O3A3 cast bullet

[coalgeo]

I am a reborn caster (having been required by good 'ole Dad to cast when I was in school - no casting - no shooting was the rule) but have not cast bullets in 30 years. We cast all our handgun and M1 carbine bullets but never did so for O3A3's or my Remington 1903 - always purchased cast bullet for the rifles. Anyway, prices being what they are I have decided to cast my own .30 calibers. I am considering either the Lyman 311299 or the 311284. Shooting will primarily be 200 yard target shooting. Any suggestions? At over $50 for moulds I would like to avoid buying both. Will also probalby get a 311672 mould to have a lighter weight bullet for plinking.
Thanks

[David Wile]

Hey Coalgeo,

At one time, Lyman made a 150+ grain Loverin gas check design #311466 that has worked well in an lot of 30 caliber rifles in the past 40+ years. I do not think Lyman makes it any longer, but if you call Lyman they may be able to tell you who might still have it in their inventory. My mould is a double cavity and still works as well as when I bought it around 1960 or so.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

[docone31]

I have an 03-A3. I use the Lee 155gn, and 185gn mold. I prefer the 185gn for both long range, and "short" range targeting.
It is the mold for the Enfield .303, and casts at .3135. It takes a .30cal., gas check. I size it at .309, and it is great.
I use the Lee load data for the 30-06 for 4895 at the 200gn level. No key holes, reasonable groups, almost non existant leading. I make my lube and pan lube. I size with the Lee push through sizer at .309.
It is also comfortable to shoot. I single load so I do not crimp. I use water drop wheel weight.
All in all, not too bad.
I do plan to try some paper patching at .311 in the future. The two land rifling seems to like cast bullets.

[coalgeo]

Dave
I believe that you are correct in that the Loverin design is no longer available. I watched ebay for a while but none showed up. That is probably the bullet I would have gone with if available.

[Bass Ackward]

I am considering either the Lyman 311299 or the 311284. Shooting will primarily be 200 yard target shooting. Any suggestions? At over $50 for moulds I would like to avoid buying both. Will also probalby get a 311672 mould to have a lighter weight bullet for plinking. Thanks


The truth is there are two things we can't answer. One is what condition your throat is and what type of rifling you have. These are important although not critical as to which design would be better.

The second factor is regardless of which mold you decide on, whether the mold you purchase will have the dimensions you need to shoot it well. I have a 311284 that works. But it took me 3 tries to get one that would. The fast test is to stick one in the muzzle. IF it wiggles, I'd try another mold. Now that doesn't mean it will fit your throat, but that does make things more difficult.

I would watch ebay for a Loverin design as they come up quite often. Someone mentioned the 311466. Mine, a two groove, actually has always preferred the 311467 above all else and that is a descent, longer range design. I suspect that the reason is that the bullet is longer than the 311466 and I can reach farther forward with it to get alignment seating into the lands.

But the best thing to do about the options you mention, is to try them. You can ask some of the guys here to provide some samples and see how they work before trying. 15 or 20 ought to tell you fairly quick. I don't have any 311299s, but I do have some 311284s. " IF " you need a smaller diameter. (They will only partially size to .309 out of ACWW). The advantage to the 311299 is that you can actually purchase a 314299 which is a little bigger on the nose and just size the body down if you have a worn throat.

More to think about.

[sundog]

BA said, "The advantage to the 311299 is that you can actually purchase a 314299 which is a little bigger on the nose and just size the body down if you have a worn throat."


Even if the throat is not worn. Amen!

[Le Loup Solitaire]

Hi, A point to consider in choosing what boolit to use in the 03-A3 is whether the barrel is a 2 groove or a 4 groove. If it is a 2 groove then greater accuracy will be achieved with a design that has a shorter body and a longer "bore-riding" nose. (what is really meant here is "land-riding" nose). In 2 groove barrels, the lands take up most of the bore circumference and the lands will positively guide the nose (if it is of the proper diameter---at least .300-.301 or .302) But it is here that the trouble starts; originally Lyman #311334 was considered the best boolit to use and it was made with the proper dimensions, but dear Lyman discontinued it and if you can find one on E-bay, you will, after the usual urination contest, wind up paying a lot of $$$. They still manufacture #311332 which is a very similar design, but in their attempt to reduce the size of the ridiculously oversize monster that they were originally producing, (they reduced the bullet body section to .309-.310) they also reduced the nose section to anywhere from .297-.299. The result is a boolit that when fired, slumps into a tilted-off-the axis of the bore posture and exits the barrel in that condition and the grouping is pathetic. If the nose section is successfully enlarged to the correct diameter then the problem goes away. Lyman #311672 appears to be a similar and workable design, but the undersize nose condition has to be watched out for. Loverin designs will work well if you can find one, but again E-Bay can be tough going. Lyman 311284 is a good design; a bit heavy and it tends to work better in 4 groove barrels. Same for 311290, but again recent molds are all showing up with subdiameter noses. I have a Saeco mold #301 which casts its nose at .301 and is listed as casting at .309 in the body...wishful thinking; it drops em with WW at a whopping .312. Even when crushed down to .309 it still performs well. RCBS has two silhouette molds with the right design, one is around 165 grains and the other around 200 and they might be worth a try. Lee produces a number of 30 caliber boolits of varying weights that have boolit bodies that do not seem to exceed the halfway mark and these should shoot well. If your A3 or other 30 cal rifles have 4 grooves then you will do better with designs that have longer boolit bodies that are half the overall length or more. Those styles usually have lube grooves exposed ahead of the case neck. Some folks don't like that, some people don't mind. In any case (no pun intended) considering the boolit design factor may make the difference for you. Good luck & shooting. LLS

[LAcaster]

I found and got a old ideal mold #133414 on Egay its a GC design at about 150gr shoots great in my 03 about 1moa at 100yds

[floodgate]

LAcaster:

Did you mis-type that for #311414? That one is a 150-gr. Spitzer Gas-Check design originally made for the .300 Savage. VERY short bearing surface, and requires even more care for alignment than the 169-gr. #311413. Glad you're getting good results with it.

Floodgate

[coalgeo]

Many thanks for the information. By chance, both my Remington O3A3 and Remington 03 have four-groove barrels. Throat erosion is nill on both rifles (the 03 was rebarelled with a HS barrel) althought that may have little to do with the throats as they wre cut. I think I may hold off for awhile to see if I can pick up a Loverin design bullet on either Ebay or GunBroker.

[Bass Ackward]

Throat erosion is nill on both rifles (the 03 was rebarelled with a HS barrel) althought that may have little to do with the throats as they wre cut. I think I may hold off for awhile to see if I can pick up a Loverin design bullet on either Ebay or GunBroker.


If you want to get excited while you wait, take a look at #60 on page 5.

http://www.neihandtools.com/catalog.html

[LAcaster]

floodgate: that is correct I'm pushing it with 16grs. 2400 and it shoots great fun to shoot to very little recoil and low cost per load

[bobk]

Bass,
You're right, that is a nice looking bullet. Looks an awful lot like a potential group buy bullet, doncha think?
Bob K

[Bass Ackward]

Bass,
You're right, that is a nice looking bullet. Looks an awful lot like a potential group buy bullet, doncha think? Bob K


Bob,

All depends on your throat. If you want to see a nice group buy bullet that has already been done, search for 311407.

But Mr CG sounds like he is anxious to get into the game and he probably has standard throats if his stuff has been re-chambered. That was just to give him ideas. :grin:

If I was him, I would slug and see what I have to work with first. Cause the best "lookin" slug to me, is one that will fit my throat enough to provide good alignment. :grin:

The only way to know that is to slug.

[4thebrdz]

Shootin a steel 12" Gong @ 200yds- I use the Lyman #311299 that I "Beagled" just a bit to help drop the casts. I water drop them. I size them to .310 and lube with Rooster Red. My load is 17gr of 2400. Crimped just below the Driving band.

With my '03 I hit the gong every time. It has the ladder sight which I set the peep to 800 yds. Lots of fun. No leading at all. My bore is in great condition.

Others with 03A3 and vintage 1917 (cut out for the Pederson device) have the same good fortune as I.

[epj]

Many years ago, I had a Remington 03-A3. I used a 172 gr. GC bullet from Lyman that I believe was intended for 30-30 use. It was a RNFP design. I cast these from straight linotype and it was very accurate in the old 03-A3.

[Will]

I like the 311291 and the 311284. The 311284 with 40gr 4831 makes a good dear load for brush country.

[coalgeo]

Bass Ackward - I have slugged both rifles - the O3A3 with it's original barrel came out at .3085. The Remington O3 with the HS barrel slugged out at .309. I have never done a chamber cast in any of my rifles though.

As I said both showed throat erosion of less than 1. While they obvious were not shot much we still do not know how deep they were chambered during the reaming process. I think - will a "deeply reamed" chamber show a higher number on the throat erosion guage?
Greg

[Bass Ackward]

Bass Ackward - I have slugged both rifles - the O3A3 with it's original barrel came out at .3085. The Remington O3 with the HS barrel slugged out at .309. I have never done a chamber cast in any of my rifles though.

As I said both showed throat erosion of less than 1. While they obvious were not shot much we still do not know how deep they were chambered during the reaming process. I think - will a "deeply reamed" chamber show a higher number on the throat erosion guage?
Greg


I would say yes. But it really depends on the chamber reamer. You can have a big chamber dimension with a short throat. The throat / neck configuration is critical to determining bullet selection. I keep this slug until I do the next one. And I do them about every 500 rounds for rifles. (My quirk) Especially when rifles are new as throats will wear rapidly as they clean up and then they will stabilize.

I slug three times for each process though.. First to establish the critical dimensions in the chamber / throat area. Then I slug one all the way through to record the absolute smallest bore measurement. Then the last is the muzzle only and I drive it back out.

What this tells me is A. what I need to do to fit a bullets initially. Then it answers if B. I am over bore dimensions when I do this. And the third slug tells me if my muzzle diameter is equal to or smaller than the rest of the bore. If you have a flair at the muzzle, (most military men were taught to clean that way in those days) you will always have difficulty attaining maximum accuracy results. The smallest dimension (or equal to the smnallest) needs to be the muzzle.

Except for determining if the muzzle is the smallest dimension, the throat chamber slug is the most important. Keep this always as it helps with seating jacketed as well.