Lube vs Paper Path vs Powder Coat: velocity and accuracy

[pastorcurtis]

FYI...

This was a science project for my 3rd grader. Hurrah for private Lutheran schools where you can still talk about guns!

We'll probably go out and shoot from a better rest at a longer distance at a later time, but I don't think the overall ranking of the various lubrication methods in regard to accuracy is likely to change. Powder coating is the big winner!

Pastor Curtis

Cartridge: 357 Magnum
Rifle: Rossi 92, 20" barrel, buckhorn sights
Chronograph: Caldwell cheapy (five shots)
Distance to Chrono: 12 ft
Weather: 40 degrees F
Target distance for groups: 25 yards, sitting on a bucket with bipod rest (five shots)
Bullet: Penn's LTC 158 grains
Sized: All bullets sized to .360 before loading
Powder: H110
Charge: 17.1 grains
Crimp: 3/4 turn with Lee dies and in the groove
Brass: matched for length
Primer: Federal SPM

Lubed Bullets (pan lubed with 60% Beeswax/40% Vaseline)
Ave FPS: 1849
Group Size: 2.276"

Paper Patch (mailing labels, one wrap)
Ave FPS: 1875
Group Size: 2.853"

Powder Coat (Eastwood's "Light Blue Ford", shake and bake)
Ave FPS: 1833
Group Size: 0.880"

[bonus data: Lee 358-158-RF cast at 12 BHN, 163 grains, same powder coat as above: Ave FPS: 1810, Group Size: 0.968")

[FredBuddy]

Good work!

[Yodogsandman]

I'm skeptical of the results. Still, good to get the kids involved! Good job on that!

Why exactly use 17.1 gr H110? Was this load worked up before hand for one of the lubrication methods? Or the crimp depth for that matter? Same C.O.A.L.? Just one 5 shot group?

[Wayne Smith]

Sample size? How many shots per sample? Can't do statistics without that.

[popper]

Very good science project for kids. Scientific principles, not just build a tinker toy robot or something cheesy. Good work. Not a Military development project. Yes you can teach basics of statistics from ES & SD - the reason for the numbers. They get the idea and the number crunching is easy.

[paul h]

Great science project. The purpose of the projects is to teach the students the scientific method and how frame a question and come up with an experiment to try and answer the question. Yes, to be statistically relevant much more in depth testing would be required.

Years ago I did a head to head test of alox, rcbs green, lithi-bee and lbt blue. Same cast bullet and load and as I recall at 25 yds with a handgun (scoped off the bench) the rcbs green grouped 4", the alox 2" and the lithi-bee and lbt blue 1". So yes, lubes can have a significant effect on accuracy.

[Traffer]

I wish I woulda had a school like that to go to when I was a kid. Great training. Teaches them that they can do their own experiments, develop their own desires and shows them that they can reach real solutions even as kids. Good Job. I am curious though about the potential results because of the difference in "slipperiness" of the powder coated bullet, I would think that it could be oversized compared to the others and thus give a higher velocity result. The Kids need to know that stuff. lol

[bkbville]

ideally wouldn't it be better to keep constant the FPS per lube group instead of the charge? e.g. perhaps the 1933fps is sweet no matter the lube?

As far as the stats, any spreadsheet will be able to do std-dev etc.

[popper]

It's the WHY of ES & SD concept that you teach, yes anybody can do the math. Learning to think is something else we don't see too often.

[gwpercle]

Great science project. The purpose of the projects is to teach the students the scientific method and how frame a question and come up with an experiment to try and answer the question. Yes, to be statistically relevant much more in depth testing would be required.

Years ago I did a head to head test of alox, rcbs green, lithi-bee and lbt blue. Same cast bullet and load and as I recall at 25 yds with a handgun (scoped off the bench) the rcbs green grouped 4", the alox 2" and the lithi-bee and lbt blue 1". So yes, lubes can have a significant effect on accuracy.

I discovered Lithi-bee in 1978 , Garth Choate sold it in the American Rifleman (40 sticks for $20,00) I have tried every commercial brand that came along over the years and to this day have found nothing better than that lithium and beeswax lube in cast boolit handgun loads.
I agree , lube can make a big difference. Interesting how your test showed alox/beeswax wasn't the top dog. Garth made both alox/beeswax and lithium /beeswax....I asked him to send me the lube that he thought was best and he sent me the lithi-bee.
I've never had a leading problem in any handgun with it. He was nice enough to give me the recipe after he stopped making lube, so now I can make my own.
Lithium believer ....Gary

[Digital Dan]

Pastor Curtis, it is a good thing you did there for the lad, but a suggestion if you don't mind? Apples are best compared to apples, and oranges to oranges. If one wants to truly explore the merits of different lube styles and/or paper patch bullets, it is best they be done properly.

100 yards, offhand, .38-55 Win:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/Black%20Powder/10-26-162010020yds_zpsoofn7jbg.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/Black%20Powder/10-26-162010020yds_zpsoofn7jbg.jpg.html)

50 yards, ALOX:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/Sneezer/IMG_4710_zpsjeccglz5.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/Sneezer/IMG_4710_zpsjeccglz5.jpg.html)

100 yards, paper patch:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/627b4656-cd5c-45f5-a12c-e336e1f16dcd_zpsi3ucunrq.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/627b4656-cd5c-45f5-a12c-e336e1f16dcd_zpsi3ucunrq.jpg.html)

My point is that any of the styles referenced are fully capable of high precision when done properly. I know little about powder coating, but enough about grease groove and paper patch to know your second and third place showings could just as easily been a dead heat for #1, or better. Your approach to paper patch is poorly founded.

[paul h]

I was surprised at how much of a difference lubes made in accuracy. Ideally I should have re-run the test shooting multiple groups with each lube, and thoroughly cleaning the gun between tests. But, I really just wanted to see if my home made lithi-bee was as good as commercial lube.