Gun shows...

[NSP64]

Anyone go to these? I used to fairly regularly, but with the fuel prices(nearest one is 40 mi) I probably won't anymore. The last couple I went to, I didn't buy anything but some primers and powder. Almost cheaper to pay hazmat fee. There wasn't any deals and everyone acted like the was sellin gold.

[hammerhead357]

NSP I haven't been to a gun show for about 2 years but the monthly show in San Antonio was that way last time I went. Very few people there setup that weren't dealers. Most wanted gunshop prices for everything and like you said it seemed like they thought they were selling gold. I go to find bargins but didn't find many. However I did find one man that had a S & W model 25-5 for 500.00 so I bought it and he wasn't a dealer.
Now I just bought 3m small rifle primers from Sportsmans Warehouse and I paid 26.99 per m. I went to one of the local shops later in the week and they had all primers priced the same at 24.99 per m....Wes

[10-x]

You are right,
Gun Shows "ain't what they used to be".
They're so many of them in just about every state, almost one every weekend.
Would seem the sellers would be willing to deal, most wont.
Mail order and the internet may be the way to go.
The exceptions are the Really Big Shows ,Tulsa and Louisville. There are alway "deals" to be had.:drinks:
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[smkummer]

I can usually find a bargin on almost something BUT a gun at the Big Louisville show. About the only deal one can find is a walk-in. New Colt Single Actions are $1079 online (plus shipping and FFL) but the cheapest I spotted a 3rd gen. gun at the show was $1290 for a 7 1/2 in. .357. I know some of the dealers were complaining that no one is buying in the past but it appears they have a good mark-up for table rent. I have bought probably 6 out of 8 guns through the net.

[Boerrancher]

The exceptions are the Really Big Shows ,Tulsa and Louisville. There are alway "deals" to be had.:drinks:
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I missed Tulsa this past spring, but was there a year before. I used to go 2x per year and now it is not even worth going to. The only thing I found was high prices. I can buy brass, and primers cheaper from Graf's than I could at Tulsa.

I am always looking for molds, and other casting supplies, as well as reloading dies, presses, and anything to do with reloading. Most used presses and dies that were in any shape at all were priced within a few $'s of new ones. The same was true for used molds. It also seemed that the new equipment prices were the same as gun shop prices as stated earlier.

My father has a friend from Tx that is a dealer, and we always get dealers passes from him. It gives us 3 days of the show and gives him two extra bodies to watch his table while he eats and uses the restroom and looks for steals and deals himself. I know this past show he didn't bother to show up, because he said he didn't make enough money at the last one to pay for his trip this time with the increase in fuel costs.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[MT Gianni]

Anyone go to these? I used to fairly regularly, but with the fuel prices(nearest one is 40 mi) I probably won't anymore. The last couple I went to, I didn't buy anything but some primers and powder. Almost cheaper to pay hazmat fee. There wasn't any deals and everyone acted like the was sellin gold.

40 miles! We drive further for groceries.
I agree that there hasn't been much to see at the ones I've been too, though with the small ones you might find a few molds. Gianni

[RP]

Gun show here were maybe twice a year if you were lucky now there is one every month moving a town over each month. The dealers just go to the one nearest to them to unload stuff that was not moving at the store that what it seems like. But if there was one or two shows a year in a giving area more would show up for it dealers and buyers alike. The reason I beleive there are so many show is the guys that are booking them make money 50.00 a booth they dont care if you sell anything or not but the more shows the more money they can make. There were 3 gunshows 1 week apart one was 60 miles from me the other in the same town iam in and the last was 20 miles from me tell me that makes sense.

[mtnman31]

I have all but given up on gunshows. I think the golden era of gunshows is long gone. Here in southern Kalifornia the shows cost 12 bucks to get into (multiply 12 times at least 20 thousand visitors and get an idea how much the promoters are making just off the crowd and not even factoring in the dealers). Add 5-8 bucks for parking at Del Mar and you have to find quite a few good deals to offset the cost of just showing up. Only problem is that there aren't any good deals. Occassionally I'll find something that is a fair price. Usually there just aren't many deals to be had and people seem to have forgotten how to barter. Not only are the shows pricey, they have all the people selling their junk that isn't even gun related i.e. beanie babies, jewlery, etc. I used to get all my reloading components at the shows but anymore, the dealers don't seem to carry as much as they used to so the ones that do have supplies have little competition and their prices aren't much of a bargain. I get a kick out of the SoCal shows because so much is banned here, yet the show is predominately black gun parts and accessories. I mean how many different tactical rails can one guy have. I'm in the military and can appreciate a well designed tactical accessory but, I need a little variety in my shopping experience. Every other table has 68 different AR-15 upper receiver configurations. Good luck finding a decent milsurp oldie. I miss the old days and heck, I'm not even that old. Honestly, I think Sothern Kalifornia gunshows died the day the city of Pomona ousted the gunshow that they used to host. Okay, I'll now step down from my soapbox...

Having said all that - I still go to the shows once or twice a year, just to reinforce my resolve that they suck and I shouldn't go to them:-?

[PatMarlin]

I remember the Pamona show as a kid back in the 60's. That was awesome.

[JIMinPHX]

Phoenix is still pretty good for gun shows. I see about 8 or 10 advertised each year. I try to make it to about half of them. Some guys there want a zillion dollars for average stuff, but other guys have good values available. You need to do a little digging around to find the good deals. Selection here seems to be good at the Crossroads or Ter-mark shows. The others are usually pretty small. The December Crossroads show is usually the best. The shows here are good for finding odd ball calibers of ammo too.

[BruceB]

It's sorrowing to me that, as expressed in many ways by folks whom I respect, gun shows aren't what they used to be.

I have only attended a few shows, strictly in the Reno area. We are blessed with the BIG RENO SHOW, a large event organized three times per year. From descriptions, the BRS tops most of the current shows by quite a bit. Not much in the way of native artifacts, etc., and MANY guns and accessories. Plenty of gunparts, reasonable amounts of casting stuff, a bit of clothing (I HAD to buy a black T-shirt with"INFIDEL" printed in 3-inch-high white letters in English AND Arabic)...love that shirt. Also bought a well-made black-leather CCW vest with stiff panels in the pockets to prevent printing by the pistola. Found some VERY low-cost soft rifle cases in all lengths, as well, in many sizes and sub-$20 prices. Well-padded, and wearing like iron for me so far.

In more-expensive categories, it's wonderful to discuss useful questions with the people who actually produce what we use. I had a fascinating discussion with Mrs Axtell, who KNEW how far a .45-70 bullet of certain weight and velocity would reach with their "mid-range" staff length. She ended up jokingly saying I was far too ambitious and really NEEDED the long sight staff...which I bought, for about $400....besides, it really looks "Quigley". Just don't ask me to shoot any 1000-yard buckets, OK?


The real deal for Reno's Big Show is to stay over at least one night in the hotel hosting the event. There's a bit of a discount on the room rate for gunshow attendees if you ask for it, and it gives one a piede-a-terre to go lie down, have a nap or a beer (or both) and a place to leave your goodies when they get heavy. Of course, there's a bar (TWO bars, in fact) thoughtfully provided for attendees right between the two ballrooms containing the Show. This is VERY much appreciated in cases of terminal thirst.

Again, I must refer to how much we enjoy the laid-back Nevada lifestyle.

I'm told that my statuesque daughter was walking through the casino with a slung #4 Mk1 with the knife-blade bayonet fixed; probably she and rifle were easily 7.5 feet high.They passed a table-full of card-players, ALL of whom took a big eyeful. One of them turned back to the table and says, "Three Kings". One of the others brings him back soddenly to earth by saying, "Dude.....we're playing Blackjack".

I'm very content with our Reno shows to date.

[Bass Ackward]

I guess that it depends on where you are. For what it costs, the tables keep getting sold. So somebody is making something. But good deals are slim.

Around here, you see the same inventory troded out every time and the prices listed on the guns are retail. Unless it is outta production, then it's about twice what you can get it for on the net. Can't even buy reloading supplies as these are illegal in the buildings.

The only real deals are from the guys bringing in stuff to try and peddle. That's where the action is here if you get lucky. Then try and find one that isn't miffed that will handle the paperwork. They look at the transaction as you just took "their" good deal.

[jlchucker]

I used to attend a couple of them here in Vermont, but have pretty much given up on it. The shows are so well-attended that the crowds are too big for the buildings in which they hold them, sometimes making "windowshopping" a bit tough. Another thing I have noticed is that in recent years, the displays are primarily set up by shop owners, both large and small. They bring the stuff they can't normally sell, mark it up, and try to peddle it at shows. Then there are the dreamers who figure they can get a fortune at a show for whatever junk they bring. The golden era of the gun show seems to be fading, at least to me.

[DLCTEX]

Same here. The dealers price things higher than their store prices. DALE

[Texasflyboy]

... everyone acted like the was sellin gold.

It's a subject I've spoken about for years with my local shooting group. I, for one, was one of the first people in my group to publicly pronounce that the advent of the Internet would change forums like gun shows forever, and just might cause their demise. I was ridiculed by the "old timers" in my group. "That there Internet thingy is a flash in the pan, folks will never stand for buying and selling sight unseen, you young whipper snappers will get taken for your cash and be left holding your *****". I disagreed and forged on. I was right or so it seems today.

Pre Internet, a gun show was probably the most efficient method to gather buyers and sellers under one roof. It wasn't perfect, not all buyers, and not all sellers could be exposed to the items up for sale, which usually resulted in a less than premium price for the seller. The Internet changed all that. Gone was the time restriction. You can place an item for sale indefinitely, and almost instantly reach your target audience. Or simply wait until someone, somewhere, decided to meet your price. The cost of waiting? In those days, about $13.00 a month for dial up access. It wasn't a hard choice between Internet and gunshows.

Take this forum for instance, I couldn't fathom the existence of an exclusive gathering of like minded folks, all in one place, all accessible 24/7. Back in 1990, when I first started searching on the pre-Internet (Dial Up BBS boards), I realized in very short time that the availability of a medium like BBS's or the Internet would forever change gun shows. And it did. In short order, many "kitchen table" sellers stopped attending gun shows and started peddling their wares over the Internet. As did I. I saw no reason to buy a $40 table, and sit for over 16 hours waiting for the perfect sale to walk by. Instead, I quickly developed a website, started advertising, and was able to make contact with buyers and sellers of the exact wares I was interested in. The first BBS I opened had over 100 members in the first 30 days, and over 500 after 6 months. All accessible 24/7.

I just wish I had been more insistent in indulging in my two most favorite obsessions, pre Model Smith & Wesson's, and Hensley & Gibbs Bullet moulds. In those heady early years, I was strapped for cash, and thought I had all the time in the world to gather those things I wanted for my collection, I had no idea, and was quite shocked, at the rapid pace just those two categories rose in value as collectors concentrated in these areas.

I still remember an ad I discovered back in 1992 on a small local Buy/Sell/Trade forum (It was in East Texas) that went something like:

"Need to sell guns, lots of old six guns, some smiths, some rugers, some colts. Plus odds and ends from my shed. Come by before noon on Sunday else I'll be playing cards at the VFW"

The ad isn't verbatim, but I called the number and this spry Southern gentleman answered the phone. His grandson had taken the ad out for him, and he was very cordial, and very direct...."You buy one, you buy them all, I want to do this once and for all." So I did. That one purchase quadrupled my collection. His reason for selling? He went to the local gun show one Sunday with just two of the Smiths he had to sell and was offered $50 each. He knew better.

I paid him fair market value (1992 time frame) for his entire collection. We spent all day Sunday drinking iced lemonade and dickering over price. I can't say I've ever spent a happier Sunday afternoon before or since. He was happy, I was happy, and despite my objections, he dumped all his reloading gear on me as well. My first 10 cavity mould came from that purchase.

In one fell swoop, I had moulds, sizers, and just about everything needed for a casting setup. Plus, his "journal" of all the loads he'd worked up over 30 years of playing with his collection. Sometimes when I travel, that journal comes with me and I read it on the plane, marveling at his precise penmanship and detailed note taking. He was a rare breed that one.

Such was life in the early days of the Internet and it proved to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Internet would change gun shows forever.

And to drive the point home, at the next gun show I showed up with just a few of the new additions to my Smith & Wesson collection, and on the spot, one of my best friends, and a long time member of the HGCA, decided that I was right, and that was the last gun show he setup at. He was online within a week and spending his weekends at the range with me in lieu of sitting behind a table.

There is both good and bad in this story. Gun shows allowed us an opportunity to meet face to face and make new friends. But the Internet has allowed us to easily and more efficiently find what what we're looking for. Our hobby is changing. Change is constant.

I can't recall the last gun show I attended where I can honestly say I enjoyed myself. I would rather spend evenings cruising the boards here, contributing to the general knowledge and reading about each others trials and tribulations with loads, moulds, and pots and spending my weekends at the range with friends.

In fact, the more I think about it, the more I am convinced that forums like this one are our modern gun shows. The only thing missing is the jerky guy and the non gun, non reloading paraphernalia that I always didn't want to see, but was forced to anyway.

Progress I think...:-D

[PatMarlin]

You are and were 100% correct Texas.

The internet has changed much of our lives forever. Most for the good I think, some for the bad. Gunshop owners in the nearest big city to us won't waste their time.

I have purchased many firearms over the net in the past 8 years, and every single one of them met or far exceeded my expectations. Unseen accept for photo's.

It deosn't take much to sniff out a dishonest seller. I've sent thousands of dollars out prepaid for many items. The honor system is alive and well.

[hotwheelz]

The local shows around here have grown very thin on deals seems like guys pay for a table so they can go in early buy up alot of the deals and put them back on there own for way more $$$, that being said I did make a deal a couple weeks ago at the Helena gun show while visiting a friend. Ill keep going see alot of old friends and its worht it to me. You still find a deal or 2 a year.

[theperfessor]

The only good deal I've gotten at a gun show in the last five years was a Smith 296 for $335 a couple years ago. The guy had three of them, two (unshot) were right at $500 and the one I bought had one cylinder full shot through it. Over that same time frame I've bought four or five guns through the 'Net and had local dealer handle paperwork for $25 each. Haven't gotten burned yet.

Local shows are mostly full of overpriced junk and are too crowded for comfort. I walk with a cane. Tables too close together (sponsor greed?), can't get through them comfortably, and way too many of my shooting brothers need to lose some weight! Nothing like being trapped between two mouthy know-it-alls that would field dress at 350 lbs plus to make the experience un-enjoyable.

The only reason I go anymore is to get out of house on weekend so wife can clean floors.

[yondering]

I've allowed my membership to expire for the Washington Arms Collectors, the organization that runs a lot of our local gun shows. I've had the same experiences as the rest of you guys. Last one I went to, I was looking for a cheap Ruger 10/22, and out of 6 or 8 I saw, not one was selling for less than new price! They are $199 at the local Wal Mart, but these gun show 10/22's were $250 or more, and some were pretty beat up. A friend of mine pointed out that's why they are called Washington Arms "Collectors", not Washington Arms "Sellers".

[9.3X62AL]

I'll add on to Bruce B's observations about the Reno Gun Shows. These are the only shows I've attended for the past several years, because they are the only ones worth attending that I've found over the past decade. I'll admit it isn't just the show--I see Curmudgeon, Bruce, Ammohead, Urny, and a number of the other Usual Suspects very time I attend. I also bump into a cousin or 2 from the Bay Area, and nearly a dozen of old retired cops from my agency that vaulted The Wall and moved back to the United States.

But the show isn't bad on its own hook. Primers are well-priced, and there are a number of decently-priced firearms available if you give the examples a good look. Yes, there are MANY guns whose prices indicate that they are for "show" and not for sale. I'm sure that such sellers would prefer a dumber class of customer than I likely represent, and such buyers must exist--otherwise, I figure that species of seller would go the way of the condor. I could draw further comparisons between gun show promoters and Cal-DFG........but this metaphor is already severely strained.

[HollandNut]

No deals around here anymore either .. Like everyone else has said , seems to be a dumping ground for oddball stuff , or it's so over priced it's ridiculous ..

The last good deal I got was abt five years ago on a rifle I had to have .. At the same show I saw a couple M88 and M100's I would have loved to have gotten hold of , but I had already busted my budget .. They were priced right too ...

[Bent Ramrod]

I go to every one I can get to. Except for Pomona, which was a statistical universe (100% chance of finding something you "need") I've never gone to a gun show to find a given particular item. Nearest is that I have a list of stuff I could use, and of course, if anything else turns up, so much the better. For me, it's more a kind of petting-zoo/museum trip with the ever-present possibility of a souvenir. I seldom buy anything from dealers; if I do, I'd rather support local ones. I once drove five hours each way and came back with a box mostly filled with .25-20 Single Shot shells. I was delighted. Could have gone to the local dealer, but he would have needed a time machine to get the shells back then.

So I keep going because you just never can tell... It was better when the arms collector organizations ran the shows; then it was four shows per year and all the stuff was collector stuff and neat junk. Now the same level of good stuff is diluted with the swap-meet stuff and spread over a couple dozen shows and the point is less about exhibiting, selling, buying, trading and talking guns and more about selling tables. That's where the beanie babies, jewelry and other stuff comes from. However, it isn't completely negative even there; I've noticed that more women seem to be wandering around the shows and a lot of them are looking at the guns as well as the other stuff. Good deal--we need all the allies we can get.

Just as long as they don't bird-dog something I want!:mrgreen:

[mtgrs737]

I have exhibited at gun shows for 13 years and I can tell you that too many shows in one area is the "Kiss of Death". Why? Because the dealers if they want full coverage must go to every show every weekend and pay the promoter each time, then there is the hauling, setting up and much of the time Hotel and meals to be paid for. The patons can show up when they feel like it and buy if they feel like it, and if they don't feel like it there is always next weekend. So, the fewer the number of shows the better for both parties, I think twice a year would be a good number in an area. If you want to attend more, you can travel outside your area to another area for a show. Now it sounds like some of you have run across a few dealers with what I call "Sucker items", these are items so outragously priced most people just point and laugh. However every once in a while they sell it! If you don't want gunshows just don't go to them, I only go to the larger ones in my Wichita Kansas area and hope the little shows fade away as they are just smaller versions of the larger ones. Do dealers and other non dealers buy and sell from each other before the show starts, you bet they do! I have seen it many times, you need to remember that these guys are friends too, almost like an extended family. Anyone thinking of swiping something from a exhibitors table should be warned that there are more eyes watching than those behind that particular table. There are always more than one point of view, and yes times and costs are changing, I used to go to the Tulsa show to shop but I like you find little but high prices there now. Last time I checked tables at the Big Tulsa show were $100 each, ouch!

[TexasJeff]

Anyone go to these? I used to fairly regularly, but with the fuel prices(nearest one is 40 mi) I probably won't anymore. The last couple I went to, I didn't buy anything but some primers and powder. Almost cheaper to pay hazmat fee. There wasn't any deals and everyone acted like the was sellin gold.

Went to my first gun show in better than ten years a few months ago--at Dallas Market Hall.

Remembered why I said to hell with gun shows.

If I want to be insulted at the same time I'm being ripped off, I can do that at Ebay (which I've said to hell with also).

Jeff

[NSP64]

I've bought 3 guns in the last 6 months and all have been from the local dealer. We can average 1 show every other month in the greater St. Louis area and at all,I found the guns I bought at the dealer was a better deal.