Long seating 44 mag

[68 couper]

I was match honing the cyl. on a SRH and after playing with the bore, lapin compound and all that fun stuff. I filled her up with loaded ammo and could see the boolets are no where near the end of the chamber. I stick with the recipes of OAL 1.6 or so. It seems there is enough room to hang the projectile out a ways and pick up the pace a bit without getting crazy pressures. Has anyone worked up anything along these lines? I'm thinking big game load.
Thx- Couper

[44man]

The Lee 310 has 2 crimp grooves so use the lower. Boolit jump means nothing at all. Stay with the crimp groove.

[68 couper]

181648
Groovy- Getting it out there, increasing powder, staying in SAAMI specs. Anyone?

[runfiverun]

well your gonna need neck tension for proper boolit pull but you need the crimp to keep them in the cylinder when you fire them.

you have 2 choices.
use an existing design that allows the longer length.
or design your own boolit and have a custom cut mold made.
I would look through what's available already you can't be the first one that has wanted to try and make the 44 into the 445.

[68 couper]

Your right. Not lookin to reinvent the wheel gun here. Just lookin for someone's experience doing so. Garett at Hammerhead ammo wrote this on the subject

[68 couper]

http://www.garrettcartridges.com/garrett44mag.html
Sorry, a little quick on the post and slow on the paste.

[paul edward]

Do not expect longer-than-spec loads to feed through Marlin lever actions.

[68 couper]

Right on. Looks like Garett did some homework on revolvers that qualify. Here's his words on the matter- RECOMMENDED FOR USE ONLY IN RUGER REDHAWK, SUPER REDHAWK, TAURUS RAGING BULL, DAN WESSON, AND CUSTOM SINGLE-ACTION LONG-CYLINDERED REVOLVERS BUILT BY HAMILTON BOWEN, GARY REEDER, AND JOHN GALLAGHER. THIS AMMO IS NOT RECOMMENDED FOR USE IN ANY REVOLVER WITH A BARREL LENGTH OF LESS THAN 4-INCHES. THIS AMMO IS TOO LONG FOR USE IN RIFLES.
Couper

[Tatume]

I do not use heavy bullets in the 44 Rem Mag, but stick to 240 - 280 grain cast and jacketed bullets. I routinely seat bullets long, and either use no crimp at all or a very light crimp just to remove the bell. I have had no problems with bullets migrating, have excellent 100 yard accuracy, and get good velocities.

Good neck tension is vital. Without it no amount of crimp will suffice. With it, crimp is not at all important.

If you use 300+ grain bullets crimp may become more important.

[68 couper]

What kind of velocity on a 280? In the right construction that might be the best weight boolet. What kind of firearm?

[44MAG#1]

Seating out, seating in, seating ever which way. I took the Hornady 300 XTP using the crimp groove for 1.600 and used 19.5 H110 with the WLP primers and got 1150 FPS. I then seated out to the next crimp groove and worked up to the same velocity and it took 3 gr more H110 to equal the velocity I got with the short OAL. This was using the same lot of primers, powder and bullets in the same gun shot back to back chronoing.
whooeee man did I set a new standard for the 44 Mag.

[68 couper]

44 Mag #1 - You got my curiosity up with your posted velocity. I happened to have the Hodgdon site open and was looking for a powder for my 35 Rem while reading your post. The 300xtp shows 1325fps at 19 grains and 8" bbl. Any idea where the performance loss is? Your test is correct. It is supposed to make room in the case AND lower pressures for a heavier powder charge. This is being done at 1400fps with a 330g cast. I just want to approach it cautiously if at all.

[RoadBike]

I've used the 320gr SSK bullet from Penn Bullets in my Super Redhawk. I seat it "out" using the lower crimp groove. Cartridge fills the entire length of chamber. Shoots well with Win 296.

[fivefang]

Hi 68, shooting my 7.5" .44 Redhawk with a 300gr.Saeco,GC, & 21.5 gr.WC820, wlpp, it was chrony'd on a "Ohler" at Markham Park, Fl. at 1325 fps. avr. for 6 rounds my 2 cents, Fivefang

[44MAG#1]

68couper,

The Hodgdon site uses a solid breech test barrel.
I was using a real world Ruger with a 4.625 inch barrel.
Hornady lists that load for 1150 with a 7.5 inch Ruger.
You must be new to what happens in the real world of velocities of published loads.
Nothing is written in stone when velocities of loads are posted by reloading sites.
There are NO Free lunches in reloading.

[Tom W.]

What kind of big game are you looking to kill? All the T-Rex are gone........

[44MAG#1]

If a person only shot what they needed to kill the game they hunt most wouldn't have 475 this, 500 that and 45 those.
How many on here own 475 Linebaugh's 500 Linebaugh's, 500 JRH's, 500 S&W's when the only game they will more than likely ever hunt much less kill are whitetail deer.
WANT verses NEED, an everyday clash with our minds right?

[44man]

Using the Lee 310 from my SBH with a 10-1/2" barrel, 21.5 gr of 296, Fed 150, I get 1316 fps.
With my 330 gr I drop to 21 gr and don't know the velocity. It is so deadly accurate and kills deer so good, I don't care what it does.
The Lee will match it in every way.
My 330 has a very long nose, WLN style but I cut the ogive as close to 11° I could to match the cone angle.181686 This is one LONG boolit! 181687 At 200 yards.
I have made all my own molds by eye, never drew a picture and so far no other boolits have ever out shot mine but the lee 310 is close. My 45-70, .475 and .500 JRH boolits have never been beat. Blind, stupid luck!
But it might be I ignore the printed word.
I can only say to chase velocity is not going to do any good. When I work loads, the chrono stays in the house, the numbers are useless.

[44man]

If a person only shot what they needed to kill the game they hunt most wouldn't have 475 this, 500 that and 45 those.
How many on here own 475 Linebaugh's 500 Linebaugh's, 500 JRH's, 500 S&W's when the only game they will more than likely ever hunt much less kill are whitetail deer.
WANT verses NEED, an everyday clash with our minds right?
That is true and the .44 is still as good as it gets. BUT, some of us are nuts too.
My love of the big BFR's is the crazy accuracy and the ease of getting it.

[44man]

I have to jump on some fellas. Why do you look for book OAL figures? What do they mean for your gun? Now a semi, 1911 or such so they chamber--OK. But if they go in a revolver, why worry?
My BFR in 45-70 has a boolit jump of about 3/4" and shoots 1" targets at 100 and did 2-1/2" at 500. I need a light to see the boolit nose down that hole.
It is true that extending the boolit will need more powder to just match velocity. Tail chasing!
But one gun maker keeps a short cylinder to get the boolit close to the cone so you need special molds and factory bullets needed changed to fit. It is completely erroneous.

[68 couper]

Hey fellas,

[44man]

Hey fellas,
What?

[68 couper]

Elk hunting and possible bear shooting is where the load matters. I usually carry a 44 on the hip when toting a rifle around north of Durango. It wasn't bad when I was in my 20's but I'm twice that now and like to travel light. My average day goes like this- Wake up an hour before light and climb to the upper ridges out from base camp which is 15 miles in on horseback. Drink your coffee, watching the sun rise from the mountain tops. Keeping an eye on the valley and funnels from far above. After a few hours, decent and side hill the dark timber looking for bedded elk. Back to camp at noon or so for food and a nap. At 2 you climb again to oversee meadows, water and cut thru's. Sometimes hunting the edges where there is fresh sign. Smile when you hear your buddy shoot from a mile away. Back to camp in the pitch black darkness. Might have to head out and quarter on a mountian side at that point. Most people will never do this. But for the few that do, it gets in your blood. I would like to leave the rifle home to travel lighter. I find shooting the X frames cumbersome. Maybe the SRH or conender will prove adequate. Paper don't care about penetration. I do.
Couper

[dkf]

I seat MP 305 bullets out to 1.735" for my Redhawk.

[68 couper]

DKF- What's the recipe? Are you crimped?

[Walter Laich]

might not be directly on topic but when I load for 44 mag Marlin I'll run across some 44 Sp cases. When I get enough I adjust the bell and crimp dies on my Dillon and use those cases up.
Now this is for Cowboy Shooting so we're talking about loads in the lower to mouse fart range

Never had problems with feeding as they same OAL as 44 mag cartridges

[dkf]

DKF- What's the recipe? Are you crimped?

The MP 305 has 3 crimp grooves, I am crimping at the lowest one (closet to the base) which brings COAL to 1.735". I'm using Win 296 with a CCI 300 primer. Highest charge I've shot as of yet is 21.5gr, which is not max yet.

[68 couper]

Dkf- Your in the ball park. If you don't mind, what is the length front your chosen crimp to the bottom of the boolit? Seated depth I suppose. Got a picture of the 305 ?
Thx

[dkf]

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm285/SDV10/KIMG0033.jpg (http://s299.photobucket.com/user/SDV10/media/KIMG0033.jpg.html)

310gr as shown in pic. From base to top of the first crimp groove is .400".

[68 couper]

Pur dee, how's it group? What kind of lead mix?

[44man]

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm285/SDV10/KIMG0033.jpg (http://s299.photobucket.com/user/SDV10/media/KIMG0033.jpg.html)

310gr as shown in pic. From base to top of the first crimp groove is .400".
Hey, my original Lee has 2 crimp grooves.

[68 couper]

44man- what nose design does the lee have? Is it PB or Gc?

[44MAG#1]

All I know is the new 44 cal. Lee 310 gr mold I have is so undersized a .429 size die will just barely touch the sides of the bullet. Actually you have to look closely to even tell the die touched the sides.
Lee couldn't have cared less when I called them.
Yes I tried different alloys. Yes I tried water quenching. Yes I tried air cooling. Yes I tried force filling. Yes I tried ladle filling. Yes I tried filling by varying the distance from the spout of the pot.
Mold is junk.

[44man]

44man- what nose design does the lee have? Is it PB or Gc?
RNFP and has a check. Check not really needed in a .44, My .475 and .500 JRH are PB.
But the huge base band is not needed and should have 2 GG's. I found a PB base band only needs to be .080" wide. 2 to 3 GG's work better. I plunge them .025".
My 330 gr for the .44 has 2 GG's but also a space above the check for a third.
There is no reason for that wide base band. I got away from one huge GG.

[44man]

All I know is the new 44 cal. Lee 310 gr mold I have is so undersized a .429 size die will just barely touch the sides of the bullet. Actually you have to look closely to even tell the die touched the sides.
Lee couldn't have cared less when I called them.
Yes I tried different alloys. Yes I tried water quenching. Yes I tried air cooling. Yes I tried force filling. Yes I tried ladle filling. Yes I tried filling by varying the distance from the spout of the pot.
Mold is junk.
A problem with most makers. I don't know why Lee varies so much since they don't cherry a mold.
My Lee 310 is .431"

[longbow]

44MAG#1:

You can easily lap that mould out by a couple thou so should be able to hit 0.431" without any trouble. There is lapping info in the CASTPICS section.

I've lapped out a number of iron and aluminum moulds with no problems. If things go awry it is only a $25 mould anyway and no good to you as it is.

Just a thought.

Longbow

[dkf]

Pur dee, how's it group? What kind of lead mix?

I didn't bench it to test groups yet, just swapped sights also. I was mostly shooting it into a wood stump. Alloy is range scrap, air cooled around 9-10bhn. The gas check HPs work well too.


All I know is the new 44 cal. Lee 310 gr mold I have is so undersized a .429 size die will just barely touch the sides of the bullet. Actually you have to look closely to even tell the die touched the sides.
Lee couldn't have cared less when I called them.
Yes I tried different alloys. Yes I tried water quenching. Yes I tried air cooling. Yes I tried force filling. Yes I tried ladle filling. Yes I tried filling by varying the distance from the spout of the pot.
Mold is junk.

Pretty typical with Lee. Yeah you can lapp the mold out easily. NOE makes an exact copy of the Lee in .432" and .434" but they are rarely in stock. I don't have many Lee molds myself due to them often dropping smaller than I need them.

[44MAG#1]

I did not fool with the new mold since I have one that is several years old that is just fine.
The newer one has slightly deeper crimp grooves is what I wanted but really don't need.

[44man]

That is funny with Lee, tiny grooves but I never had one move from recoil and I use the least crimp I can. Case tension works enough.
But the Lee 310 is still a great boolit.

[dkf]

I have some Lee 310s here someone gave me. The pic of the MP 305 I posted has even smaller crimp grooves. I haven't had one walk yet.