How do you politely tell people [Archive]

michael.birdsley

11-23-2016, 11:24 PM

bowenrd

11-23-2016, 11:31 PM

They ask a direct question you give a direct answer.

scottfire1957

11-23-2016, 11:32 PM

You tell them you don't (for good reasons) trust other's reloads, and nobody but you should trust yours. Tell them you don't want to be responsible if their gun 'explodes.'

country gent

11-23-2016, 11:32 PM

Technically you need a license to manufactor ammuntion for sale so theres one way. Another is to point out that ammo is produced firearms specific and you dont have thier gun or know what shape its in. And last is if you know them well offer to show them and let them use your equipment under your supervision to load there ammo. Alot that ask for this favor want your time more than the actual ammo.

dragon813gt

11-23-2016, 11:32 PM

You need a type 06 FFL to manufacture ammo for others. Granted this is in a commercial sense. But I can't imagine you would supply all the components for these people. And the chances of them supplying the components is slim to none. Explain you don't have the proper license and leave it at that. More importantly, don't tell people you reload. I got tired of the the freeloaders so I don't tell anyone anymore.

JWT

11-23-2016, 11:35 PM

Don't have the time.
Don't load for that caliber.
Liability concerns.

I'm with you. I only shoot reloads from people that trained me or I have trained. If I'm with someone I will let them shoot my ammo, but I don't have the time to make ammo for someone else.

Three44s

11-23-2016, 11:38 PM

Tell them no. Then if they are worthy of you mentoring them ...... offer that instead ...... they will cool off immediately.

Chose who you make the mentoring offer to wisely however ........ I have one younger guy I got started that I regret ...... he is constantly calling me with one hair brained idea after another .......

He is hard headed and I have to really sit down on him to get him to "heel" much of the time.

I should have seen it coming ...... he's one of these guys that thinks you can always have your cake and eat it too and that there must be a way to take "dirt" and turn it into gold!

Three 44s

jsizemore

11-23-2016, 11:41 PM

I tell them I'll teach them how to cast and/or load ammo. Most don't have the time but a few go for the reloading lessons.

michael.birdsley

11-23-2016, 11:43 PM

Those are all good responses. Even though, bowenrd i like the most. Probably the licensing and unknown condition of the gun is the best with out ruffling feathers . It's not like I would be lying any how.

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michael.birdsley

11-23-2016, 11:47 PM

Most of them that ask don't want to learn it or want nothing to do with but, they think for whatever reason it will be cheaper, better , and or off the grid or something. The one guy I had almost convinced to buy the stuff to get going and come over and learn but, I forgot his excuse at the time. It's mainly people that I work with

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W.R.Buchanan

11-24-2016, 12:02 AM

michael.birdsley

11-24-2016, 12:21 AM

Mike: If they are too lazy to learn, they are just looking to drag you down. Everyone thinks reloaded ammo is nearly free. It isn't, and if you add in your time it is the same or more expensive.

when people ask me I just say no I don't have the time because I'm behind on my Reloading. Which isn't far from the truth.

Randy

Yeah that's the thing I briefly contemplated doing it for a few people to show them how they could make better ammo and have a hobby. But, besides the safety and legal issues i woke up. it never works out to where they want to do it they just want the ammo with out putting any work in. These are also the same people who think they should be paid just for being at work.

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flyingmonkey35

11-24-2016, 12:37 AM

I tell them i do this for fun. Not to save money. If i do it for you it is work. And it be cheaper to by factory ammo.

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runfiverun

11-24-2016, 01:24 AM

I offer to teach them.

Artful

11-24-2016, 01:38 AM

I offer to teach them.

Winner Winner :drinks:

And I usually start them out on a Lee Turret press not the Dillon

17nut

11-24-2016, 06:00 AM

Time is money!

When you reload for yourself you harvest the benefit of cheap ammo.
If you reload for another person he is harvesting the benefit and have to pay your salary.

When i tell how cheap i can make my own cartridges people cheer, but when i tell how long it takes and what equipment cost they get quiert quickly.

Ask them if they are willing to dig your garden or mowe your lawn and spend the same amount of time you have to invest in their reloads.

NavyVet1959

11-24-2016, 06:52 AM

I'll show 'em how to do it by reloading some ammo for myself, but if they want their own ammo, they need to provide the components and do the work. I'll help them set up the equipment and supervise, but they need to do the work. Of course, they better also bring beer... That's just polite, ya' know... :)

Thumbcocker

11-24-2016, 10:45 AM

OS OK

11-24-2016, 10:51 AM

"No, wish I could but I don't have an FFL license to load for others. Tell you what though...I'll show you what you need to buy and come over to set it up for you and teach you to reload...hows that? You can make your own from then on."

Still no takers. The one time I made exception, 2 years back still hasn't brought back my .45Colt brass he promised to return.

I have taught and continue to teach 2 fellas though recently...At the time we were just plinking and having a good time, they weren't privy to the fact I reload...they brought up reloading and expressed that if they only knew someone that would teach them, they'd love it, said that they have been wanting to learn for years...so in this case I offered. Glad I did, these fellas now are in for the long haul...they are up to their noses in equipment just like the rest of us here.

Best thing to do is just keep it to yourself the fact that you load and cast...when you find one who expresses the desire, is willing to buy equipment, is sound of mind and spirit...well, there's a golden opportunity to make a difference in someones life.

As far as I'm concerned...the rest of them just want a free box of ammo.

Wayne Smith

11-24-2016, 11:29 AM

Like others, I offer to teach. So far, two takers and maybe another soon. We'll see. I have given used equipment to one of them (Arisaka99 on this board, but not active now) and am set up to do the same again for someone who wants to load 38 Special.

Drdarrin

11-24-2016, 11:33 AM

I tell them I'll teach them how to cast and/or load ammo. Most don't have the time but a few go for the reloading lessons.

In my experience, most don't want to take the time. What's important to them is getting ammo cheap not learning a new skill.

But my typical response is "you realize you're asking me to break the law?" Which I can then turn into a teaching moment.

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Lead Fred

11-24-2016, 12:22 PM

Why? Because I make superior ammo than you can buy. Most of the time cheaper too.

No I can not. But you can use my tools, measure your own rifle, and you make them here

BNE

11-24-2016, 12:28 PM

I have offered to teach multiple people. Very few are that interested.

I also don't like telling people that I "Re-load" ammo. I prefer to tell them that I am a "custom bullet crafter".

Our hobby / pastime etc is not cheaper, easier or faster than buying bullets from the store.

Mike W1

11-24-2016, 12:30 PM

Thread brings to mind something Dean Grenell said years ago. If you were to be paid for doing it you'd be working for coolie wages. Not to mention technically it's not legal to do it without a license.

kmrra

11-24-2016, 12:51 PM

I have had this happen many times and I always tell them , for so much a box I will do it , that usually puts and end to it. I do it for myself because I like it and I actually enjoy reloading more than I do shooting. I have my own range here at the house so I do plenty of shooting , but I reload more. Im just now getting back into casting my own bullets again and find this forum very usefull, things have
changed since I last cast 30 + years ago , im going to try the tumble lube this time , If I had to use a Lyman lubrisizer again I dont think I would do it. anyway great forum guys

salpal48

11-24-2016, 01:05 PM

Once I tell them I load, all The Cheap guy come out Of the woodwork. There to Cheap to buy There Own equipment and to Lazy to Learn.. I never let anyone use my equipment. . I either say just "NO". or i say i will have to Charge them. . Never had any one say Ok.
End of discussion

Muddydogs

11-24-2016, 01:41 PM

I don't make excuses or lie about it, it's just no I don't load for other people.

I do have a good friend that I do help load his hunting rounds, I end up preparing his brass just because it's easier for me to do it but when it comes time to reload he comes over to the house and powders his cases. I help him set up the dies and usually end up seating bullets while he is dropping powder. He supplies all his own components and when we both purchased 25-06 rifles he purchased the set of Hornady dies and a few other case prep items.

I don't mind showing people how to reload and helping them with low volume reloading but I will not turn into an ammo plant for someone that wants to pump out 1000 rounds.

mdi

11-24-2016, 01:51 PM

They ask a direct question you give a direct answer. I learned I really don't have to justify my opinions when I got sober 30 years ago. If asked I would politely say "Nope, I make it a policy to not reload for anyone else. I wouldn't want to be responsible for any harm that might come to you from a mistake I might make" Period. No need to fabricate an excuse, just state your reasons, once, and Period...

Ola

11-24-2016, 01:59 PM

Here too it's not legal to load ammo for someone else. But still there are people who insist. Then I just tell the price of the custom ammo. That usually changes their minds.

price = 2x price of higHest quality factory ammo. 3x if asker is someone I do not like.

lightman

11-24-2016, 02:07 PM

I handle this with different methods, depending on who ask. When friends ask, I tell them they can buy a die set and components and come over and we will load together. When others ask, I tell them that there are liability issues and that it requires a license and insurance that I do not have. I try to take every opportunity to bring new people into our hobby, but I will only load for a very small number of people.

dondiego

11-24-2016, 02:18 PM

Strtspdlx

11-24-2016, 03:54 PM

I usually tell them my labor rate is 50/hr. I also rarely get asked to reload for anyone. I sometimes let family members try out my hand loads but never use my reloading stuff. They aren't exactly detail oriented people. I'm also new to reloading so I'm not positive my experience is enough to justify saying I'm knowledgeable on the subject.

psweigle

11-24-2016, 04:05 PM

I tell them that each gun likes a different size shape and weight of bullet. There is much measuring and the process can be rough at times. I do this for the enjoyment and satisfaction of the project. Most of the time they leave it at that.

jsizemore

11-24-2016, 05:09 PM

Even though most folks don't want to take the time to learn, I have taught a couple beginners that now load with their sons. How cool is that!!!!

I have a father and son team that shoots 3 gun that I help with some reloading problems that crop up. I also coach the son in offhand shooting.

The time I spend with just a few helps to guarantee the continuation of our endeavor.

Tom W.

11-24-2016, 07:04 PM

I taught my sons,well two of them anyway, and did load a box or two for my late buddy every season. The people at work think I'm somewhat of an enigma, because I know more about the firearm hobby and related subjects than all of them combined. It's not a brag on my account, but rather a sad statement about the co-workers. I brought a cast bullet to give to a co-worker and he showed it to someone else . They thought it was steel that was turned on a lathe. I,too, tell them that they could buy ammo cheaper than I will make it, especially 9mm. One fellow wants to learn, but I'm hesitant to teach him. A huge percentage of the co-workers are convicted felons, and I don't want to become involved in any activities that includes them.

Chris C

11-24-2016, 07:30 PM

When I mention to people I load my own rounds, I get many different responses. One, of course, is.........."would you load some for me?". I tell them "no", but come over and watch me reload and see how it's done. It's funny, eight out of ten never bother, and two will actually show up. One of the two will say it's too much trouble and the other.............well, you can see the sparkle in his eye. :wink: I've had two that have started loading themselves. Makes you feel good.

lawboy

11-24-2016, 07:30 PM

They ask a direct question you give a direct answer.

this. I love telling people no, with a smile on my face and love in my heart. Screw them. Take some responsibility and do the work for yourself. Now, if they want to learn to cast, I am all in. I never turn away a responsible student. But do it for them? Hell will freeze over first!

garym1a2

11-24-2016, 07:31 PM

I only loss

I only load for my brothers and I tell them if they give them to others I won't load them any more.

NoAngel

11-24-2016, 07:47 PM

Tell them it's $250 per round. That's a $1 per round for the ammo and $249 per round to cover the legal fee when someone sues you when [insert various catastrophic calamities]

They'll get the message. If not, no need to continue with polite conversation.

gefiltephish

11-24-2016, 09:26 PM

I've found that as a general rule for life, whenever someone asks me to do something I don't want to do I reply with a simple "no" and absolutely nothing else. This results in a deer-in-the-headlights look, often slackjawed, because I didn't give them anything to further leverage the conversation with. It can be downright comical to watch the reaction, sometimes stuttering/stamering, they simply don't know what to follow up with. This technique works just as well, if not better, on the phone.

Tazza

11-25-2016, 12:00 AM

Over here, you'd go broke if you have to buy factory ammo all the time. But our shooting community is smaller, as we need to be a member of a club to own guns.

It doesn't take long for people to understand each gun likes different shaped projectiles and different loads to get the best performance from them. They jump into reloading for that reason and cost. Then it comes to the brand of press, red or blue......

I don't load for other people because IF something was to go wrong and they damaged their gun, i don't want them coming to me about it. I do sell projectiles to fellow shooters, but they take all the risks of the loading process. If the projectile is sized, i have done my part, what they put behind it is out of my control.

I have a friend that loaded some ammo for a mate of his, he must have had a low charge as he bulged his glock barrel. He felt really bad about it and offered to replace it. But they both understood it was an accident and paid their own ways. But if it was someone else and it blew up, he could have been in a world of hurt with legal action.

I'm happy to teach people how to reload, they can come use my gear if they bring the consumables.

waco

11-25-2016, 12:54 AM

I learned I really don't have to justify my opinions when I got sober 30 years ago. If asked I would politely say "Nope, I make it a policy to not reload for anyone else. I wouldn't want to be responsible for any harm that might come to you from a mistake I might make" Period. No need to fabricate an excuse, just state your reasons, once, and Period...

I like this . And congrats on 30 years of being sober.

Blackwater

11-25-2016, 09:32 AM

I usually just tell them "Nope. Can't reload for you, but if you're willing to learn, I'll teach you how to do it for yourself." This generally separates them into two groups. The first, who only want to use you to save $$$ always say they don't have the time for that, and the matter is settled by THEIR own response.

The 2nd, are those who say, "You'd teach me how? How long would that take?" Those are the folks who you have a decent shot at making into reloader/casters. Just make sure you keep your word. And I always start by giving them a manual to read the front sections of, so we'll be able to communicate effectively when we begin the hands on processes. When you lose someone in handing them the book to read, you can know you've just saved yourself a lot of time. If they won't even read a manual, they really don't need to be reloading. That's a very simple and unescapable truth! Some folks think even cooking is "too much trouble" for them to engage in. I don't understand the thinking such people use, but I can't pretend it's not out there.

Oh! And the biggest reason I explain why I reload and cast, is that I can ALWAYS use the same load my guns are sighted in for, and I also note that these days, chances of getting the exact same load when you go to get some new ammo is very, very slim, and if you use another load, you need to re-sight or at least shoot part of it up to confirm your gun's sighted in. If that doesn't register with them, there's really no help for those types.

jmorris

11-25-2016, 10:30 AM

how do you tell them no with out coming across as one you don't know what your doing or just being jerk about it.

I tell them to come over some time and I'll teach them how and they can load as many rounds as they have components for.

dondiego

11-25-2016, 02:38 PM

country gent

11-25-2016, 03:51 PM

I have started a few out reloading and casting over the years. Te most recent was a family member. We started doing the brass prep deburring and chamfering, a light trimming to square the brass, I showed him how the uniformer worked and what it did for primer pockets ( handgun rounds I dont uniform primer pockets ), Showed him the burrs inside the case on the flash hole and how to remove them ( again I seldom do this on pistol rounds). Set him up with a hand primer seating primers and had him going good. He was seating a primer then setting cases into a loading block mouth down. I set up a powder measure in the stand. He came over and we set for the charge of powder according to the books. First thing he said was We could bump that up a bit and make stronger loads. I explained that firearms were desighned around certain pressure ranges and levels, that "bumping" up the charge and more powerful loads would 1) create excess pressure, 2) accelerate wear on a expensive firearm, and last possibly be beyond the firearms level and destroy it. He could understand this or accept it. On the brass prep he questioned everything wanting to know if it was neccesary to do, not why or reason for it. We did load 100 rds for his handgun and made a page of notes on the loads as to dimensions, tooling used, Brass prep, load data, And crimp dia. I was told this sheet he threw away when he got home. All the others were more than safe and listened asking pertinant questions. He was the first "problem" child the group. I would rather teach a person to do this than do it for them. Same amount of time is involved maybe a little more but when done they understand alot more and Im not spending the time everytime they need ammo. Teaching them is a 1 time thing ussually, Although 1 gent has me over everytiome he starts a new caliber to help him set dies and decide on starting powders and charges. But His wife is a good cook and I get supper for my help too. LOL. What Im trying to point out here is you also need to be a little choosy on who you teach to load at times also. Some arnt of the correct mind set or mechanically inclined enough to do this.

JMax

11-25-2016, 03:59 PM

I start by saying I graciously decline but if they are interested I will recommend a few good reloading manuals, once they have gotten past that point I recommend what equipment to purchase, usually a good turret (Redding preferred), dies, powder scale, I will give them a loading block and when it arrives I will help them set up a loading bench and train them at their home. I have had two take me up on my offer and they load like crazy and have added a Dillon in one case and a Lee in the other that soon replaced it with a Dillon.

I do do not want every individual who may be interested in loading to visit my loading/gun room as they will blab on what they see. I am an old LEO and have limited trust with the general population as people love to talk and they do not need to know.

trapper9260

11-25-2016, 04:12 PM

I tell them they need to buy the supplies and need to be there and I will show them how to do it.That turn them off mainly. Because they just want the ammo done up and not put there time into it.

robg

11-25-2016, 05:31 PM

Had to reload to afford to shoot.plumber friend showed me the basics then I read as much as I could find .now 30 odd years later I've given a basic introduction to hand loading to half a dozen guys .won't load for anybody but will help them set up at home if they want but I use a room in our club to show the basics as my wamadet press is portable .the are some I won't help ,you know the type ,want to hot rod every round.

NavyVet1959

11-25-2016, 06:08 PM

I do do not want every individual who may be interested in loading to visit my loading/gun room as they will blab on what they see. I am an old LEO and have limited trust with the general population as people love to talk and they do not need to know.

Unlike you, I don't discriminate against LEOs and "general population".

I have "limited trust" with EVERYONE (even LEOs).

Yep... Curmudgeon... That's me... :)

michael.birdsley

11-25-2016, 06:27 PM

Had to reload to afford to shoot.plumber friend showed me the basics then I read as much as I could find .

That's what made me start to reload and cast. Plus it's nice to be self reliant as far as ammo is concerned. With plated 9mm bullets I can make them for half of what the stores charge. So I can load up 100 rounds for what the average person can buy 50 rounds for. Cast will be even less. I wouldn't mind teaching people and have offered but, they never take me up on it. They don't understand that components and equipment isn't cheap. I also tell them you don't save money but, can shoot more with the same money.

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dave 45-90

11-25-2016, 08:34 PM

Winner Winner :drinks:

And I usually start them out on a Lee Turret press not the Dillon

Bingo Give the man a cigar

dave 45-90

11-25-2016, 08:37 PM

:drinks:
I offer to teach them.

Bingo Another Cigar

762 shooter

11-25-2016, 10:40 PM

An offer to teach and assist will get rid of 99 out of 100. Teach the one left.

762

granville_it

11-25-2016, 11:47 PM

Agree with Tazza.

Cheers Mark

11-26-2016, 12:37 AM

It is the same with deer meat people always ask if I will give them some deer meat. I guess they think its free meat for me I just go to the woods and shoot a deer and have instant meat lol. I tell them I trade them for some ribeye or a pork side and they think that is just crazy. Funny how they ask too by making a comment such as ( Man I love to have a back strap ) I just say ( I love to have a couple of porter house about a inch thick)
And as far as reloading I offer to teach had a few come over to look but that's as far as it went to much work for them I guess.

retread

11-26-2016, 01:33 AM

I have friends who come over frequently to cast and to load. I instruct, then keep a close eye on them as they load their own. It is a good time to fellowship and enjoying each others company while making up some ammo for the range. Those same folks are the ones who frequently go to the range with me. Safety is first we me and they respect that. They are learning and contributing to all costs. By loading their own they relieve me of liability and gain experience for when they decide to take the plunge. I am not particularly concerned that they buy their own equipment soon as I enjoy their company during our weekly sessions. I start them out on a single stage press before going to the 550.

Bigslug

11-26-2016, 01:40 AM

"Load for you? Next thing I know, you'll be asking for food stamps and an Obama phone"

robg

11-26-2016, 05:38 PM

When asked to reload for some one, say yep sure and I'll shoot them for them too.

RogerDat

11-26-2016, 11:29 PM

I guess I'm just lucky have had a total three friends that didn't ask for a "freebie" but were interested in material and equipment costs, and how much reloading it took for equipment to pay for itself.

Two of them were very good friends getting hammered by high ammo costs and looking for an alternative for some mild plinking ammo I provided some as a gift for them to try out. One followed up by coming over and working through the process on a press. Not sure if he is just curious or will follow up. The other passed away.

The third came over to check out some equipment and I guided him through loading some 45 ACP to test out. He then went out and bought his own Lee turret and started loading 9mm and hitting the range every week. Now he moved on to a Lee progressive for 9mm and has started loading .380 for his wife on the turret.

These are friends that I trust to pay attention to warnings about squib, double charge, or FTF. and none of them is the type that is inclined to sue for a willingly accepted risk. I will say these were 100% powder measure set short and trickle up on the scale for final load. I'm not willing to charge friends materials to make a box of 50 rounds.

If the one friend decides he wants to come over and load some 44 mag for himself I have no doubt he will offer to pay for materials, I have no problem selling him a pound of powder and some primers which he can leave here. As for the lead all I can say is I have plenty of lead and if I cast for it anyway then I probably have piles of bullets for it or they can buy a mold.

I haven't had strangers or acquaintances asking for bullets, my answer would be not legal for me to manufacture for others, and like a couple of others already mentioned I am fussy about who comes over to my home so not inviting casual acquaintances here to use equipment.

Hickok

11-27-2016, 08:00 AM

Truthfully, I tell them my reloading equipment/loads and dies are set up specifically for my rifles and handguns, and I can't change any settings for other peoples firearms.

Shiloh

11-27-2016, 10:12 AM

Simple answer in a word, NO.
You don't load for others and you don't shoot others reloads. Word gets around. They will quit asking.

Shiloh

matrixcs

11-27-2016, 11:08 AM

I am still waiting for any of the folks I offered to use my equipment to assemble their components into ammo...
I suspect the wait will continue....

sandman228

11-27-2016, 07:01 PM

ive been reloading/casting about 10 years. ive had a handful or 2 that have asked and 1 arrogant jerk even expected me to reload for life if he bought a gun I was interested in selling. I tell them either I don't load for the caliber they want ,or I just flat out tell them its too much liability to sell reloads . I had a coworker in the past that joined the club I shoot at and became a shooting buddy I would occasionally GIVE not sell him a few boxes of 9mm and 38/357 once in a while only because he gave me all his once fired brass plus any range brass he could pick up. he really liked to shoot allot and kept the brass rolling in too .

mdi

11-28-2016, 01:11 PM

I was thinking about this last Sunday at Church (not during the sermon!). I realized I would say "No" to a casual acquaintance, but also say "No" to my Pastor, a man I admire and love. Just a simple, polite "no I'd rather not"...

B. Lumpkin

11-28-2016, 01:15 PM

It's easy! Here is my response: No.

A complete sentence with one word. Marvelous.

Texantothecore

11-29-2016, 11:15 AM

I have told a number of friends no due to liabilities as well as licensing. My offer to teach them generally falls on deaf ears. I have taught several engineers to reload and they reload a lot of rounds per year.

One guy who knew I reloaded called 9:30 pm on a Thursday night and asked me to run up 200 rounds for Saturday morning. I said no. I haven't heard from him for several years.

Tazza

11-29-2016, 03:51 PM

Well that was down right rude, why didn't you do his reloading for him? the nerve of some people! :)

I let people use my ammo in my gun, i have handed a few rounds over to people to test in their guns when they were having ammo issues. If it worked for them, i let them know the load i'm using, but that's as far as it goes.

castalott

11-29-2016, 04:19 PM

Simple answer in a word, NO.
You don't load for others and you don't shoot others reloads. Word gets around. They will quit asking.

Shiloh

Not shooting unknown reloads is a great idea too!

In 1976 a guy at work had an eight inch 629 just like Dirty Harry. A box of shells was a days wages... "I reload..want to watch?" He made 3 rounds as I watched and I was hooked! I could have bought a new Mercedes for what that little demo did to me over the next 40 years....

But I'm happy....

I'm sure the savings will kick in any minute!!!!!

Kenstone

11-29-2016, 05:13 PM

I was accused of reloading because I'm too cheap to buy ammo, yet this guy buys the cheapest chit he can find, I let that slide...until our next range session.

After he had several failures related to ammo and whining about the point of impact was way low, with his fixed sight guns, I mentioned maybe reloading would help.

I could actually see the light go on over his head:idea:.
It was then that the question was asked...and I answered no, but I'll teach you.
:mrgreen:

RogerDat

11-29-2016, 07:20 PM

I was at a reloading supply table in a gun show next to a guy with his right hand all bandaged up, and the parts that weren't looked red and chewed up. He admitted that he had a gun blow up but it couldn't have been his fault because (I am not making this up BTW)
A). The guy that taught him several decades ago had really good equipment and knew his stuff. I think this was supposed to translate as I was well taught.
B). The gun should have been able to handle at least a double charge without failure. They have to after all there is a law or something.

The man was buying pistol powder so I guess making more was in his future but he did say it was hard to do everything left handed because the fingers they were able to stitch back onto his right had no feeling or coordination "yet". Can't think of a better reason to not use other peoples reloads then think of that last statement from the "injured party". Then ask yourself what hand you shoot with and is it the same one you sign your name or wipe with.

Find one of those pictures of injuries from a firearm failure, or even two or three pictures. Put the gory pictures on your phone. Tell people they have to sign a waiver saying if any of this happens to them or anyone else using your ammunition that you are not liable or responsible.

Tazza

11-29-2016, 08:39 PM

RogerDat

11-29-2016, 09:04 PM

YIKES

All guns are made to handle double charges? this is news to me :)

Thankfully, i physically can't fit enough powder in my .38 super to over charge it and cause an issue, yet an idiot (me) can mess up and not put powder in one and have the second round clear it.......

Sounds like whatever he was using was pretty big to do that sort of damage. I like the no feeling YET, for injuries like that, i'd have guessed they would never work right again....

Derringer - my thinking is either prior round was as you describe a squib that left barrel obstructed or possibly both barrels with double charge.... Those little two barrel fellows don't have much gun around the case to dissipate energy by guns destruction.

Took me about 3 - 5 years to get mobility and feeling (most of it anyway) back in a couple fingers after a boxers fracture that required surgery to reposition the bones. Last two fingers wouldn't curl at all for a couple of years, by the end of 5 I could wrap my hand around stuff, took a long time for strength to come back (no nerves = no muscle action). I was also around 20 and this guy was closer to 70. Me I seem to recall I healed a whole lot better back then than I do now and I'm still shy of 60.

One thing is for certain not getting any use back from the parts that they couldn't sew back on. Mr. booger picker was seriously shortened. Think a joint from thumb also as I recall.
Think this picture would work for a start on the "if this happens I'm not responsible" it also happens to be a lot like that fellows injuries except he had some more bits missing.
http://www.kazak.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/explode-hand.jpg

I'm not ever going to get the picture of what happens with pistol powder in a rifle out of my brain. This all makes me think I should spend more time with a muzzle loader.

MaLar

11-29-2016, 09:17 PM

I'm too blunt. My friends know this and accept it. Sorry honesty is easiest. I tell them I don't have the time to do my own.
No time for yours.

IllinoisCoyoteHunter

11-29-2016, 09:25 PM

I straight up just tell them no for the liability reason. I then tell them that if they want to come over to my house and press out some rounds that I would be more than happy to teach them. I have probably said this to no less than 50 people over the years and have had 2 takers. They are now happy reloaders with their own equipment. Does that make me an enabler???

acoop101

11-29-2016, 10:42 PM

I am always willing to teach and divert that way. Also I use the I DON'T have the time, and I am just keeping up with my own shooting.

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dondiego

12-01-2016, 01:00 PM

Derringer - my thinking is either prior round was as you describe a squib that left barrel obstructed or possibly both barrels with double charge.... Those little two barrel fellows don't have much gun around the case to dissipate energy by guns destruction.

Took me about 3 - 5 years to get mobility and feeling (most of it anyway) back in a couple fingers after a boxers fracture that required surgery to reposition the bones. Last two fingers wouldn't curl at all for a couple of years, by the end of 5 I could wrap my hand around stuff, took a long time for strength to come back (no nerves = no muscle action). I was also around 20 and this guy was closer to 70. Me I seem to recall I healed a whole lot better back then than I do now and I'm still shy of 60.

One thing is for certain not getting any use back from the parts that they couldn't sew back on. Mr. booger picker was seriously shortened. Think a joint from thumb also as I recall.
Think this picture would work for a start on the "if this happens I'm not responsible" it also happens to be a lot like that fellows injuries except he had some more bits missing.
http://www.kazak.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/explode-hand.jpg

I'm not ever going to get the picture of what happens with pistol powder in a rifle out of my brain. This all makes me think I should spend more time with a muzzle loader.

I wish that I hadn't clicked on that picture! OUCH! That is my favorite hand too.

blue32

12-11-2016, 03:44 AM

I'm amazed at all the people who offer to teach others reloading. I was given a Blue Press magazine in 2008 and told to figure it out. I didn't meet another caster until after I had been doing it for a year. Several have asked for my reloads but I've yet to have a copy of Blue Press when they do.

Griff

12-11-2016, 03:30 PM

My B-I-L and older sister just started shooting a couple of years ago... both in their mid-60's... both have got their CHL (CCW for other places), and about 3 months ago my B-I-L asked me about my recommendations for reloading equipment (progressive). They both know I've been reloading and casting for about 40+ years. Since they ARE family, I told the BIL, "why buy, I'll send you my old, RCBS Jr press, and you can use it to learn to reload. And let me know when he got Lyman's Reloading Handbook, I'll mail you the press." No loss, I have 3 other single stages & two Dillons.

A couple days later he calls, in the gun store and wants to know should he buy the 49th or the 50th edition? I said either, but the 50th has a couple of calibers and some updated info not in the 49th... ( least from my quick perusal of my copy). I disassembled the press, losing the spring clip in the top of the ram in the process, (ain't the folks at RCBS great?), and sent off the press along with a list of other pieces of equipment he'd need. (powder drop, balance beam scale, primer flipper, dies and case checker in the caliber he was going to load for? That started a whole new round of discussion about what brand to buy...

He called and said I was cruel... assembling the press was a real learning experience in and of itself. (Have you ever disassembled and cleaned yours)? But... he now knows that press, inside and out, how it works, why it works and has the basic knowledge that he needn't call me at 2am my time with a question!

Over the years, I've had folks ask me to load ammo for them, ... always gave them the same answer, "I'm not properly licensed to load for others, and my aversion to jail is greater than your desire for cheap ammo. But, if you want to learn, here's a book to read first..." Always the Lyman Reloading Handbook out at the time. A few have bought the book, fewer still have come back to actually sit in on a lesson... fewer still are reloading themselves. Like less than 4. Now, among shooters that I have competed with in a couple different disciplines, different story... but generally, the same answer... mostly competitors that learned early on, they could actually practice and get better if they rolled their own. With the advent of the internet, and all that it opens up, I see a lot of posters on at least one forum... they want to know everyone else's formula for their load... they get the same answer, "buy Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook."

While I might go off the reservation and experiment with reduced loads, or push the limits of a cartridge... I ain't putting myself out there giving away information that I developed over 40 years of this "hobby"... I do of course offer a line of investigation to pursue if they are really interested. Generally, I get few responses, as someone else is all too happy to share their favorite concoction! As my Dad used to tell me, if someone's trying to talk you into something, they've probably found themselves in a pile of manure... and really only want company!

And for those that say, "just say, no." Did you have someone help you learn? If not, okay... but if you did, how are you paying that forward? Sure am glad that fellar that taught me the basics, didn't just say "no."

Blammer

12-11-2016, 03:47 PM

$2 a round is my labor fee.... how many do you want?

usually I hear crickets chirping....

Jugband

12-11-2016, 05:02 PM

So this weekend is basically about the one year mark that I have been reloading/casting. When I tell people I do this I get one or do responses. The first one being is why? Which that one usually doesn't bother I tell them and than they think it is cool. The second one being "can you load me up some rounds". Usually I kind of fumble around and tell them i just don't have such and such dies or powder. It's not I don't trust my self to do it but, things can and do go wrong. If something went wrong I'd rather it happen to me and not the other person for obvious reasons. Only person I would consider is my brother. But, how do you tell them no with out coming across as one you don't know what your doing or just being jerk about it.

Why?? Don't get into the "Why" because that will just get you to the "Me Too" more quickly.

As for the second part, tell them that it's against federal law for you to manufacture ammo for sale and when they assure you that they won't tell

As for the supply question, just tell them that it's illegal for you to do it for money and free is out of the question because of the time and effort, even if they buy all the components then give them to you, and buy you new dies & shellholders, etc.

When they say that they won't tell anyone, which will absolutely be the next thing out of their mouth, point out that Accidents Happen.

Gun barrels get obstructed and blow up, accidental discharges shoot gun owners or others around them, and people sometimes just have a legitimate need to shoot other people. If any one of those things happened, or something else unforeseeable, someone in authority is going to be putting in some thought about the gun and it's ammo.

When that happens, it might not be them doing the telling.

So not selling it and not giving it away either is completely reasonable and valid. It should be end of discussion, and without anyone seeming The Bad Guy.

If it's not enough, you shouldn't worry about them considering you a jerk about it... who but a jerk would continue to press you after that point?

oldblinddog

12-11-2016, 07:50 PM

My answer: You can't afford me, but I will tell you what BOOK to buy.

LabGuy

12-11-2016, 08:55 PM

Lets see, if I pay myself minimum wage, it will cost... well a lot. I did did reload for someone in the early 1980s. I would happily teach someone. What the heck I'm a NRA Reloading Instructor.

2ndAmendmentNut

12-11-2016, 11:21 PM

Winner Winner :drinks:

And I usually start them out on a Lee Turret press not the Dillon

No, I offer to teach them and make them use one of those little Lee kits that requires a hammer.

In all seriousness I don't even talk about reloading unless the other individual happens to be a hand loader as well. I used to offer but only ever had one taker, and that was not a great experience.

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michael.birdsley

12-12-2016, 04:57 PM

Lets see, if I pay myself minimum wage, it will cost... well a lot. I did did reload for someone in the early 1980s. I would happily teach someone. What the heck I'm a NRA Reloading Instructor.

How do you like being a reloading instructor?

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Blackwater

12-12-2016, 05:53 PM

People just don't habitually think these days. They'll ask all sorts of things. But when you look at them with a big, wry grin, and ask if they'll come over and do some work for free for YOU, they kind'a get the message. The only people I'll reload for now is some young folks who I know and trust and respect, and that's usually just a gift, gratis, and tell them if those loads work well for them, I'll teach them how to get started loading their own and saving money. But I also warn them that it won't really save much money, because they'll just wind up shooting a lot more for the same amount of money. Once they reaload, I try to introduce them to casting, which can REALLY save them a LOT of money. Once they get hooked on shooting more, it's hard NOT to respond to the ability to shoot for as close to "free" as one can get. And the important thing is starting them off reading a good manual. Speer and Lyman are my favorites for a beginning reloader, but all are pretty darn good. When they start to ask good questions, and you see the light go on when you answer them, you know you've just raised one more reloader you can have fun with.

With ammo costs so high, marksmanship is taking a beating among most shooters. Only a reloader really stands a great chance at becoming a really good shot, and then, only if he seeks to become good with his guns. As Bill Jordan said in "No Second Place Winner," all of recorded history fails to record a single instance of a bad guy dying because of a quick, loud noise. Only hits count, and this applies on targets, afield for game, and for self defense. Too many folks buy a gun and a box of ctgs. and think they're "ready" now! We're never ready until we can place our bullets precisely. But the cheapskates don't tend to care about that, and go on believing what they want to believe, rather than what makes sense. It's almost a communicable disease these days!

Everybody has wants and desires, but to imagine they're rational when they're not is a good way to wind up with much regrets. And why someone wouldn't want to learn something new escapes me, but then, I guess I'm cut from a different mold than many today. It seems we've had so many things so easy in our lives today, many think they can have anything they want, just for the asking. It's an extension of the "entitlement mentality" seeping into folks' minds who really ought to know better. Impulse seems to be the order of the day, but look where that always leads, and it's a powerful motivator to do something different and more intellectually rational.

This doesn't just happen with reloaders, but all sorts of things. Truly, we really are the "ME" generation! We seldom consider anything else, and most folks are really jovial until you confront them with the simple content of their questions. I figure if they're willing to insult and/or take advantage of me, turnaround is fair play, and if they get offended, I always ask why it's OK for them to take advantage of me, and not visa versa. This usually shuts them up, and ceases a useless conversation. Occasionally, when we meet again later, they'll apologize, and I'm always kind and cordial with them unless they give me another reason to be otherwise. A few have actually later become reloaders. Not many, but a few.

Pour water in a glass, and it'll slosh up one side and then the other, but it always levels out given a little time. Dumb questions from folks who don't have their minds engaged at the time are a lot like that too.

Doggonekid

12-12-2016, 06:50 PM

I had that question asked to me the day before Thanksgiving. On Thanksgiving day I had him over to my garage and we casted boolits for several hours. I may of created a boolit monster. He now wants to get started on his own. The only questions he asks me now is where can he buy all the stuff he needs. If someone has a genuine interest I glad to teach them. If all they want is cheep ammo I just say; I don't load for anybody but myself. It get easer to say each time someone asks.

Beef15

12-12-2016, 08:01 PM

For someone you like tell them to bring their brass a pound of powder and some primers and you will let them use your equipment. Have not had any takers yet. Most people think reloading = free ammo for them.
This has pretty much been my experience. One guy did come by and watch me load a few and I let him run a few through the press.

I just tell people no. No excuses. If you aren't family you aren't getting/shooting any. I'm a mechanic by trade, people are stupid. My reloads will not hurt a thing, but just like changing a car battery magically makes the brakes squeek three weeks later, my ammo will likely be blamed if 500 factory rounds later the mag catch fails. I get married to enough things.

pjames32

12-13-2016, 02:43 PM

I offer to let them watch me reload, then offer to teach them if they want. I always start with a single stage press, often mine with the dies they have purchased, then they can buy their own equipment.
Not often do they accept my offer, but I've had a few over the years that have made it past the first demo.
PJ

LabGuy

12-13-2016, 05:31 PM

How do you like being a reloading instructor?

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I have been an NRA instructor for about 3 years. I enjoy learning and teaching. Reloading has not been a very a very popular class, but then again I still have my day job and don't advertise. I have a Bass Pro Shop very close that does regular reloading workshops for free. That's hard to compete with. I have only taught two using the NRA curriculum.

Nanook

12-13-2016, 09:43 PM

I've had several acquaintances over the years want me to "load some up for me" and I used the no license argument. I usually got the ol' "who's gonna know?" line in return. I'll know, and if anything at all goes wrong with that gun, everybody will know where the ammo came from. And that's even if it had nothing to do with the loads.
I offered lessons as well, and got no takers.

Too technical for some, I guess. Too many details to people raised on television to remember maybe. Or it could be the "get me something for nothing" mindset so prevalent in recent years.

The_Hammer

12-13-2016, 09:45 PM

I always tell them that I don't shoot other people's reloads and that I suggest they do the same. If I'm going to eff up I'd rather it be me that eats than someone else.

Texantothecore

12-13-2016, 11:09 PM

A lot of people I speak to are convinced that reloading equipment is very expensive and that it is also difficult to do. I thought that for years until I bumped into Lee Precision.

The only conversation I had earlier than that was one in which the speaker said it would cost 700 bucks to get set up. So I waited a good number of years to research and found out that azzhole was playing the one-upmanship card on me. Nine years later I discovered that it was dirt cheap and I picked a Lee single stage and I was off to the races.

I reload at the range and someone will ask what I'm doing as I use my Lee Classic Loader between shooting sessions. They are shocked when I tell them that my reloading kit cost 28.99.
"But I thought reloading equipment was expensive"
"28.99 plus shipping" I reply.
I then teach them to reload, have them do 5 to 10 rounds, hand them my gun and tell them to go shoot their first reloads.
At some point during the reloading of their own roundS the will say " It can't possibly be this easy."
I reply "it is exactly that easy."

Play the role of teacher, not big *** equipment freak with money to burn.

JeffinNZ

12-14-2016, 08:22 AM

NavyVet1959

12-14-2016, 06:50 PM

I see you are the rip old age of 31. In twenty years you will have transitioned into the age group where you don't feel the need to be polite anyone in such situations. I am borderline there already. [smilie=1:

I've been at that point for quite awhile... Curmudgeon Extraordinaire...

On a side note, that will probably mean that if I outlive my wife, I will die alone and no one will know I'm dead until my body has mummified itself. All my bills are set up to pay automatically, so it's likely no one will know I'm dead for a LONG time.

JWT

12-14-2016, 07:04 PM

so it's likely no one will know I'm dead for a LONG time.

The IRS won't forget you.

Tazza

12-14-2016, 07:08 PM

The tax man will know :)

You joke about that, yet i remember something in the UK years ago, an old lady was dead for like a decade before someone actually checked. So it does happen.

I am a member on another forum, a moderator mate on there wasn't heard from for a month or two, i sent emails but had no reply. We later found out he had a heart attack and died after some detective work, googling his name and found an obituary notice. Found his daughter through facebook and got the bad news that it was indeed him.

So people you get to know on forums and so forth, you never know if something happened if you don't see them posting.

Tazza

12-14-2016, 07:12 PM

JWT - I was too slow to hit enter on my post, you beat me to it.

NavyVet1959

12-15-2016, 01:29 AM

The IRS won't forget you.

Well, being dead, I probably won't have *too* much income... :)

Assuming I'm on Social Security (damn ponzi scheme) at that time, I guess I will have *some* income that might get reported to the IRS. Very few (if any) of the stocks I own pay much in dividends or it gets rolled over and is protected from taxes until I withdraw the money from that account, so there's not going to be much income from that aspect if I'm dead. Last I heard, the IRS doesn't break down doors, they just send letters and if you ignore them, they put a lien on your house or just blatantly steal the money from your bank accounts, so I could be quite dehydrated before they ever tried to visit my house. The postal worker *might* notice a lot of mail piling up in my mailbox, but that implies that they actually *care* about what sort of job they do. Considering all the misdirected mail in my subdivision, I doubt that is the case.