the nose of the bullet keeps clean without constant wiping and no build up in the seating die...

[TMenezes]

Hand dipping sounds way to time intensive. I only have so much time to devote to reloading ever since the kids arrived. 45-45-10 is very quick and maximizes the amount of time I can load and shoot ammo. A thin layer (very important, do not over apply) goes on fast and dries hard. Leaving no stick residue on the bullet or your equipment.

http://lsstuff.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=47

[Bzcraig]

I took the exact same journey as you. I used 45-45-10 applied a thin coat, sized and recoated. The lube never got completely dry for me and I got tired of my hands getting lube on them while loading magazines. Instead of getting a lube sizer (I spent a lot of time reading in that forum and found there to be too many varibles for me) I went the route of powder coating. It is not any faster for me but is cleaner and the only varible is what color to use.

[runfiverun]

if you don't make the 45/45 lube correct it will stay soft and sticky.
mine dries to a hard coating like 22 lr lube.

[JWFilips]

I make it a point before loading the boolits; to rub the bases and noses over a naphtha dampened rag. Don't really want lube on the powder end or the seating stem end

[Yodogsandman]

You're using way too much Lee Liquid Lube if it gunks up your dies that fast. You want just a light, golden wash look to the boolits. Also, try cutting it with mineral spirits to help. The mineral spirits will help it to dry faster.

I use Ben's Liquid Lube now. It dries up completely in just a couple hours, with no stickiness.

[Shiloh]

Thin coats only. A little lube is all you need. To much LLA fouls the seater in short order. Just a little lube?? Runs pretty good and your stem cleaning is greatly reduced. Learned this years ago, and have NEVER had leading from to little lube.

Shiloh

[CASTER OF LEAD]

+1 for use of Ben's Liquid Lube. Love the stuff. Next venture is into the PC world. - CASTER

[waco]

Use 45-45-10 or BLL. Straight Alox is TOO thick. This is THREE coats of BLL!

[stu1ritter]

On my LnL press I just pop the seater and clean it with a stick, rag and lacquer thinner before a session. Takes about 30 seconds. Well, OK, maybe a minute.

Stu

[Rizzo]

Thanks for all of your input and tips.
I'll try thinning down the LLA and coating the seating stem with ATF or similar.
I'll see how that goes and perhaps try some of the other lube suggestions.

[Rizzo]

Use 45-45-10 or BLL. Straight Alox is TOO thick. This is THREE coats of BLL!

Thanks for the tip.
However, looking at your picture, the bullet lube grooves hardly show any lube in them.
I'm concerned about about.
I say that because if you look at a bullet that has been lubed by a lubra-sizer, the grooves are filled with lube.
Maybe your method is all we need? I don't know.

[waco]

What matters is the bearing surface is coated with the lube. It makes no difference with BLL that the lube groove is not full.

Using conventional lube in a lube sizer is a different animal. That is why boolits have lube grooves. That's where THAT lube is supposed to go. The lube along with a PROPERLY sized boolit provides a good seal against hot gas passing by the boolit and causing leading issues.

I have fired hundreds and hundreds of those wadcutter boolits with great accuracy and zero leading in my S&W 14-2

Waco

[rintinglen]

Ben's Liquid Lube and Recluse 45-45-10, and for that matter, Lee Liquid Alox, do not require a thick coat. Go lightly, when applying, Less is more in this case. The wadcutters depicted a few posts up are just about perfect. If properly fit to the gun, they will shoot up to 1100---maybe more--fps with little or no leading. I do have to occasionally clean my seating stems, but only after several hundred rounds are loaded. I usually clean at the start and then go until I get tired of pulling the crank on my 30 year old Dillon 450.

Like Waco, only more so, I have fired tens of thousands rounds, rifle and pistol, using nothing but LLA, 45-45-10 or BLL. Seldom has leading ever been an issue.

[waco]

I have shot BLL as a stand alone lube in my 30-30 at 2000fps with great accuracy and zero leading after 50 rounds. It is pretty amazing stuff.

[Digital Dan]

Dip lubing with Alox works fine if you have enough bullet nose to hang on to. It isn't any more time consuming overall than any other method.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/Sneezer/Ducks_zpscqr0rx5a.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/Sneezer/Ducks_zpscqr0rx5a.jpg.html)

[Tom W.]

Dip lubing worked for me, but finding a container deep enough was problematic.

[44man]

Only time I had poor accuracy and leading was TL. I hate Alox in any form. Even 50-50. Yes, I tried all of it. Might as well shoot a slingshot.
I am convinced Alox burns, smokes and stinks. Wax helps do the real work. .22 boolits have no Alox.
How can a skin of anything last the whole barrel?

[Tom W.]

Maybe because it goes really fast? :kidding:

[mdi]

I've used a cat food can with warmed 45-45-10 and alox to coat my 44 cal cast bullets. I figger if I don't have time to individually dip my bullets, I should just buy cast bullets already lubed (UGH!). No big deal, I use long nose pliers or huge tweezers to grab a bullet, dip, then set, base down, on a piece of alum. foil...

[Rizzo]

Only time I had poor accuracy and leading was TL. I hate Alox in any form. Even 50-50. Yes, I tried all of it. Might as well shoot a slingshot.
I am convinced Alox burns, smokes and stinks. Wax helps do the real work. .22 boolits have no Alox.
How can a skin of anything last the whole barrel?

I'm learning a lot here.
So, what is your method 44man?

[Shiloh]

Use 45-45-10 or BLL. Straight Alox is TOO thick. This is THREE coats of BLL!

Alox needs to be cut with mineral spirits 2:1 Alox/mineral spirits. I have cut it further and still got adequate lubrication.
45-45-10 is on my list to try. I hear nothing but good things.

Shiloh

[Phlier]

Alox needs to be cut with mineral spirits 2:1 Alox/mineral spirits. I have cut it further and still got adequate lubrication.
45-45-10 is on my list to try. I hear nothing but good things.

Shiloh

I've been having great success using 45/45/10 casting large quantities of 9mm blammo. I'm usually able to load up 500 rounds of ammo before having to clean the seating stem.

[44man]

I'm learning a lot here.
So, what is your method 44man?
I use Felix lube, even on TL boolits like Lee. I even made my molds with more GG's then found on store stuff. There are other good lubes too.
I use a lube-sizer if I have the right die but many times I stuff the grooves full with my fingers and run through a lee push through to remove excess lube.
I spent years testing lubes back to back for accuracy. The wrong lube for the application can double or triple groups without leading the bore.
Alox caused leading for me. I figure it is gone in one boolit length.

[Digital Dan]

Only time I had poor accuracy and leading was TL. I hate Alox in any form. Even 50-50. Yes, I tried all of it. Might as well shoot a slingshot.
I am convinced Alox burns, smokes and stinks. Wax helps do the real work. .22 boolits have no Alox.
How can a skin of anything last the whole barrel?

I'm not convinced........

http://i.imgur.com/jmQScof.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/upvGZ9n.jpg

50 yards, off the bag, first load series with that particular rifle. GC 311041, alloy runs about 12 BHN.

[dkf]

Only time I had poor accuracy and leading was TL. I hate Alox in any form. Even 50-50. Yes, I tried all of it. Might as well shoot a slingshot.
I am convinced Alox burns, smokes and stinks. Wax helps do the real work. .22 boolits have no Alox.
How can a skin of anything last the whole barrel?

I'm no fan of tumble lubing with alox either. I don't care about the smoke and the smell. The silvering of my barrels and leading is what I am concerned about. The silvering comes off easy but I get none it and zero leading with using my mix of BAC and Carnauba Red. I even pan lube bullets with tumble lube. I'm not shooting creampuff loads though, nor are they always max either.

[44man]

I believe in LUBE. I shot to 500 meters with better groups shown at 50. Yes, 547 yards.
I tried Ben's Red in revolvers, too slippery but it works just fine in a rifle. I will not go farther into it.
50 yard groups from a rifle should be one hole. You will never make me TL again. It is snot wiped on the coat arm.

[Soundguy]

To the OP, I think you are not letting your alox cure enough, after the second lubing, before seating.

I lube, size, re lube, and then let them set a couple weeks. They are fully cured, dried and ready to go.. no transfer to the seater. I clean my dies with silicone spray and wipe down.. no residue to attract dirt / dust, etc.

[44man]

I run out of boolits fast and cast what I need---WEEKS to load is not in the cards. Cure a fender rust junk that even fails on fenders is crazy. Who thought Alox was a boolit lube?
It does dry and salt gets under it to rot a car. You think it sticks to boolits! You think it softens fouling and keeps the bore clean. Step away and see what a gun can do.

[Soundguy]

Only time I had poor accuracy and leading was TL. I hate Alox in any form. Even 50-50. Yes, I tried all of it. Might as well shoot a slingshot.
I am convinced Alox burns, smokes and stinks. Wax helps do the real work. .22 boolits have no Alox.
How can a skin of anything last the whole barrel?

Go say that on a HTC or PC thread.... YOU WILL GET SOME FIGHTERS.

PS, remember there are micro grooves where the lube will collect too.

[Soundguy]

I run out of boolits fast and cast what I need---WEEKS to load is not in the cards. .

I see the big picture.. If I know I shoot 1000 rounds a week, then I cast enough AHEAD of time to handle my need. And get them prepped for when I need them.

If I know I'm going out shooting .44 ( .454 ) black powder balls with buddies all day. I don't wait till that morning to panic needing balls.. I cast them up weeks in advance for that day, etc, etc.

Last minute planning is for the birds...

Remember. Cast extra ahead and start the prep. Do batches.

You can cast the day you shoot, that's fine.. As long as weeks ago you were thinking the same, because those batches you did weeks ago, are cured now.

Waiting till the wind blows to buy hurricane supplies is too late!

[Digital Dan]

I believe in LUBE. I shot to 500 meters with better groups shown at 50. Yes, 547 yards.
I tried Ben's Red in revolvers, too slippery but it works just fine in a rifle. I will not go farther into it.
50 yard groups from a rifle should be one hole. You will never make me TL again. It is snot wiped on the coat arm.

You're right of course, it was a crappy group of only 1.067". I trust you didn't equal that at 500 meters with a lever action rifle?

Here's another short range group of 5 with snot lube...and a red dot sight. 50 yds is 5 times the distance I typically engage hogs at and probably it needs to have the windage tweaked a little. I'll try to do better.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/Sneezer/11216-4759_zpsnehni36m.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/Sneezer/11216-4759_zpsnehni36m.jpg.html)

[44man]

You're right of course, it was a crappy group of only 1.067". I trust you didn't equal that at 500 meters with a lever action rifle?

Here's another short range group of 5 with snot lube...and a red dot sight. 50 yds is 5 times the distance I typically engage hogs at and probably it needs to have the windage tweaked a little. I'll try to do better.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/Sneezer/11216-4759_zpsnehni36m.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/Sneezer/11216-4759_zpsnehni36m.jpg.html)
Now that is better. Some make the stuff work but I can't. There are to many variables so we never can match each other.
I can't make boolits from a bottom pour either. Yet many do.

[Digital Dan]

FWIW, dip lubing is simplified quite a bit by use of the following process.

Small container such as commonly used for pet food, plastic preferred due to the flat bottom. Place a bullet upright in the bottom, fill with your lube mix until it reaches desired height. Extract the bullet, light wipe of the bullet base on the edge and place on whatever material you prefer. I use wax paper. Dip the next bullet until contact with the bottom and repeat.

A helpful tool for some bullet designs it a piece of vinyl tube with a square clean end. A light amount of pressure on the bullet nose and the tube will grip the bullet sufficiently for the dip. A gentle squeeze above the bullet nose will release it.

I usually wait about 30 minutes and wipe each bullet base on a paper towel before the lube sets hard just to have a clean bullet base. YMMV.

Dippity-doo-dah...

[Soundguy]

.
I can't make boolits from a bottom pour either. Yet many do.

I love bottom pours, hate ladeling. ;)

[44man]

I love bottom pours, hate ladeling. ;)
See, my friends. We will never agree but are still friends. I accept your views and we differ. Some love cats and some love dogs. I love both but each is different. I wish a dog would use a litter pan! [smilie=1:

[Soundguy]

Agreed... Or self limit on feeding..

[44man]

My little one is in heat.Carol is complaining, should have got her fixed. NO, the way my little girl eats she would be a blob.
But I can not give her deer meat at all. She gets the poops. Beef and chicken, turkey is OK but not deer. No matter how it is cooked. Why is that?

[mdi]

Regarding alox; for some it's offensive, but it's been successfully used for much, much longer than I've been shooting/casting (started casting in' 88). I don't use it anymore, but a bunch still do...

[44man]

I never liked it. Then to see a fryer full of goose grease. Where in the world do they get enough goose fat? Takes a billion birds! Lanolin confuses me. How do they get it?

[Soundguy]

" Lanolin (from Latin lāna, ‘wool’, and oleum, ‘oil’), also called wool wax or wool grease, is a wax secreted by the sebaceous glands of wool-bearing animals. Lanolin used by humans comes from domestic sheep breeds that are raised specifically for their wool "

-wiki


Ps, its not a true fat, but a wax.