A cast bullet cartridge

[KCSO]

While necking down some brass for a German sporter I got to thinking...

Has anyone ever had a chambering reamer made up for an 8mm Mauser necked to 308? I was looking and this looks like an ideal cast bullet round. A neck long enough to hold even a 220 bullet without intrusion into the powder space and enough case capacity for any hnting load. Seems to me like my most accurate cast bullet gun was a308 back when.

[45 2.1]

There are several versions, IIRC, of the 308 long neck. Not an new idea.

[docone31]

Most .473 based cartridges are indeed based on the .473 Mauser cartridge. They start with small ones and go up to the larger non-belted ones.
I agree with you though. That long a neck would make a great casting cartridge. It is working out the perfect case capacity/bullet weight. The .303 British was originally black powder, The neck is small though.
I would love to see someone come up with a "perfect" case for the 30cal. 185-220 gn. Long neck, just the right room for powder, rifling to just be for cast.
I do not think that would hold the appeal though that it does for black powder. They get to shoot history over and over again.
Love the smell also.

[runfiverun]

it is mostly done by necking up the 7mm

[DLCTEX]

Given the small powder charges used with cast, it would seem that a 308 case shortened in the body by a third or slightly more and with a much longer neck than standard would be a good starting place. Like the SSM cases without the fatter body.What twist? 1 in 14? DALE

[Marlin Junky]

The larger the combustion chamber, the lower the pressure, why not just go with the 30-06?

MJ

[Larry Gibson]

Yes

It's called a 30x57. You don't need a special reamer or dies. A 30-06 reamer is used. Cases are formed by sizing 8x57 cases in shortened '06 dies (shorten the FL die just enough so the neck of the formed case is .005" short of the reamer neck length). This gives a neck length that fits your criteria. Case capcity is also excellent for use of medium to slow burning powders with 200-220 gr bullets. The case also has a correct taper to facilitate flawless feeding in Mauser actions. Case length is correct so the longer heavier bullets also fit a 3 - 3.3 length Mauser action. Once the FL die is shortened th correct amount the seating die is like wise shortened and an inexpensive set of dies is then perfect for the 30x57.

The same can be done with a 35 Whelen reamer and 35 Whelen dies to make a 35x57.

These two very fine cast bullet cartridges have been discussed before on this forum.

Larry Gibson.

[Buckshot]

..............Re: the 308. Isn't there a 308x1.5"?

..................Buckshot

[Hang Fire]

While necking down some brass for a German sporter I got to thinking...

Has anyone ever had a chambering reamer made up for an 8mm Mauser necked to 308? I was looking and this looks like an ideal cast bullet round. A neck long enough to hold even a 220 bullet without intrusion into the powder space and enough case capacity for any hnting load. Seems to me like my most accurate cast bullet gun was a308 back when.


Not sure about that configuration? I had a 8mm-06 back in the 1960s, they were pretty common then with all the cheap mil-surp 98's floating around. 30-06 brrass was readily availabe, gave a little more punch than standard 8mm Mauser and was a good hunting round.

[kir_kenix]

I know this is kind of a different direction than most of you are thinking but, what about the 300 H&H with less body taper and a longer neck? A suitable action would be needed, but a neck of .5-.6 could be used, and still have comprable capacity to the win mag if it had a sharp shoulder.

Current H&H brass is strong, and headspacing could be done on the new, sharper shoulder to help the brass survive a bit longer. The moderately large internal capacity would allow the use of slower burning powders at lower pressures. I think the H&H is a better basis for the cartridge because we would gain about 2/10ths of an inch over the shortened mags, and all that translates to more powder capacity.

Just my daydreaming project, but think I bigger is the direction a "cast boolit cartridge" needs to be moving (especially if it is going to be used for hunting large game), not smaller.

[felix]

For cast boolits, I personally prefer a more sloping case design having a long neck such as the 30-30's. A dream cartridge would be the 8mm Mauser as it is, but with the longer neck as the only change. Easily done with the '06 case. The idea for my caliber is to have the capacity needed to propel the longest boolit contemplated at 2400 fps, such as the 32 WS boolit by RCBS. Because recoil must match my demeanor, in general, the caliber cannot be more than a 32 using the typical 8 pound launcher, i.e., a scoped 70, 700. ... felix

[docone31]

I have wondered about the .35 Remington. I used to, quite successfully use .357 bullets as the bullet of choice. I shot IMHSA and used the 180gn Sierra flat nose. I wonder if cast bullets might not perform well in this case. Small capacity, decent neck, standard base.
Just a toss out here.

[kir_kenix]

felix, I am not familiar with the RCBS 32 WS boolit, but I think I am catching your drift. I was just thinking that minimal body taper and sharp shoulders would give us enough capacity to push those 200-240 gr .30's in the 2400+ fps range with lower pressure. I'm giving this alot of thought, maybe I'll have a rifle built up for this next hunting season as a specifically cast boolit design.

[bruce drake]

OK, I've got several .31 Mausers. They are called 7.7x58 Arisakas. They love cast bullets and especially my Lyman 311291 (for one) and a .314 sized Herters 323180 spitzer (for a last ditch model) I use 8mm Mauser brass necked down so reality says 7.7x57mm

Never realized that I was a trendsetter.

Bruce

[Firebird]

..............Re: the 308. Isn't there a 308x1.5"?

..................Buckshot

Yes, but the neck wasn't any longer than a standard 308, it was intended for subsonic loads (1000-1100 fps) for suppressed rifles so they shortened the cartridge to reduce the powder capacity. Still had problems as the amount of powder needed didn't come close to filling the case, but if you make the case any shorter you run into feeding problems. 300 Whisper with it's much smaller case diameter was a better solution.

[scb]

What do you folks think about something like this? Too little case capacity?

[Ken]

I recently bought a 30 PPC that was put together by the local benchrest guru specifically for cast bullet competition.
Awesome rifle.

[kir_kenix]

what cartridge is that scb? that looks made to order for cast, but powder capacity is surely limited for heavy hunting loads i imagine. would pbly be perfect for med-heavy loads tho.

[scb]

kir kenix
It's a 223 rem. with the shoulder set back to 222 rem. length and of course the neck expanded to 30 cal. One problem is that I'm not sure that with bullets like the 311284 shown that it would run thru a std. 223 magazine. It may have to be a singleshot proposition.

[kir_kenix]

It would be easy to make run in something like a Savage (different floor plate and barrel in 308 length action). How long is the neck? I'm sure i could figure it out...but that would require some math and I'm too tired for that.

The only problem, and I'm not even sure its a problem, with the 300-.223 is that powder capacity is pretty limited. Pushing those big heavy .30's with pistol powders wont yeild the same velocities that 60 gr's of slower burning rifle powder would.

How well does this cartridge shoot 150-180 gr cast? What platform is it built on? 1/10 twist? I think it would be a neat little number as a plinker.

[runfiverun]

actually a 20" 1 in14 twist would most likely work well with that cartridge.
you could push it with [ aguess] about 20-21 gr h-322 or maybe 18-19 4895
for maybe 17-1800 fps..
but i think i would stick with the medium cases 30-30, 35 rem ,308,and x57 type of cases.

[Doughty]

For my money the best practical case for cast bullets has already been invented....the .30-40 Krag. If you want bigger bullets neck it up. My favorite is .338, but nothing wrong with .35 or .375 or .405. Of course there is the rim which is a plus for me in single shots, but if you wanted a modern bolt, what about running a .30-06 case into the .30-40 die?

[scb]

This long necked 30-222 hasn't been built on anything yet. Been looking for the right platform. I agree with Old Vic, I love the Krag, got 4 of 'em. 1898 rifle, 1899 carbine, re-barreled Siamese Mauser, and #3 Ruger. I shoot only cast out of the old rifles. I don't think running a '06 into Krag die will work too well, base of the Krag's too small (seems like I tried it looong ago). Try running a '06 into a 308 trim die to make a long neck 308. I think I'd run them thru a 358 win. sizer first. Then you could re-chamber any 308 by using a 30 cal. N&T reamer. I've also been having real good luck with a 30/30 contender with light - medium wt boolits.

[rufracer]

scb,

I have a 300 whisper pushing200 gr CBs at 1800+ fps using 18.5 gr of h116. With that case you could prob. use about 21-22gr and get close to 2100fps if I had to guess. My whisper casses are 1.4" rather than your aprox. 1.65" long case.