.45 acp bullet recommendations

[adanymous]

Hey Fellas,

Ive been absent a bit, you know how it goes. Last I was here I was working on a 300 aac project, trying to get a rem 700 to shoot right. Well it didnt, and I replaced it with another one and it didnt shoot either (accurately). SO Im done with that caliber, subsonics appear to have inherent accuracy problems, that or Remington really womps. So in trying to continue on my very quiet hunting gun I built an AR-15 in .45 acp because its usually subsonic, expands at those velocities, is common and known to be accurate, has no need of specialty equipment to load. The gun has a selectable gas system so I can run it single shot or semi, has an ambi side charging upper so I can run it single shot easily, and has a lower that takes glock 21 mags, oh and a 10 inch bbl. I know all about the NFA and am compliant.

Anyhow, I need recommendations on a bullet design that would feed through the system, be as expandable as possible, and heavy. A great hunting bullet that will be easy to load subsonic. Also Id prefer it to come from a mould that isnt some unobtanable thing that hasnt been manufactured since Columbus landed.
Thanks!

[waco]

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=41_159&products_id=1822
NOE copy of an HG34 with HP option.

[runfiverun]

Ly-452664

[Yodogsandman]

Lee 452-230 TC for an accurate heavy and Lyman 452460 200 gr SWC for precision shooting.

[375RUGER]

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=41_151&products_id=267

this works really well in 45acp

[adanymous]

runfiverun do you have any experience with that bullet in a .45 acp? What do you think about its ability to take down deer or pigs?

[adanymous]

375Ruger I like this design but I hate casting HP, they are such a pain to release for me.

[DougGuy]

Well you run into the first wall right away when you say 45 ACP and heavy. There is basically no room in the case to stick lead without immediately running into extreme pressures. I would also rank the 45 ACP as close as a last resort caliber for pigs as I could rank it. Of course you could take them with a 38 Spl if all were head shots or high in the neck but you know fully well the odds are against that happening very often. There just isn't the energy there that you need for hogs and no way to magically make it appear there.

Why would you want expansion when already the amount of penetration is in question on a decent sized hog? It would be better for a harder boolit with a wide meplat and no expansion, to fully penetrate the hog. THIS alone, will be a challenge for any 45 ACP regardless of what length barrel you shoot it from.

45 Super, better but only by a marginal amount. 460 Rowland much better than the 45 ACP round.

I am impressed with the 30 ARX which does not suffer the same ills as the 300 aac in the AR platform.

[adanymous]

Im not 100% sure that there is a better subsonic bullet to use. Now if youre talking about a supersonic boomer gun, of course Id use a heavier hitter, .308 or the like. But when you wanna shoot pigs all night without scaring off the next group. A suppressed gun is the way to go, and a big ol .45 with lots of mass should penetrate at least 12 inches into a pig, given you dont try to break shoulders. And when I say heavy, I mean for a .45 acp 230gr or so should be fine. My cousin shoots lots of does with a 5 inch 1911 and gets complete pass throughs every time at about 30 yd. I doubt it would pass through a big pig, but I bet 230 gr at 1000 fps goes a long way in. And, seriously, who doesnt wanna try to work out dope on a .45 acp to 200yd. That just sounds fun!

[DougGuy]

The boolit r5 suggests is a good one. I would second that choice, or any number of the countless RF or WFN boolits that are very close to that one. Deer are totally different animals, any round you would carry on the street would be a good choice for most deer and will likely two hole the majority of them as well but pigs are a whole different ball game.

Heavy to me is 250-255gr and I had some hellified bowling pin loads in a 1911 but we are stepping close to 45 Super energy, which I still consider marginal for pigs. I feel like you will need to harness the energy of the harder hitting 45 and use a suppressor or risk having more wounded pigs than you really want.

[NavyVet1959]

You can use .460 Rowland loading data with .45ACP length brass. Just make sure that you mark them in some way so that they will not get mixed up and end up getting fired in an unconverted .45ACP handgun. I powdercoat mine HF Red.

You probably should use stronger than normal .45ACP brass though. The .460 Rowland brass is the same thickness as .45 SUPER, so .45 SUPER brass would work. Now, having said that, I *have* loaded .45ACP brass to .460 Rowland pressure and it did not rupture. Whether I was just lucky, I don't know. You can also recycle your damaged .308 brass by cutting it down to .45ACP length.

This will give you around 900 ft-lbs with a handgun using a 230 gr bullet, probably a bit more with your 10" barrel AR.

http://www.realguns.com/loads/460Rowland.htm

[Gtek]

I don't know what the pigs are like in cackalacky, but I can tell you about the ones around here in Central Florida. Been taking them for well over forty years and can honestly say I have the T-shirt. If it were me a 90 degree broadside shot would be bottom of ear hole or inside front or rear V of X through center chest (bow, muzzle, Large handgun, HP rifle), anything in shoulder broadside is a poor choice. I have been inside more than a few and have seen over an inch and a half of white teflon over shoulders, a 45 not being my first choice. "And, seriously, who doesnt wanna try to work out dope on a .45 acp to 200yd. That just sounds fun!" At the range maybe, in the field, in the dark, spraying 230 grains all over creation, well maybe if you just like watching and or hearing slow noisy deaths. They can be a really tough kill and they possess a life force to be admired. My 45 carbine is one of the home protectors, thin skins up close drop and leak hard and quick. May I kindly suggest you think this through a little longer, maybe better 300 tools?

[runfiverun]

the boolit I mention is 250grs [give or take] and is a rnfp so it will feed through a decent 1911.
4.5-5 grs of unique will function just about any 1911. [it works in all 3 of mine]

I mainly shoot it in my 625 in AR brass. [and carry it as a side-arm in the woods]
your approximating the 44 special but with a bit more weight.
I think to 50 yds you'd be okay, but like said above a big pig could take a shoulder hit and walk away to die out of sight. [they could do that with a jacketed bullet from a rifle too]

I never underestimate the powder of a heavy boolit moving at a sedate speed.
they will penetrate.
give it a try in some wet paper or some water jugs and see what you get.

[NavyVet1959]

I think to 50 yds you'd be okay, but like said above a big pig could take a shoulder hit and walk away to die out of sight. [they could do that with a jacketed bullet from a rifle too]

I never underestimate the powder of a heavy boolit moving at a sedate speed.
they will penetrate.

That big pig could also just get pissed off and head *your way*.

Since his .45 AR is using G21 mags, he's going for quantity over quality. He's hoping that if the pig does head his way, he can empty that mag into him before he gets to see those tusks up close and personal.

I carry a .45-70 for pigs. Maybe it's overkill for the majority of the ones that are out there, but I figure that I don't carry for the *average* pig, I carry enough gun for that statistical anomaly, just in case.

A hair less than 2000 fps and nearly 3600 ft-lbs... Can't argue with that...

[Bigslug]

My current experiment: http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=41_427 - Ranch Dog Tumble Luber

Basically the same nose as the conventional lube LBT 452-230-LFN that got me looking this direction, so I fully expect it to run equally slick as greased eel boogers through my 1911's

At the moment though, I've done my initial testing with it through a 4.2" .45 Colt Redhawk into milk jugs at around 950 fps - which is probably closer to the velocity range you'll be getting in a rifle.

The big cavity hollowpoint, when cast out of 25-1 (ish) range scrap from jacketed bullets weighs 220 grains, opens up to about .80 caliber, penetrates three milk jugs, and only looses about 4 grains during the experience, despite peeling back so far that I suspect it was getting close to loosing the nose section. The front jug in the stack ruptures. . .spectacularly.

The small cavity HP, same alloy, will either turn itself into a dimple-nosed wadcutter, or begin to mushroom out to about .55-.60 caliber. Probably would make a great rifle slug.

I haven't shot the solid version yet (237 grains), but the LBT, when cast out of water-dropped wheel weights and fired at GI Hardball speed (830 fps) takes 8-9 jugs to stop. The NOE 452-230-HP is nearly the same profile with an HP option if you prefer conventional lube to the tumble lube road I am currently on.

The LBT aluminum mold is one of the easiest I've cast from. The NOE aluminum is fine if you want a solid, but if you want to go with an HP design from NOE, spend the extra for brass, as it holds the heat in the nose pins better and is therefore less fussy.

[adanymous]

Thats good info bigslug thanks! Maybe thats why I have trouble with the pins on my aluminum .358 mould from NOE.

runfiverun thanks for the input. I saw that mold in a 4 cavity at optics planet for $99

trying to decide if I should go for the hp or big meplat. I know everyone here says a big meplat will do the trick, just stuck in my old ways.

[adanymous]

I like to dope guns, it has nothing to do with how I hunt. I have a 22 bolt action shooting cci standards doped to 300 yd just for grins. And I can pretty reliably hit beer cans at that range if theres no wind. Doesnt mean I shoot rabbits at 300 yd with it. Its just for grins.

I know .45 acp is light for broadside shooting a pig. I know shot placement is paramount, generally at night with good wind pigs are super calm and you can shoot them wherever you want if you wait for the shot. And if you use the wind and are quiet you can generally get within 50 yards of them without ANY trouble. Hunting with thermals and night vision is kind of cheating. I once shot a waist high pig 5 times with an ar 223 shooting green tips at less than 10 yards. It ran off to never be seen again. Saw one shot at 10 yards with 12 ga 00 buck with the same result. I saw one shot in the head with a .357 get up and run until is soaked up some more damage. I know how tough they are.

Im building this gun to take glock mags because doing it this way was the least expensive route to my desired effect. I originally looked at rebarreling a savage 110 7mm 08 to .45 acp, I even bought the rifle. However the machine work to make it reliably feed would have cost as much as this whole build did, and it would have been kind of ugly, so thats why i built this particular gun. And it looks super cool!

I picked .45 acp because it is everywhere, cheap, nearly always subsonic, has a small enough case not to have issues with too little powder in it like 300 aac does sometimes, has a bullet that is designed to expand at low velocities, is known for accuracy, and is very good at being suppressed.

There we go, speculation as to my motives should be put to rest.

[marlin39a]

Lee 452-230 TC for an accurate heavy and Lyman 452460 200 gr SWC for precision shooting.

These are the ones that work for me.

[Green Frog]

If I wanted to establish a baseline for what I could do with ANY 45 acp, I'd start with the old Lyman 452460 and go from there. Lighter than you want but drives fast, feeds well, and has a good profile with medium meplat and sharp edge @ shoulder. JMHO, YMMV

Froggie

[NavyVet1959]

Go big or go home...

Start with an AR-10... Put a .45 caliber barrel on it. Chamber it for a cartridge length of about 1.5".

For brass, take .308 brass and cut it down to just shy of the shoulder and then trim to 1.5". Load your .45ACP bullets in this brass. Should be able to use AR10 mags.

Somewhat similar to the .45 Raptor, but you could use more readily available .308 / 7.62x51 brass to make the brass for this round.

[adanymous]

The downside to that is a supersonic round, which is completely the opposite of what I wanted. I have no end of supersonic shooters (no exaggeration, my dad recently passed, his collection and mine will mostly fill and f-150 bed). I wanted a dedicated subsonic shooter that would be easily adaptable to my CNVDT thermal and would reliably feed from a magazine (fixed or removeable), and more importantly I wanted a round that would expand at subsonic velocities and provide a reasonable amount of energy at 50 yd. So, it needed a large top rail and a large dia bullet. I could go with 44 mag ruger M77 or similar, but they have issues shooting subsonic because of all the case capacity and are not that accurate at ss velocities. If a powerful .45 was my goal I have a rem 700 safari in 458 win mag. All Id have to do is pull it out of a safe. Quiet is key in this deal.

[NavyVet1959]

Try that .458 win mag with 13 gr of Red Dot.

Or load the .45 proposed above from the .308 brass to .458 SOCOM levels with a heavy bullet.