Watch temps when you smelt WW

[quack1]

I scored a free 5 gal. bucket and a half of wheel weights last week and smelted them yesterday. As I was filling my smelting pot I noticed a few weights that looked like new and took a better look. I found some zinc (non magnetic) and steel (magnetic) clip-ons that were NOT rivited to the clips. These were the first non rivited zinc and steel weights I have ever found. Luckily I use a thermometer and keep my smelted lead under 650. You guys that sort out zinc and steel visually before smelting could have problems with the zinc ones without rivits. I'm finding more and more steel and zinc each time I smelt. I ended up with about 1/3 bucket of steel and zinc weights after smelting this bucket and a half. I got them at a foreign car dealer.

I'm not very computer literate, but am going to try something new to me and post a picture.

The 2 weights in the upper right are non rivited steel, front and back. They are stamped Fe on the clip, but it is small and a little dirt,grease or rust could easily obscure the stamping.
The 2 weights in the lower left are the no rivit zinc, front and back.
The 2 kinds of stick-ons are all zinc.
I also found some steel stick-ons that had no stampings on them, not even the weight. They were really rusty so I didn't add them to the picture.
Hope the picture works.


http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll300/1quack1/zinc.jpg

[remy3424]

I will be smelting ww next week from some I just tracked down, thanks for the alert. I took a quick peek and thought there were several with FE on them, zinc I assume?? Where is the best place to score a thermometer suitable for casting(shooting suppliers or other sources)? Being new at this, I have being reading alot of threads and it sounds like zinc should be avoided in the mix.

[docone31]

Yeah, I have been running into zinc lately.
I melt the batch, the steel clips float on top, the zinc melts into the blend.
I ingot these and then remelt at a lower temperature. The zinc makes kinda of an oatmeal crud on top of the melted wheel weights. I scoop this out.
I am certain I am losing lead with this technique. I found out about the zinc after I batched up a bunch. I really have no choice here.
Now, when I pour the castings, I keep the pot HOT. What zinc is left in the batch is melted and I have gotten good bullets. A little lighter than pure wheel weight but they work.
Getting zinc in the melt can make for a long day casting.

[WildmanJack]

FE means they are Iron or Steel, ZN is the abbreviation for zinc. As for the thermometer check Midway.com , they have two different styles for about 30.00 or so. A lot of the stick on's that I find are pure lead. You should be able to scratch them with your fingernail. Cast them separately and later used them mixed with regular ww so you get the right hardness.
:castmine: so I can :Fire: then have a couple of :drinks:

[eli]

Remy3424, Harbor Freight has electric thermometers and multi-meters with temperature probes at good prices and they can be found on sale fairly often. There is another current thread here that shows a HF thermometer with a after-market stainless steel probe retrofitted, something which you might want to check out.

Cheers

[compass will]

http://surpluscenter.com/sort.asp?numrec=20&lastrec=100&sort=1&search=thermometer&UID=2008021613373808

I bought a 200-1000F 3" ADJ. ANGLE 6" STEM DRY THERMOMETER for under $20.00

I made an "L" bracket that I bolted to the side of the dutch oven to support it. The threads on the thermometer are the same as the nuts that go on conduit.
I take it out of the Dutch oven and use in my Lee pot (just hold it by hand) to see what my pot temps are when casting.

http://surpluscenter.com/images/p21-1633-AGC.jpg

[mto7464]

I've never used a thermometer to smelt but my electric burner is not as hot as gas and the melt looks slushy when I remove all the clips. I lose a little lead that way since some clings to the clips but I know no zinc is in it.


What cloudspeak says below too, I forgot to mention

[Cloudpeak]

I always start out with a cast iron pot of "known" ingots melted in it. I then add wheel weights. The zinc and steel weights will float immediately.

It seems to me that, if you start out with an empty pot and melt a bunch of wheel weights that it might be possible to melt a little zinc into the lead. If you introduce WW into already melted lead (kept at a lower temp), you'll never get the zinc weights hot enough to melt into the mix.

Cloudpeak

[compass will]

I agree, but I always seem to empty the pot when done. I know if you throw weights in an empty pot and turn on the heat, the heat will spike. Might be because my thermometer does not record the air temp well, and by the time liquid lead does get up onto the stem it's already to hot. I am still new at this, but I do recall the first time I started (empty pot) the temp spiked around 900 deg when the melted lead hit the probe of the thermometer. It was all truck weights on that batch so there was not any zinc in it.

[remy3424]

Nice recall on the HF Thermo Eli, I found it, there is a HF in Sioux City now, I'll check them out or try Will's surplus center...man thoses guys have a few models to choose from! Great info guys, this site is crazy full of great info, ideas and guys who will help figure-out any problem related to casting that anyone might bring to the site!!! You all are great! I haven't been around long, but everyone seems to get along and no real politics going on, unlikey some hunting sites I visit.

[10-x]

quack1,
Thanks for this post!
I began smelting a 5 gal bucket of wheel weights today , found some "strange" looking weights that I figured were zinc by their feel and look.
The pics you posted are the "villians".
Also quite a few lead stick ons that are really soft lead (hold back for BP).
I was going to post a question about these strange looking weights but you beat me to it.:castmine:
THANKS:drinks:

[John Boy]

Will - there is a band on the middle of the thermometers. Make sure the ban is immersed in the melt otherwise the temperature reading will be incorrect.

[RustyFN]

I smelt at around 700 degrees. I scoop off the clips and everything else that doesn't melt.
Rusty
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8db32b3127ccec44f2219209c00000016100DZOGblm4Yg9 vPhI

[DLCTEX]

If you remove everything floating when the melt is just hot enough to turn the majority of clips loose then you won't melt any zinc ones as they will melt well after the lead. It's not hard to tell when the lead weights have melted and the rest are still solid. DALE

[chaos]

I am fairly new to this game, but I think there is too much hype over Zinc weights.

I started about a month and a half ago. I've melted about 9 (5 gallon) buckets of wheel weights. I pick through them and get the Zinc and Ferrous/ steel weights out. ..... just for ****s and giggles I threw a hand full of zinc and steel weights into my pot of melted and very hot lead. I have a propane fish/turkey fryer with a cast iron dutch oven that I smelt them in. I had it cranked up WIDE open and the lead was really hot. All of the "Non-Lead" weights floated on top and I could not get them to melt no matter what I did. I wont even bother sorting them out before future melts.

Chaos

Edited to add: I've found several of the steel weights that were not riveted like you have pictured and a metric ton of the stick ons.

I've also come across MANY like you have in teh bottom left of your picture and they are all lead

[kjg]

like Chaos I do the same thing, and yes have found zinc on clips them and all the crud as well as clips get dumped in a pile of crap that is going to the scrap yard, the zinc and crap and clips add to the weight probably will have a 5 gallon bucket filled in a few weeks, just making ingots, all the flat stick ons i find (all of them) are soft lead and I have probably 40 pounds sperated to go to my muzlle loader pile along with the 100 poonds of soft lead all ready on hand, getting redy to cast mini ball in .58 cal ..54, 75 for slugs as well as lee 1once, lee slugs as well as buck, and no I'll keep the wheel weights for handgun and rifles. kjg

[hydraulic]

How do you get the glue off the stick on WW's?

[grumpy one]

I had always managed to catch whatever zinc I had missed on the presorting operation, just by skimming the top of the pot when it got to 600-650*F. However a few days ago I had wandered off for a few minutes, and when I got back the melt was at 750*F. At first I wasn't worried, since zinc melts at 770F, but sure enough, the top third of the pot was oatmeal mush. Being a compulsive theorist I thought I'd take advantage of the situation to experiment a bit. I scooped off the oatmeal and looked at what was left. It kept bringing more nasty stuff to the surface and I kept skimming it off. The melting point of the strange alloy became difficult to define since more and more of it turned to oatmeal as it cooled. I poured it off into ingots, and found the first ones poured were seriously compromised - you couldn't even have cast decent sinkers from that stuff. The last ones poured looked almost OK unless you noticed that the radius where the top surface met the mould was much larger than usual. I remelted and reskimmed a few times, hoping to remove the zinc, but it didn't really happen. After about three cycles of melting and skimming I had about half the original amount of metal, and it was still useless for making decent castings. I just tossed the whole mess in the garbage.

The moral is, keep that pot well under 700*F until you've skimmed all the clips, unmelted weights, dirt etc off it. Unless you have awfully low standards, you aren't going to want to use contaminated metal.

[imashooter2]

How do you get the glue off the stick on WW's?

When you melt them it burns off.

[DLCTEX]

Hydraulic: just dump the stick-ons in the melt and burn the glue off. It will help to flux the melt. DALE

[chaos]

Hydraulic: just dump the stick-ons in the melt and burn the glue off. It will help to flux the melt. DALE

This is what I do as well, but beware it will smoke ALOT

[Crazy4nitro]

See Post Below...

'Nitro

[10-x]

Just finished smelting a bucket of WW's, kept the temp around 650 -700 and used a temp stick as insurance on the outside of the cast iron pot.
Found about 2 handfulls of zinc and steel weights, they did not melt but floated on top after the clips were pulled out. Pretty easy to toss out. They are the same "villians" as shown by quack's post plus some others.
Fluxed with an old box of canning parafin that was in the shop?(most likely swiped from the kitchen?) anyway worked ok.
Casting boolits next week!:castmine:

[Down South]

I just finished smelting a bucket of WW about two hours ago. I only noticed about five Zinc WW in this batch. There may have been more but I only pulled what was noticeable when I was scooping clips. I don’t even use a thermometer anymore when smelting. I just keep an eye on my melt. As soon as it’s hot enough to melt all of the alloy from the clips I start scooping them out. Any Zinc WW will be floating with the clips. I do sort through most of the WW to collect the stick on’s. I’ve got quite a collection of the stick on’s. They make good fishing sinkers plus they are good for slugging barrels and cylinders. I started collecting the zinc WW. Someday I’ll post pictures of all of the different Zinc WW that I have. Many are not marked with the dreaded ZN stamp.

[joatmon]

Crazy4nitro, and you got the Exide bucket too!! Good For You!

[Crazy4nitro]

I just scored my first Batch of WW's (small)
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w24/Crazy4nitro/DSCN4969.jpg

I sorted it into 3 Plastic Coffee cans of Clips-ons and one Half can of stick-ons.

TY for the info and PICS..

Edit: After closer looking, the weights in the Lower left of the First Posted Pic,some of those Are lead. I have some marked "30" that are Lead. The ones Marked "20" are Super Hard.


'Nitro

[StanDahl]

How do you get the glue off the stick on WW's?

I have read here that you can use something like Coleman camp-stove fuel (white gas?) to get the rubber off of the stick-ons. I haven't tried it yet, and besides, they only sell the stuff in small bottles now, not gallon cans, and for about the same price as the gallon cans used to be.