Advice Needed for Loading .38 Special

[Javelin Dan]

Hi folks -


It's been a while since I checked in, but now I need some advice. After loading for my 32's (ACP & Long) for a year, I got to where there were no surprises or disappointments, so I've decided to spread my wings a little and load for another chambering. I won a “Gunbroker” auction on a nice Llama .38 Special with 4” barrel, and have been collecting all the stuff I need to load for it (all new PPU brass this time – no mixed headstamps). The only thing I need are boolits and that's the conundrum…


I've been looking at either semi wadcutters, or full, hollow based wadcutters. Not fond of lead bullets – had a lot of leading problems with them early on. Berry's has a nice 148 gr. Copper plated HBWC that I'm considering, mostly because I only shoot at an indoor range and they make a nice clean hole in paper.


I've also been using some nice tech-coated SWC's in my .32 Longs. I could get a similar bullet for my
.38, but my gunsmith/FFL (a crusty, judgmental old bugger) says tech coatings eventually leave a residue behind on the forcing cone and elsewhere that can't be removed. I know there are plated and jacketed options as well.


Another consideration is bullet weight. The choices seem to range from around 125 gr. All the way up to over 150 gr. I certainly understand the relationship between bullet weight, recoil, and accuracy, but then again, this isn't a “hand canon” either (no "+P" rating).



Been reading up and have read everything from “plated and jacketed bullets cause more friction down the barrel (huh?) and need to be loaded to 800 fps+”, to “lead bullets cause more friction in the barrel...”yada, yada. Everytime I get ready to order, I start reading and get bumfuzzled and can't quite take the plunge. I'd appreciate input from anyone willing to weigh in. Thanks!

[fast ronnie]

I like 158 semi-wad cutters (lead) about 800-850 fps. 50/50 alox lube with unique behind. Not the cleanest, but no leading either.

[marlin39a]

You'll have an easier time with SWC or RN over a full wad cutter. The 38 spl is very forgiving. Try some 158 gr SWC over 3.5 gr of HP-38.

[Bzcraig]

When it comes to shooting lead boolits fit is the most important factor in avoiding leading. When shooting revolvers, in addition to knowing your barrel groove diameter, you need to know throat size. So before you purchase any boolits you will need to know those to get properly sized boolits that won't lead your bore. As long as your groove diameter is smaller than throat size, you'll want to get boolits that fit your throats.

[triggerhappy243]

FOR WHAT ITS WORTH............. When I was in High school, I was on a pistol team. We shot 38 cal. revolvers. Our teacher/coach reloaded all the ammo. all of it was 148 gr. full wadcutter. I dont remember a leading issue. bzcraig nails it. bullet fit is king. and a good bullet lube is a pair of kings. (LOL, could not help myself). Cast boolits cost you the lead and your time. copper jackets/plated......... yegotta buy those. Our pistol team humiliated an aweful lot of police officers and their supervisors.

[OS OK]

Been reading up and have read everything from “plated and jacketed bullets cause more friction down the barrel (huh?) and need to be loaded to 800 fps+”, to “lead bullets cause more friction in the barrel...”yada, yada. Everytime I get ready to order, I start reading and get bumfuzzled and can't quite take the plunge. I'd appreciate input from anyone willing to weigh in. Thanks!

I had to grin a bit when I read this...most of the time I'm telling someone to read some link first, but...here I think you are doing too much reading and it sounds like the articles haven't been from here...gun rags?

You gotta case of confused mind, TMI...too much information. The best way to stop that is to step in and load up some nice perty boolits that catch your eye and go shoot the little .38 it ain't no big deal...you just have to do it.

You say you don't want lead, then order some plated SWC's, they punch nice holes in paper and get going. There's prolly more recipes in the manuals than you can worry about...what powder do you already have, look it up see if there is a load with it in the .38.

Get all that stuff out of your head about friction in the barrel. You ain't ever gonna shoot so much that you'll have to worry about that, maybe your grandson will have to get her rebarreled but you won't be around to have to foot the bill. :bigsmyl2:

Stop worrying...stuff some brass and get on with it...150+ grain boolits is standard fare, 850 FPS is easy shooting.

[psweigle]

Boolit fit is king. If you load 32 s&w long, then you know all about choosing the right size boolits, so it's the exact same thing in a 38. I like to shoot 158grain lead round nose behind 3 grains of bullseye. I have been shooting that load out of everything from a snubby to a 18" 77/357 rifle without any leading at all. Just have to have it sized properly. Good luck and I hope this helped.

[rond]

I like 125 gr. RNFP for 38 Special and 9mm using Titegroup.

[Outpost75]

If your revolver has fixed sights, 158-grain bullets will probably shoot closest to point of aim. If not, use a lighter bullet to strike lower or a heavier bullet to shoot higher. Leading is caused by bullets which are too small in diameter to fit and too hard to upset and seal. Leading is more often caused by bullets which are too hard, than by bullets which are too soft. Hard lubes used on commercial cast bullets are also a contri uting factor because they cannot flow to coat the bore to provide boundary layer lubrication. At .38 Special velocities and pressures soft bullets and soft lube work best. Factory lead bullets are about 8 BHN and work fine at standard pressure. They will begin to lead at +P.

[runfiverun]

I probably wouldn't bother with the hollow base.
that is to overcome inconsistent gun problems.

pick a nice 148gr wad cutter or a 158gr semi-wad cutter with a diameter of 358-359.
and a load using a powder faster than unique that is readily available to you and go shoot.

[Soundguy]

I like 158gr SWC or LRN. The lrn feed better thru a lever gun I have, and the swc are great in wheelguns. I'm using the lee tumble lube 158gr lrn mold.

[Outpost75]

This tutorial cross-posted from another forum with permission of its OP and author is probably more detailed than you need, but has LOTS of useful info:

Q- Can anyone recommend a progressive reloader package for 38/357 that will include casting equipment & mould? I would also much appreciate suggestions as to cheap sources for components. Thanks.

A.- If you want to cast your own bullets, get a propane-fired plumbers pot which will melt at least 50 pounds of alloy at a time, and at least six ingot molds. Use the plumbers pot to render scrap alloy outdoors into ingots. You can use wheel weights or range backstop scrap for bullet alloy. A thermometer is absolutely essential these days to avoid contamination of your lead scrap with the occasionally zinc wheel weight. Keep the melt temperature below 750 degrees to prevent oxidizing off any tin in the scrap and the zinc wheel weights will also float on top so that you can skim them off. Range scrap seems more troublesome to deal with, but the copper jacket material you skim off will sell for $1 a pound or more for a scrapper, if you use a "cow magnet" to remove any steel scrap, and will more than pay for the propane it takes to melt it. If you are lucky there will be a little extra credit to trade for roll ends of tin bearing solder, wheel weights, type metal etc.

To cast bullets get an RCBS 20-lb. bottom pour pot and a pair of moulds and handles, to alternate, letting one solidify while you open and fill the other, to maintain a consistent cadence to make sure the sprue cools enough to cut clean bases, avoid smearing lead on the blocks and also maintain a good production rate. Double-cavity molds are OK for the beginner, but if you want higher production get a pair of good quality aluminum blocks from Accurate or NOE. Quality is excellent and you have no rust problems. Pre-heat the blocks on an electric hotplate while the melt is heating and use a 350 degree Tempilstik crayon on the blocks to calibrate the hotplate temperature and you will get good bullets from the start. New molds should be cleaned in Ivory or Dawn dishwashing detergent and hot water before pre-heating. Smoking the cavities helps on a new mold, but won't be needed in subsequent sessions.

For .38 / .357 I would prefer a Cowboy style rounded flat nose, which feeds smoothly in lever-action rifles with a meplat not less than 1/2 of bullet diameter. A meplat 0.7 of bullet diameter works well for hunting purposes and does not require hollow-pointing for good game performance. If you prefer hollow-points for hunting, a cavity geometry which works well is to have a core pin 0.6 of meplat diameter with 15 degree draft angle, using a bullet of 12 BHN for supersonic velocities, 10 BHN above 900 fps and 8 BHN below 900 fps. If you buy a 4-cavity mold it is feasible to have Erik at www.hollowpointmold.com modify two cavities for HP and leave the others as-is. Or if you use a pair of double cavity molds modify both cavities of one mold for hunting bullets and leave the other alone. Either way you accumulate both hunting and practice bullets, which will feed well from your lever-action rifle. Keith style SWCs may not.

Best sources I have found for powder and primers have been either Wiedner's, Mid-South or Graf & Sons. We buy our primers by the case of 5000 at a time, and powder in 8-lb. kegs. An 8-lb. keg of Bullseye loads 16,000 rounds of .38 Special at 3.5 grains per pop. An 8-lb. keg of #2400 loads 4000 rounds of .357 Magnum at 14 grains per pop. Graf is the only seller I know which will let you combine powder and primers in the same shipment under one hazmat fee for up to a 50-lb. box, which gets you 20,000 small pistol primers, a keg of #2400 for magnum loads and a keg of Bullseye for .38 Special plinkers with nothing leftover.

In a revolver with barrel less than 4 inches don't count on hollow point cast bullets expanding unless you take heroic design measures, large core pin, proper geometry, SOFT 1:30 or 1:40 tin/lead, or 50-50 pure lead and wheel weight alloy. With wheel weights you need to drive them over 1000 fps, .38 Special +P in a rifle or .357 Magnum in a revolver. For general use you can do much worse than a double-end wadcutter such as the Saeco #348 for revolver use, and a standard-weight 150-160 grain Cowboy style rounded flat nose for rifle use. You want bullets to cast of correct diameter so they do not require sizing. Most S&W and Ruger revolvers want .358", but .3585-.3590" is much better in the Micro-Groove Marlins and will work without issue in the revolvers too. Then you bulk lube with Lee Liquid Alox or LSStuff 45-45-10 and use the money you save not buying a bullet lubricator and sizer to buy powder and primers.

Ask if you really need a progressive loading machine... If loading and actually firing off multiple thousands of rounds per month, then certainly get a Dillon RL550B. BUT, if your requirements are less than 500 rounds a month, you can use a single-station press, such as an RCBS Rockchucker with fine results. If you have not reloaded before, and do not have a mentor who owns and uses a Dillon within local telephone calling distance, stay with the single-station press.

If you have more questions fire away. This will give you something to think on.

Wow indeed! That is everything i could have hoped for in an answer, so thank you very much for taking the time. I especially liked your point about choosing a bullet style that will feed in a lever action and then I may as well have the HP adaption to all molds. I won't go for the WC, but will rather use these bullets, in my hunting practice .357 loads, as my self defense back-up stash. I foresee storing as much .357 training ammo as .38 Spl but doing most carrying and training with +P+ .38 factory and reloads, respectively. I will probably forego the +P .38s in favor of stocking and training more with .357 cast hunting reloads that duplicate the ballistics of Federal's P357HS1. That way all my brass will be Federal, loaded as +P+ .38 or .357, with the same cast HP bullets in both. Although i was once a dab hand with a Lee semi-auto loading press i may just settle on that Rockchucker. Your sources for components and suggestions on bullet molding methods and equipment are invaluable, no way i could have ever researched that wisdom.

I'm still of the opinion to get another of those .357 LCR, they are wonderful guns, to say the least. I could easily carry one in each front pocket by using the slimmer Uncle Mike's #4 holster and wearing the thicker cotton 511 shorts. Oh heck, those LCR carry nicely in large front pockets of tactical pants like the 511! With the Crimson Trace laser grips they will draw even better. That is a made in heaven arrangement for carry, i can't wax more lyrical about the concept and it's implementation. Being able to get a carry permit for Cheryl, having a second gun that i can pass over to her that she is familiar with shooting and waist carry in the Remora, that is the way to go. For that reason i see carrying a second LCR in the Remora holster in my weak side front pocket. I just received my five Five Star speed loaders yesterday. They are very compact but to dump the load you have to turn the "button" and that turns the cylinder, grrr!, i never worked with speed loaders before and this is a challenge to overcome. I heard that the push "button" ones solve this but they are longer etc just when size is paramount. Now i must find the belt sunglass case that will carry these five when i have both pockets filled with LCRs. That would be 35 rounds of 158 grain +P+ .38 Hydra Shock in a low flash Personal Defence loading. Guns would have laser grips and night sights and be trained with regularly, using identical ballistics/bullet shape training ammo. I can't better this concept for urban carry and i must thank everyone who contributed their ideas to make it possible. I will report back as the implementation of project LCR and watching and training "Unknown Contacts" videos all bear fruit. I want to be able to enjoy my night walks at any time of the year and last night i did again, for umpteen hours. Thanks again

Mods to Saeco #358, standard, +P and +P+ data

On Saeco gang blocks Erik cannot convert all four cavities, because of the way the alignment pins and handle screws are placed. He can do an inset bar conversion on the center pair of cavities and leave the outboard pair as solids, which would give you a pair of solids and a pair of HPs at each pour. The way this is done it does not slow down production.

With RCBS, Accurate, NOE or Saeco double-cavity blocks you can do both cavities, and get two hollow-points at a time. RCBS 38-158 CM is similar to Saeco #358 which I have hollow-pointed to 147 grs.

You don't get expansion with the cast hollow point in a 2 inch snubby unless bullets are very soft, 8-10 BHN, such as 1:30 tin/lead alloy, or 50-50 wheel weights and plumber's lead, with no more than 2% tin added in in the form of bar solder, IF needed to get sharp fill out of the bullets. What you want is to cast bullets with hot blocks so they fill out sharply. It is OK if they are uniformly frosted, because this fuzzy surface of dentrite arms look under SEM like flying over a pine forest in a helo, and holds the tumble-on film lubes better. DO NOT quench bullets to harden them, you don't need to. To enhance snubby expansion you can use up to 4.0 grs. of Bullseye, approximating +P , vs. a standard charge of 3.5 grains in the LCR or SP101.

For approximating +P+ in .38 Special brass for use in .357 guns or the .38 Special SP101 only, you can use 10 grs. of #2400 with the Saeco or RCBS Cowboy slugs, seated and crimped in their normal crimp groove, in the Marlin rifle, but this is not very efficient in barrels less than 4 inches. I say again use this in revolvers designed for .357 Magnum ammo only, such as the Rugers, N-frame S&Ws, etc.

For a .357 dual-purpose load for revolver or rifle you want alloy not softer than wheel weights, 12BHN, and you would load 10-12 grs. of #2400 in .357 brass with a 158-gr. cast bullet, the exact charge to be determined by whether you get unburned powder which could jam the gun, or leading which impairs accuracy. Because this bullet is plain-based, (no gascheck) you need to keep revolver velocity subsonic, not over about 1080 f.p.s., and limit rifle velocity loads to about 1400 f.p.s. in the Marlin to avoid excessive leading. I have found that 10 grs. of #2400 is the least you can load in .357 brass and get acceptable ballistic uniformity with minimal unburned powder. At 11-12- grs. in .357 brass, you will find a very satisfactory "medium velocity" load which is a bit lighter than factory, but heavier than .38 Spl. +P+.

Gas checked bullets are mostly a waste of money in revolvers, because the GC diameter is insufficient to seal the cylinder throats. Gas checks also cost about $40 per thousand and require that you buy an expensive bullet lubricating and sizing machine to put them on. Instead, save your money. Use plain based bullets, of moderate hardness, from cheap scrap alloy, such as wheel weights, and keep velocities under 1100 f.p.s. in .357 revolvers, and below 1400 f.p.s. in the Marlin.

For occasional hunting use when you need a magnum load approximating factory velocity, buy a few hundred 158-gr. jacketed soft point bullets for rifle use and load 14 grs. of #2400, about 1/2 grain below maximum as published by Speer. This give about 1600 fps in the Marlin. The deer can't tell the difference and that load is instantly recognized from your others by its distinct appearance so there is no guessing.

Bullet alloy hardness

For plain based revolver ammo there is no advantage to go any harder than about 13 BHN. Commercially cast bullets such as Meister, Lasercast, etc. are made from a 92Pb-6Sb-2Sn alloy, about 16 BHN, which is harder than necessary for non-magnum loads. They do so because this alloy is widely available in one-ton heat lots, casts well from the automated Magma Engineering machines they use, and makes pretty bullets for marketing purposes which are not damaged in shipping. The hard lube is used for the similar marketing purposes, because it is non-sticky, doesn't melt in summer heat and goes through the Dillon machines well. But hard lube is unable to flow to coat the bore to prevent leading at lower pressures and velocities, so you are more liable to get bore leading. Bullet lubes don't reduce leading by reducing bore friction, but function on the boundary layer principle, coating the bore to prevent adhesion of lead particles vaporized off the bullet by the powder gases.

Commercial cast bullets tend to lead more than home cast because the alloy and lube are too hard for the pressure levels obtained in non-magnum loads, and the bullets are also sized to fit the tightest minimum bore and chamber to prevent function problems. And most of the people who buy them don't know which size is correct. The old folklore in Lyman manuals of sizing bullets to groove diameter is incorrect. Bullets should be sized to fit the diameter of the ball seat in the revolver cylinder. If bullets are too hard, undersized, and inadequately lubricated with a hard lube which will not flow at standard pressure, they won't upset to seal the bore, powder gases will leak past the bullet and wash lead from their bearing surface, depositing it on the bore. A common misconception is that cast bullet loads lead because the alloy is too soft. The opposite is usually the case, that the bullets are too hard. Many people fall into this trap.

AND harder alloy than about 12-13 BHN is not going to expand when hollow-pointed. In full .357 loads fired in the rifle you may get some fragmenting, but not mushrooming. My advise is to use straight wheel weights or range backstop scrap if you can get them. Add about 1/2 pound of 50-50 bar solder per 20 lb. potful if needed to get good castings. Bullets of 12 BHN will not expand in standard pressure revolver loads, but will somewhat in +P and will do just fine in the rifle or in heavier +P+ revolver loads over 1000 fps.

If you want to get some expansion in standard pressure loads cut your wheel weights 50-50 with plumbers lead which is nearly pure, adding the same 1/2 pound of 50-50 solder to a 20-lb. potful , if needed to get good castings. This alloy will go about 8-10 BHN and does OK in the rifle below 1000 fps or 4 grs. of Bullseye in .38 cases, but you may get some leading in the +P loads. Accuracy is quite OK for a dozen to 18 shots for hunting purposes. Brush the bore when done shooting and leave wet with bore cleaner, then just wipe the bore and chambers with a dry patch before shooting.

Brass cases, Crimps, Brands, Plated or not matters

If you are reduced to using free, mixed headstamp, range pickup brass, tumble clean in untreated corncob to remove dirt and grit before sizing. After sizing do the best you can to sort it into batches of like headstamp sharing the same type face, identifying knurls, etc. Separate plated brass from plain. Above all, learn to identify and keep separate any cases originating from factory loaded wadcutter match ammo. Treat these cases as if they were solid gold! I will explain.

Wadcutter brass is identified by either one, or sometimes two knurls or cannelures at the midpoint of the case's length. Their purpose is to prevent a wadcutter bullet being dropped into a loose-mouthed, powder charged case, from falling below flush with the case mouth. This maintains proper position until the bulleted, charged case reaches the crimping station. The loading machine used by the ammunition factories full-length profiles the case sidewall to fit gently, but tightly against the shank of the soft-swaged, hollow-based wadcutter bullet. It uniformly, but lightly crimps the case mouth to remove any flare, imparting only a slight radius at the case mouth to ease loading into the chambers. Its design intent is to avoid at all cost any damage to the fragile, soft- lead bullet, which would impair accuracy. THIS is the principle of the Lee Factory Crimp Die and is why you should buy the Lee carbide die set to the exclusion of all others.

The Lee Factory Crimp die does not depend upon case length to determine strength of crimp. It doesn't care whether case mouths are thin or heavy. Individual rounds are profiled full-length so that none will exceed maximum cartridge dimensions. This prevents tolerance stacking of oversized bullets in thick wall cases, which could cause a bulge that will jam your gun. Cast bullets may be loaded unsized, simply tumbled in Lee Liquid Alox. If bullet sizing is necessary, this is done by compression inside the die, rather than by shear in an expensive, unnecessary lubricating and sizing machine.

Because wadcutter brass has a thinner case wall, intended to gently handle a soft lead bullet, it is work hardened less in assembly, so it will last longer!

Brass used for +P service loads often has a heavy knurl or cannelure closer to the case mouth, which is used to hold the bullet against the primer blast and maintain heavy bullet pull of a thicker case which provides a tight fits necessary for acceptable ballistic uniformity of slower powders. Such brass has a harder final anneal and is more heavily work hardened in assembly, so it may crack after only a few reloads, especially if it has been nickel plated. When obtained as once-fired brass, use this for your "shoot and let fly" combat practice ammo.

If you intend to buy new brass, get plain, unplated, un-cannelured cases, from Starline, Winchester or Remington.

Plated brass was used to reduce corrosion of rounds carried in leather looped cartridge belts. Today it is done mostly for marketing appearance, so that old stock does not take on a patina and "look old." Plated cases will not last long in repeated reloads as plain brass, but some brands fare better than others. Winchester un-cannelured, plated cases last longer than similar Remington. Federal +P and +P+ plated brass also seems OK. Sellier & Bellot seems the worst. Reload only once, use it for shoot & let fly, or save for trade to the scrap dealer.

Using a pair of RCBS 20-lb. bottom pour pots, pouring from one while I refill the other and let it come up to heat, and also alternating between a pair of 4-cavity Saeco molds, I can cast 100 pounds of handgun bullets for .38, .44 or .45 in an 8-hour day. By bulk liquid lubing and letting bullets air dry on cookie sheets or pizza pans, I can bulk lube 5000 bullets an hour, which will take 2-3 days to dry, before they are ready to load. Lubed bullets are stored in .30 cal. metal ammo cans which hold about 50 pounds each, or about 2400 .38 Specials, a days output for an RL550B by an experienced operator.

[RogerDat]

I like 125 gr. RNFP for 38 Special and 9mm using Titegroup.

Ditto, sort of. Truncated cone 125 gr. blue lube, powered by Titegroup down around 3.2 grains in a 38 snubbie.

Get good results with that same Titegroup load in 158 SWC with Lee tumble lube design and 45/45/10 tumble lube. I do find sizing makes for better accuracy even though the tumble lube design doesn't require it. Around 3.7 gr. of Titegroup is still accurate, just not more accurate, and does have more recoil and uses a smidge more powder. Wife likes mild and I have a right elbow issue so I'm liking it more these days too.

Same Lee 158 gr. SWC with powder coat and sized with that same 3.2 of Titegroup is my most accurate. Looks clean so far.

Unique works well also. I think it might be better in hollow base wad cutters I have loaded. Was ok in full wad cutters but did so few of those so far that I don't have a valid opinion to offer.

[mdi]

When it comes to shooting lead boolits fit is the most important factor in avoiding leading. When shooting revolvers, in addition to knowing your barrel groove diameter, you need to know throat size. So before you purchase any boolits you will need to know those to get properly sized boolits that won't lead your bore. As long as your groove diameter is smaller than throat size, you'll want to get boolits that fit your throats.
TRUTH! I have been shooting my home cast bullets for many years and once I started sizing to cylinder throat diameter, leading all but went away.

I have noticed newer reloaders seem to have problems with plated bullets with many questions on load data and crimp, so I usually suggest jacketed, or cast lead sized to fit their gun until they get the hang. HBWC are a "fun bullet" and very accurate with little recoil/muzzle blast. The skirt opens up under pressure and fills the throat and barrel lessening leading, along with lower velocities (I've shot thousands of 148 HBWC, and DEWC with 2.9 gr. of Bullseye or W231 for about 800 fps). Everything else is the same as your 32 long methods. One of the great things about the .38 Special is it's versatility. I've used bullets from 100 gr up to 160 gr successfully, but now have settled on two; I have a Lee mold that drops bullets I use in my 3, 9mms, 3, .38 Specials and .357 Magnum. It's a 125 gr. RNFP and I just size it to the gun that will shoot it. My 160 gr SWC is from an old Lachmiller mold and that bullet has been very accurate in all my 38 cal guns.

Sometimes even gun shop owners are full of baloney. I have fired over 1,200 Hy-Tek coated bullets without any fouling that can't be removed with normal cleaning. I have PCed and fired mebbe 1,000 bullets in my guns with no abnormal fouling (in my rifles too). I've not read of any Hi-Tek coating transferring to barrels either, in all the forums I frequent and they shoot as accurately as any bullet I've reloaded...

[Walter Laich]

a slight detour and then back to the topic:

I went on a quest for a Lyman 358242 mold which throws the cutest 92 gr RN on the face of the earth (had to look hard as there are two molds with same number but one is 92 and other 121 grain bullets)

Finally found one and paid too much for it but it's mine! Only comes in double cavity but such is life

They are perfect for my wife's mouse loads. No recoil as you would expect and fun as all get out.

Lee has a couple of 125 gr 6-gang molds that are very close to mine

[Javelin Dan]

Wow! Once again, you guys rock! Good info all. I hear ya OS OK, I usually over-research and end up with a case of "cranial rectosis". I have on hand Red Dot, Power Pistol, and a little bit of Bullseye left. I see some data in my Lyman's 49th for both Bullseye and Power Pistol. While there's nothing there for this chambering and Red Dot. I've researched other data to see the correlation between Red Dot and Bullseye, and they're very close, with Red Dot usually requiring just a tenth of a grain or so more to give similar results. I also came across some threads here and in other forums where guys use and like Red Dot for this caliber. I'll probably start with the Bullseye since I'm comfortable with it and move on to the other powders for comparison. It looks like I'll need to be careful (with an FMJ or plated bullet) to load to at least 800 fps...correct?

One last thing -crimp! My experience with Lee's dies is that they produce a so-called "modified crimp". According to Lee, it's supposed to be a mash-up of roll and taper crimping, and it worked just fine with the .32 Longs. The dies I scored for .38 Spcl. are used RCBS (got the whole set of 3 on ebay for $17 bucks!). While I have an RCBS taper crimp die for my .32 ACP and like it very much, I'm not sure what to expect for the RCBS and these boolits. I'm assuming I won't be pushing any pressures that will move the case back in the cylinder, right? All else considered, I think I may gravitate back toward those Missouri Bullet SWC's with the high-tech coating.

[runfiverun]

I don't bother to roll crimp my light pistol loads.
I do have a taper crimp die for the 38/357 but it is just used to iron the cases flat.
red-dot will load the same as bulls-eye in the target loads.
2.7-3.0grs of either one will overlap the other and you could shoot mixed groups without seeing enough difference to worry about.
I do this with my 9mm loads.

[acoop101]

Just get some hornady 148 grain hbwc and load them infront of 2.7 grains of bullseye and have a blast shooting these extremely accurate low recoil rounds.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk

[wonderwolf]

Red dot is one of my favorite powders and I think it really shines in the .38 special

With cast ranging between 125-158 I use a universal load of 4.2gr of red dot. This load with the Lee 158gr FN is one of the best I've tested but is in the +P range with some books so be mindful of that with the Llama .38 of yours.

I agree with some of the above in that you will clear up a lot of what you're finding online by trying it out yourself and experiment and see what works. I've (and lots of others here I imagine) have gone all over the place in the realms of reload recipes whilst staying in the data limits of books (A lot of reloading books have different mins/max loads which is why its a good idea to own several!)

Bullseye as you've mentioned is a fantastic powder as well and I've only recently started using that myself in the last 2 years. Dad never had it around so I didn't grow up with it like I did Red Dot.

Its good you are cautious, but don't let that stop you from trying different things out and getting a feel for what can and can't be done with the excellent .38 special!

[DougGuy]

Whatever you size to, or whatever boolit diameters you order, see if they will push through the cylinder throats from the front. If you have a .357" groove diameter in the barrel, and .356" cylinder throats, you have a recipe for a leaded barrel right there, and it doesn't matter what you size to before firing, the boolits will come through the cylinder and exit the front at throat diameter. You would want to take a .358" boolit and be able to push it through the throats with a light drag. If it won't let you push a .358" without force, the cylinder throats need reaming/honing which afterwards should make a great shooter with cast boolits.

[Soundguy]

The dies I scored for .38 Spcl. are used RCBS ... ... I'm not sure what to expect for the RCBS and these boolits. .

Expect a roll crimp....

[toallmy]

All I can say is get started , maybe order 500 or so store bought boollits , that interest you to try out , than you will have some experience loading cast , and figure out some sizing issues . Than you have a little knowledge when you choose a mold to start with .

[OS OK]

http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=38%20Special&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Source=

^^^ Prolly the most complete listing for the .38 Special I've come across to date, except for the latest Lee Manual...I copyied and pasted it here earlier but it was pretty lengthy and when I got to the bottom I spotted a 'copyright' symbol...so, here's a link, guess that'll have to do.

Read the disclaimer at the bottom of the page too.

For me...I just don't generally trust anything I find on the web, I put my stock in the Manuals from reputable sources.
You can use these data but always start in the middle of the load and work your way up until satisfied...watch the primers for hi-pressure, be careful of seat depth, never go below minimum charges unless a powder manufacturer says its OK...then there is limits there also....geee, just go get several good Manuals, that's the best advise I have this morning!

charlie

[Char-Gar]

If you want to use store bought bullets, Matt's Bullets casts Lyman 358311 of the correct hardness and with good lube for use in the 38 Special. This is a 160 grain RN bullet and will shoot to the sights of a service 38 Special. I have found these nominal weight RN bullets to give accuracy equal to or greater than any other bullet in the 38 Special.

I load this bullet over 3 grains of Bullseye which is easy on the gun and the shooter. You can boost this up but never go more than 3.5 grains of Bullseye.

This is a good range/target/plinking load that won't cause leading problems. Matt's sells these at .359 and I run them through a Lee .358 push through sizer. You can size them .357 if you want or need to. Either the .359, .358 or .357 will be all of the possible sizes you will need and the bullets from Matt's can be shot at any of these diameters.

There is no need to slug the handgun's bore, but you do need to know the diameter of the cylinder throats and shoot bullets as close as you can to that size.

I no longer cast bullets for the 38 Special as Matt's makes them as good as I can cast them. He also casts and sells SWC and WC bullets as well, if that is what floats your boat.

Pay attention to the tutorial by Outpost, as that is as close to holy writ as you will find on this subject.

[Blackwater]

JD, it's good to see someone getting into a new area of reloading doing their homework FIRST! Lots of good advice given. Most trying thing is getting crimps just right for your loads, and crimps CAN, at least sometimes, affect the accuracy you get. As you shoot, try different things, and see what works for you and your gun. Varying the crimp can make a difference. Too much crimp and you may distort your bullets. Too little and the bullet might slip out the front of the case and tie up the gun until you get it back inside the case again.

It's good to see someone shooting on a budget. I think we all started out that way. When I started, I just used an old SS sauce pan to melt my lead in on the stove. Pan lubed in cake pans. "Improvise and overcome" was a way of life while I was finishing up college, married with a son! "Where there's a will, there's a way, and don't be afraid of plain lead lubed bullets at ALL! If I and many others here can get near flawlesss results, there's no reason you can't too. I actually envy your path of discovery and accomplishment that lies ahead of you! You're really gonna' surprise yourself, I think!

[gwpercle]

I probably wouldn't bother with the hollow base.
that is to overcome inconsistent gun problems.

pick a nice 148gr wad cutter or a 158gr semi-wad cutter with a diameter of 358-359.
and a load using a powder faster than unique that is readily available to you and go shoot.

2.8 grains of Bullseye , under just about any bullet weight from 105 to 160 grains , WC , SWC , RF or RN profile , is usually an accurate load in any 38 special. Perfect for paper punching.
I like this load with a cast 160 grain wadcutter....very accurate.
Gary

[Boolseye]

Maybe I've been lucky, but I never had the slightest problem loading and shooting lead bullets in my .38 (S&W m66). I agree with he previous post-don't overthink it! It's a forgiving caliber. Get a nice 158 gr SWC or 148 WC, some bullseye or the like, size to .358" and shoot!

[John Boy]

Here's some 125gr & 158gr loading data to mull over ... http://reloadammo.com/38loads.htm

[Javelin Dan]

Blackwater -

I just want to share what I learned about crimping as it relates to mixed headstamps. When I geared up for loading the .32's, I bought used brass with mixed headstamps. What I noticed pretty quickly was that the thickness and hardness of the brass varies by a bunch from one label to the next. The upshot was that especially with the .32 Longs, I noticed some bullets seating real easy, some pretty hard, and everything in between. I'm a fairly new shooter and will never be able to shoot 'em all through the same hole, but was wondering all along if any of this figured into my accuracy, or lack thereof. While they all received the same crimping force from the die, I'm sure some came out of the shell easier than others. None of this seemed to be nearly as much an issue with the ACP's as I go back and do a final taper crimp as a separate operation. 'Course, I am shooting the Longs out of a little 2 1/2" snubbie so there's that...