Choosing a Silhouette rifle, Advice?

[Thundermaker]

I know Highwalls are supposed to be top of the line for BPCR matches, but I want a sharps. I'm looking at several options at the moment.

1. Lyman 1878 (I know. It's really an 1877, but, copyright laws being what they are, they couldn't call it that.) It's a little on the light side for a long range gun, being modeled after the rifles used in creedmore matches, which limited rifles to 10 lbs max. That being said, it seems to be the most bang for my buck. It has the pistolgrip stock, double set triggers, globe sight, and the lighter hammer would, in theory, give me a quicker lock time than an 1874. The price isn't bad (for a sharps). It could also double as a hunting rifle.

2. Pedersoli sharps business. Has a little more meat on it's bones at 11lbs. Barrel is longer. That might help with powder efficiency. Has factory double set triggers. It is a straight stock though.

3. Buy an action from dixie gun works and build it myself. I don't know if this is a great option. Seems like I'll have more money in it than the above two options, and I don't know that I'd get better results.

I took a brief look at shiloh, but that's a bit more money than I want to sink into a new hobby, unless someone has a reason why they are just head and shoulders above the Italian guns.

So, I'd like some input from BPCR shooters. Also, does anyone know anything about those actions that dixie is selling? The description says to use kasonite(spelling?) case hardening compound in them. Are they not hardened from the factory? Can't seem to get a straight answer from dixie.

[ascast]

if it says to use Kasonite, it is not case hardened. If it was, you could not file or otherwise finish it.
I shot a Sharps '75 business rifle in .38-55. It was available with no wait at a time when 1-2 years wait what talked about. I never lost a ram for lack of power. That caliber will get you more shooting for your money, more practice. You will win or lose on off hand shooting chickens, not lost rams. But if you shoot in high wind or beyond 600yd (500m) you will probably be happier with a 40 or 45.
You can't go wrong with a 45-70, better hunter too, I think. Brass will always be available. more bullets
I can't help you with your rifle choice but to say this : if you want to shoot, buy a rifle made. If you want to build one, OK but you won't be shooting for years.
Highwalls-? maybe, I'd take a Hepburn first every time. my 2 cents good luck

[Thundermaker]

But if you shoot in high wind or beyond 600yd (500m) you will probably be happier with a 40 or 45.
I can't help you with your rifle choice but to say this : if you want to shoot, buy a rifle made. If you want to build one, OK but you won't be shooting for years.

The matches go to 1000 yards around here. I've considered 40-65 and 45/70. I'm leaning 45/70 because I can buy hunting ammo off the shelf if I decide to take it to the woods.

If I build, I'll be the one to build it. The only advantage that offers me is that I have a local guy who can cut me a barrel with any length and throat configuration I want.

[country gent]

SOunds like you know what you want pretty much. I have several rifles that I shoot for shilouettes. 1 is a CPA in 40-65, 2 is a CSharps Highwall in 38-55 with a 12 twist barrel, 3 is a CSharps Remington Hepburn in 45-90, and 4 is a pedersoli Long range ( cabellas version) in 45-70. Last is a remington rolling block out being built in a 38-55. The CPA is a reproductio of the Stevens 44 1/2 very strong and well balanced at 11lbs. The barrel is a douglas 1-16 twist and does 400-425 grn bullets very accuratly. It has double sset triggers also. The bigger plus is the CPAs are set up for swap barrels so a new caliber is only the cost of a barrel and extractor "maybe". Its a very nice rifle and does very well. The Highwall is 38-55 with 12 twist mcgowen barrel for the 350-365 grn bullets, these do better in the wind than the lighter bullets and hit plenty hard for rams. Its a 30" long barrel with single set triggers pistol grip stock. Again a very good rifle and very competitive. The 38-55 has a light recoil and powder and lead last longer. The Hepburn is in 45-90, a little much for shilouettes but it does a good job. this rifle has a 34" green mountain 1-18 twist barrel, double set triggers, pistol grip stock with cheekpiece, A very accurate rifle and very competitive recoil is a little heavy for a full days match though. The pedersoli is the cabellas long range model with pistol grip double set triggers 34" barrel 1-18 twist half round contour, It shoots very well and is competitive but its about 6-8ozs over weight for NRA sanctioned matches. Again a very competitive rifle. If shooting the tang appeture sights the side hammer isnt a big issue but if you scope it the side hammer is harder to load around than the lower centered hammers of the others. The centered hammers also seem to have a faster lock time. WHat I would recomend is attend some SHows or matches and handle some rifles and see what feels right to you. The lighter calibers do well and extend shooting for the same amount of powder and lead. Te 550 grn bullets for the 45-90 really drain a lead pot fast LOL. The 40s and 38s lead goes alot farther recoil is easier, and rifles can be a little lighter. Decide on what you want on the rifle and sights triggers and wood then work from there.

[Baja_Traveler]

I don't know about a Highwall being top of the line, Hepburn definitely - 75% of all the rifles I see on the BPCR line are Shilo or C. Sharps rifles. You can't go wrong with either one of those - find a good used rifle and you can sell it for what you paid later on when you decide to move on.

I had a very nice Shilo picked up used, but decided I wanted a CPA more, so sold it for what I paid and got the CPA, which I'm very happy with. Nice thing about the CPA is barrels can be easily swapped, I have .22, 38-50, 45-70 and 45-90 barrels for it.

[Boz330]

This is the rifle I caught on sale from Cabela's and have shot it in competition out to 1200yd. It is light enough to hunt with although I'd hate to carry it all day. It has the pistol grip and a shotgun butt plate. It absolutely was the easiest rifle that I've ever worked a load up for. The stock is straight grained and the barrel finish is dull but that doesn't bother me I wanted a shooter.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/shooting/firearms/centerfire-rifles/single-shot-centerfire-rifles%7C/pc/104792580/c/553829580/sc/105522480/i/105525180/pedersoli-1874-sharps-hunter-rifle-150-45-70/1780823.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fsing le-shot-centerfire-rifles%2F_%2FN-1114862%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_105525180

Bob

[marlinman93]

The Shiloh Sharps is indeed a Cadillac, but it's priced as one too. The Pedersoli Sharps have proven themselves to be very accurate arms, and especially if you choose good sights, and not factory Pedersoli sights. A set of MVA, Baldwin, or Kelly sights will allow a Pedersoli to reach it's utmost accuracy, and not deal with slop in the threads.
If money is a concern, I'd look at nice used guns, regardless of maker. Some real bargains can be found if you are patient, and not rushing your purchase. Like new cars; new guns lose value for the purchaser, but are a bargain for the 2nd guy to buy used.

[Don McDowell]

Have yet to see anybody win either a bpcr sillouette or bptr match with one of the imported rifles.
Do your pricing carefully, the cost difference between the imported rifles and the USA built guns is very slight, in fact there are some of the Italians that will cost you more than a USA built gun.
BPCR silhouette the furthest target is the rams at 500 meters. BPTR matches go to 1000. 40-65 is a popular silhouette cartridge, the 45-70 will do both venues.
Reguardless which rifle you end up choosing , the sights will make the difference. A good set of sights will set you back something over 600$ in addition to the cost of the rifle.

[EDG]

>>>the cost difference between the imported rifles and the USA built guns is very slight<<<

This is not really true if talking used rifles. The American made rifles are basically semi-customs and are manufactured in very limited quantity so they are never in good supply and never have a decent price break from MSRP. The Pedersolis are a production rifle and you can buy them used for much much less than a Shiloh. I have 2 of the more expensive Pedersolis a Billy Dixon in 45-70 and a Long Range Creedmore in 50-70. I paid about the same for both of them as you would pay for one stripped down Shiloh.

[Don McDowell]

Per Cabela's web the Pedersoli long range and down under are 1700 and 1750.
Shiloh. Roughrider and Hartford are 2059 and 2189. Not slot of difference for supporting AMERICAN craftsmanship, service after the sale of needed, and a proven winning track record.

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[country gent]

When the spring broke in my Pedersoli it was a few months getting the new one from pedersoli. WHen the Spring broke in my CSharps Hepburn I called C Sharps explained my problem and what I needed. It was in my mailbox 3 days later. PArts and service are ussually much easier with the American made rifles.

[EDG]

You apparently chose to ignore the fact that I clearly said "used rifles".
Go to gunbroker and look at "used rifles". No one pays those cherry picked prices for Pedersolis when you can easily get them for $750 to $1000 used. Heck some times you can get them on sale new for those prices. http://www.cabelas.com/product/shooting/firearms/centerfire-rifles/single-shot-centerfire-rifles%7C/pc/104792580/c/553829580/sc/105522480/i/105525180/pedersoli-1874-sharps-hunter-rifle-150-45-70/1780823.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fsing le-shot-centerfire-rifles%2F_%2FN-1114862%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_105525180
There is a Uberti Pedersoli in 45-70 in like new condition for $900 on GB.
Try this price on Cabelas
There is not much in the way of Shiloh listing on gunbroker for under $2800 so lots of luck there.

New prices for the Shilohs are easily 2X the real cost I paid for a Pedersoli with a fairly decent sights. Add sights to your rifles and there is NO comparison.
Your over priced Shilohs should NEVER need service. I have never been that impressed with Shiloh workmanship compared to the premium you pay for it. After all it is a hermaphrodite design half way between a muzzle loader and a breech loader. If you want something refined it is not a Sharps 74.

Next show me where I can find the Cabela's prices for Shiloh Sharps. I would like to see those so there is a direct comparison at the retail level. jajajajajajaja



Per Cabela's web the Pedersoli long range and down under are 1700 and 1750.
Shiloh. Roughrider and Hartford are 2059 and 2189. Not slot of difference for supporting AMERICAN craftsmanship, service after the sale of needed, and a proven winning track record.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

[Don McDowell]

Hmmm brand new rifle at 1800, buy it used for 900,, Brand new Shiloh cost new about 2300 sell it used for the same money... Let me think about this a minute on which is the better investment..

[country gent]

Like it or not all rifles need service at one time or another. For one thing or another. I have a Pedersoli, original Rem rolling block, CPA shilouette model and C Sharps rifles. I will buy another Pedersoli, I am very pleased with its performance and accuracy. I did have to upgrade sights on it as the factory ladders adjustments werent that good and it didnt have windage adjustments on it. Loosening the eyepiece for fine adjustments never repeated that good. My roller was a Navy arms rebuild to 45-70 with the heavy straight octagon barrel. Accurate and reliable, Its out being rebarreled into a 38-55 with a green mountain 1-12 twist tapered octagon barrel and new wood. The C Sharps are my pride and joy one is a high wall in 38-55 thats scary accurate with 365 grn bullets and is roughly 1 1/2 years old and has around 1000 rds thru it. Its a really nice rifle and wears a 28" MVA Scope, But has a mid range rear ladder and spirit level globe front. The other is A Hepburn in 45-90 with 34" barrel This rifle is a great shooter but is a bit much for shilouettes. With 550 grn bullets it very accurate and a very accuirate rifle. Obe thing you dont get with the Pedersolis that you do with the semi custom makers is the choices in finish, lebgth of pull, comb hieght, fancies if you want them, barrel length or contour, able to get a certain weight with in a range, and sights choices. C Sharps offers short range, mid range, long range ladder sights in standard and souule type. Front sights are blade, ring, globe, globe with spirit level and winfgage front with and with out levels. Alot of choices right there. Triggers are standard single set or double set depending on model. As I said when the Hepburns spring broke it was no charge shipping and handling included. When the pedersolis spring broke I paid for the spring along with shipping and handling. I did install both myself. So that wasnt an issue there. As far as best for the money thats the buyers decision. For me the CPA is the pick since it is a swap barrel set-up and can have other calibers fit to the same action.

[Thundermaker]

Oh dear. Seems I may have opened a metalic container of invertebrates.

[Chill Wills]

Oh dear. Seems I may have opened a metalic container of invertebrates.

You didn't do anything to cause it. It is always like this. It is how us humans get things sorted out.
Carry on.

[woodbutcher]

:smile: Yep.Just one big happy family;).Hehehehe.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[Don McDowell]

Oh dear. Seems I may have opened a metalic container of invertebrates.

Oh not really terrible bad.
Your best bet , if you haven't done so already, would be go to the Riverbend outfit in Dawsonville, and visit with the competitors and the match director about getting started. Handle the rifles and see what folks are using. Regular shooters are mostly happy to help a newcomer to get started.

This bpcr competion thing isn't a "cheap" game to play. When you factor in the amount of equipment and supplies beyond just the rifle you'll be needing, skimping abit of money on your rifle ,that you may or may not find feels as good in your hand as it looked in the catalog pictures, and equipping it with "adequate sights" just isn't a good way to get started. You're looking at casting quality bullets that are going to take alloy at about 14 per pound, it will take the large part of one can of powder for every 40 round match you shoot. And the list goes on and on..
Do your shopping wisely and put your money to it's fullest use and you'll have a much better experience.

[marlinman93]

Hmmm brand new rifle at 1800, buy it used for 900,, Brand new Shiloh cost new about 2300 sell it used for the same money... Let me think about this a minute on which is the better investment..

Well if buying new the Shiloh is without a doubt the better investment. But considering used guns, the Pedersoli is the better investment, as the new buyer takes the hit. Once they drop to half price, they generally stay there, or eventually go up. I bought a used Pedersoli about 10-11 years ago for $650 when they were $1300 new. Shot it for awhile and it was a great gun. I just couldn't get past the fact it wasn't an original Sharps. That problem would stick with me if it was a Shiloh too, so I sold it. I had no trouble getting a little profit over what I paid when I moved it along.
Want a true investment rifle, I'd buy a real Sharps from the 1800's. They seem to just go up more and more every year!