load data 308 winchester needed; 165RNFP, 170 RNFP and 100 grain hornady short jacket

[Beaumont78]

Hi all, after shooting jacketed for a while i'm starting to venture back into cast.

Have some experience loading cast for the 7.62x54r, but now looking into the .308 winchester.

Have expander plugs in;
309
310
311

Have the following powders;
-trail boss
-a bit of 4759
-red dot
-700x
-5744
-4350
-4064
-4895
-4198
-3031
-4227
-aa 2700 data
-reloder 15
-reloader 17
-ramshot hunter
-ramshot tac
-ramshot big game

Have the following boolits;
-.308 100 grain hornady shortjackets
-.309 165 rnfp (no gas check possible) from Falcon cast bullets
-.309 165rnfp (no gascheck possible) coated from Falcon bullets
-.310 170rnfp gas check possible (and have checks) from Oregon trail laser cast

Looking for accuracy at 100 yards, shooting paper, out of a savage 12 with a 26" varmint barrel that had a few hundred jacketed through it, so it's broken in / smooth.

Can you please give me a little guidance here as to where to start with these 3 projectiles?

Thanks in advance!

[Mk42gunner]

Cast in the 7.62x54R and .308 will be very similar in my experience, although boolit diameter will likely be smaller in the .308. down in the military cartridge section there is a lot of info, and this is the first sticky there: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?13425-Cast-Bullet-Loads-for-Military-Rifles-Article

Robert

[Cherokee]

Hint: Make sure you clean all the copper from your barrel before switching to cast.

[Jeffrey]

"Looking for accuracy at 100 yards..." This is going to be a matter of handloading technique and consistency more so than xx.x grains of xxxx powder. Start with same headstamp if not (preferably) same lot of brass. Deburr flash holes and uniform primer pockets. These two operations need to be done only once in the lifetime of a case. Then go with "match" or "bench rest" primers. These primers are no more or less powerful, they are held to a higher degree of consistency. Now on to data. My Lyman cast bullet handbook 4th edition page 149 lists 308 Winchester data for 4198, 3031, 4227. Lack of a gas check on all boolits but the 170gr is going to make full power loads more of a challenge. 170gr data for your powders are (powder, start load, velocity, max load, velocity): 4198, 24.0gr, 1897fps, 30.5gr, 2341fps; 3031, 28.5gr, 1868fps, 39.5gr, 2653fps; 4227, 21.5gr, 1867fps, 27.8gr, 2270fps. Now you need to "ladder load" to find the load YOUR GUN likes. Let's look at the 4198 data: start load 24gr, maximum 30.5gr. 10% of that is 2.4 - 3.0. Load 6 cartridges each with 24.0gr, 26.4gr, 28.8gr, and 30.5gr. Starting with a clean barrel, fire one "fouling shot" off target. Fire the next 5 on a target. Clean the barrel. Repeat with next charge weight, and again until all cartridges are fired. One of these charges should give you the accuracy for which you are looking. You do not HAVE to use this increment of charge weight. I have used .5gr increments in a 54.0 to 58.0 charges of 4350 in a 30-06 with a 165gr bullet. It was interesting to see the group start big (3" @ 100 yds IIRC), get small (1 ragged hole), then get big again. This load was tailored for THAT rifle. Good technique is necessary for accurate handloads, but one gun's "sweet spot" will very rarely be the same as another gun's. Even if it is the same make and model. Speer manual #14 data for the 100gr short jacket lists 2 powder choices from your list: HODGDON 4895, 44.0gr, 2770fps, 48.0gr, 3112fps; 4064, 45.0gr, 2816fps, 49.0gr, 3061fps. Please note, when you wrote you have 4895 you did not specify IMR or Hodgdon. Both companies make "4895". IMR being "IMR4895" and Hodgdon being "H4895". These two powders have similar burn rates but their data IS NOT interchangeable. The plain base boolits, I would keep relatively slow. Look in the "Classics and Stickies" section for "Favorite reduced loads". http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?17536-Favorite-reduced-loads

[runfiverun]

I'd not look any further than about 7 grains of red-dot.
I'm remembering that 165 rnfp mold having a nose diameter about .0015 too small to be a bore rider.
and working best at the below 1100 fps velocity's.
you don't need blazing speed to reach the other side of the paper.

hold out the lazer cast bullets for a bit then once you get the hang of the others work on melting them down to sweeten a pot of alloy.

[Yodogsandman]

Don't trust internet forums for load advise. Please invest in a few load manuals, the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook #4 is a good one to start with. Don't fully trust load manuals either, double or even triple check loads against trusted published sources. Stick with using published load data and start loads at the STARTING loads, working up gradually and carefully.

[Beaumont78]

Thanks for the input guys, this should get me started. Will report back.

For now i think i'll start with the 165's;
-12 grain trail boss,
-10 grain red dot
-10 grain 700x

if any of these loads seem out of whack please let me know :)

Anyone have a good load for the Hornady 100 grain short jackets?

[longbow]

I had real good results in my .308 using the Lyman 31141 170 gr. RNFP over 18 to 22 grs. IMR4227. A friend a Savage lever also got good accuracy with the same load.

4227 is my go to powder for my .308 and .303's... and I use it in .44 mag as well.

Also as Mk42gunner said, check out the link he posted. Lots of good info there.

Longbow

[yondering]

Anyone have a good load for the Hornady 100 grain short jackets?

I don't have a specific load for 308, because I've only used those in 30-06 and 300 Blk, but any of the loads you listed there for 165's will work for those 100gr Hornady SJ as well, just depends what velocity you're looking for.

One word of advice on those - don't push them too hard; they are great at pistol bullet velocity but at higher pressure/velocity the lead nose slumps back against the bore and accuracy goes to pot, along with a little leading. These are a great little small game bullet though, and work really well for a suppressed/subsonic load. Hornady's 90gr XTP hollow point is another good one for this category, that can be pushed faster as well.

[Beaumont78]

Thanks for the input guys ! alrighty, first test results; the winner so far is the 10 grain red dot load with the 165 RNFP from Falcon cast bullets. Shows real promise over 4 or 5 shots, about 1.5 MOA at 100, but after that the lead build-up at the firsts 3 or so inches of the barrel makes the accuracy go bad. I have now tumble lubed the remaining bullets i have in Lee alox, so there's the Falcon lube in the lube grooves and then then whole projectile is covered in a thin layer of alox.

I'll load and try again with 10 grains of red dot since the accuracy was good till it leaded up; hopefully the alox tumble lube treatment will take care of that issue. If not i'll go lower with the charge.

One thing that does not help in all this, is that it's a Savage factory barrel; lots of tooling chatter marks in the bore...