Anyone having luck with cast in S&W Shield?

[Don Purcell]

Good bye.

[LabGuy]

I can't help much, my Shield is a 40 S&W. I have been using a 185ish grain MiHec with Blue Dot.

[dubber123]

If you have mixed brass, I'd look there first. 9mm brass is all over the map for thickness, length, hardness, pretty much every variable there is. I have had my best 9mm luck using matched brass, and I look for the thinnest there is, to allow a fatter boolit without swaging it down during seating;

No help with the load, my Shield is a .40 :)

[bullpen7979]

130 grain Mi HEC hollow point for 9 millimeter. Powder coated. Driven by various propellants. I like be 86 power pistol has way too much flash for me. I can say you just punched a 45 caliber hole in my ego. I'd be satisfied with 2 inch group at 10 yards off hand

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

[bullpen7979]

I will be following This Thread to get better results with cast out of my shield myself

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[Jayhawkhuntclub]

The 9mm in general is a difficult cartridge to get to perform accurately, in my experience. And that goes for rifles, 1911s and plastic guns. As for the Shield, mine shoots between 2 and 3" groups at 20 yards from a rest. Occasionally I'll get a sub 2" or over 3", but not often. Like you said, it's not a "target pistol." Just keep experimenting. Good luck!

[ioon44]

Like you I have reloaded for decades and the 9 mm is the worst to get right, some of my friends shoot cast out of there S&W Shield's.

Some of the issues they found were, bores measured .357" to .358" so they has to run .359" bullets and some of the bores were very rough and took a lot of lapping. They shoot mainly 130 gr cast with Hi-Tek coating and currently using CFE pistol powder.

You need to check you loaded ammo to make sure your dies are not swagging the bullets down below bore da.

[Tackleberry41]

I had luck w cast in my shield, but needs to be throated. My ancient browning HP copy swallows the same loads with ease.

It was an odd thing, I got more velocity w a cast 147gr out of the shield than I did with the longer barreled high power.

[8mmFan]

I only cast for practice rounds in my Shield. For these I go for minute of center mass, but I get better than that. I am using the Lee six cavity tumble lube 124 grain round nose mold and Lee Liquid Alox, in mixed, unsorted cases, on a Lee Loadmaster with Lee Carbide dies. I do run them through the Lee Factory Crimp die on the last stage of the press. I also run them through the resizer first. It's a really mixed batch of lead; I just melt whatever's next in line.

Head shots on a silhouette target at 25 yards are no problem, nor is it a problem to run 7+1 through the pistol as fast as I can pull the trigger at a target 5 yards away.

I haven't noticed any leading issues. But at the end of shooting with the shield I do run a couple of jacketed bullets down the pipe in hopes of scraping out any lead.

For powder I'm using an out of production Vithavouri powder, N3SH. About 4.7 grains. I have a ton that I bought at closeout prices a couple years back at Recob's.

8mmFan

[Jal5]

Lee 358125 RF Works fine in mine. Tumble lubed too in BLK. Sized 358.

[Javater]

If u guys slugged out .358 from shield, it would be same as PT111 G2. From A lot of research i have found the following.
1. 9mm dies will swag down your bullets down. If u are using Lee die set buy a PM EXPAN PLG 38 S&W not 38SP. that will help against swagging the bullet down to .355 from .358
2. you can use Range scrap and powder coat with lower load and get good results. at .356-.358 soft lead will expand with lower load. I was recommended lead hardness of 11 to 14.

all these suggestions are from members of this forum and not mine. Soon i will be making boolits for PT111 G2 and Shield since they are same slugged to .358

[Jal5]

That 38 S&W expander sure helps preventing the boolits getting swaged

[edctexas]

I have an M&P shield in 9mm and don't have any trouble reloading for it. I espc powder coat and size at 0.359. You need to be careful with the boolit having any build up of PC on the nose. I had a batch of 50 which would not go into battery. They shot fine in my H&K P30. I now put a hat on the nose during espc to prevent the build up. The other tip previously given is to be careful that the case is opened enough so it does not swage down the boolit dia in seating. That goes for nearly all of my 9mm pistols. The WWII lugers are different with 0.355 bores.

Ed C

[MT Gianni]

Not a shield shooter but I shrunk groups in my nines by religiously sorting brass by mfg and weight. + - 3 gr variance is my max 2 gr is better. You may need to vary loads per case brand but a chrono can tell you when you are at the same velocity as your other brands, stop there. Get a really good lube, there are plenty out there. Make sure that you are not reducing bullet diameter when you crimp. Do not try to substitute jacketed speeds for accuracy loads. You can run cast at J word speeds if everything is right but IME, it will not be as accurate on paper. Sometimes that's OK. Alloy makes a difference as does bullet diameter. You may need a larger expander button than comes on a factory die.
If casting for a 38 is a College 101 class, the nine is a 403 class.

[sandman228]

my shield likes a 125 gr round nose bullet from the lee mold powder coated sized at .356 and loaded over 4.4 gr of unique shooting offhand at 10 yards . I own 4 different 9mm pistols an m&p 9 full size ,an m&p 9 compact , an m&p 9 shield ,and a springfield xd9 sub compact and unfortunately all the s&w's are picky and each like there own bullet style /load. the springfield isn't picky though it likes pretty much anything I run through it

[ironhead7544]

I like the 160 gr RN made for the 38 Super and Unique powder. It seems the longer bullet takes the rifling better.

This has worked well in numerous pistols, carbines and SMGs.

[Javater]

What is the diameter of the 38 S&W expander plug? I'll just order what I need from N.O.E. as the Lee site only listed 38 S&W Special.
itis
http://leeprecision.com/pm-expan-plg-38-s-w.html

not same as 38 Special.

It is 38 Short and Large Colt pistol. My typo 38 S&L

[DougGuy]

Also bullets are sized .357 - .358.

Can you push the boolits into the cylinder throats from the front with finger pressure? If they won't go then the throats are sizing down the boolits as they are fired, because they will exit the front of the cylinder at throat diameter. If you have uneven throats, the tighter ones will shoot to a different point of impact than a loose throat because pressure is higher for the tighter ones.


Shooting five shot groups at 15-20 yards generally yields 3-4 shots in around two inches with 1 or 2 shots way out maybe 4 to 5 inches.

What you are describing is typical behavior for a cylinder with uneven throats.

[exile]

Would seating and crimping in two separate steps eliminate any of these issues? I ask because I am having some of these issues myself. Thanks.

exile

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

OK, so this is the second thread in which I've read that sorting headstamps for 9mm makes a big difference.

Do you need to go through load development for each brand? Or do you just sort them after loading?

[Oily]

Don , Just saw this thread and wanted to comment on your results at 25 yds. My wifes Shield would not hold that accuracy at 25 yds with jacketed bullets no matter what the brand or reload of my own. Given I haven't loaded much 9mm and I know it is particular, all loads factory and home grown all had fliers that were not attributed to shooter error. She is a "little" impatient and really busy so I traded it for a XDS compact and all the issues went away and she has a smile on her face when she shoots to relieve her tension. Thank the Lord. I am not admitting that I cause the tension that she has to release or that my passion for the shooting sports can be construed as neglect or negligence in any form. Furthermore my "hobby" has negated many arguments and disagreements that could have escalated because i went to my reloading room and let things cool down. Patent Pending

[Lloyd Smale]

don't own a 9mm shield but do have a 40 and its no tack driver with any ammo. I seems to shoot cast as well as jacketed though. I have loaded 10s of thousands of 9s though for other gun. Most accurate was an sti Trojan that would shoot one inch or less 25 yard groups. Once I found a load it like it didn't matter much if I sorted brass or used about anything and I never trim handgun brass. Biggest variables ive found with the 9s and for that matter the 40s and 45s too is bullet size and alloy. All of them like the largest bullet that will chamber reliably and ALL of them like harder alloys. Group sizes with the same loads comparing something around 10bhn to #2 or water dropped ww is about double. Ive found some rare exceptions but for the most part even if a gun will shoot soft without leading harder is about always more accurate and more consistant. Now maybe trimming or separating cases might add a tiny bit of accuracy if your looking for a one inch 50 yard group for comp shooting but its not enough for me to go through the bother.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Can someone explain that .38 SW expander plug to me?

Does it go in the powder-through expander die? It doesn't look tapered at all.
Why is it helpful?

[sigep1764]

Can someone explain that .38 SW expander plug to me?

Does it go in the powder-through expander die? It doesn't look tapered at all.
Why is it helpful?

The point of the 38 SW expander plug is to open your brass to 357 or 358 during the belling process. This allows you to seat a larger than diameter bore lead boolit in the brass case without the case swaging the boolit to a smaller diameter. If you look up Lyman M Die, it will be similar in concept.
Example:
Somebody uses a typical 9mm plug to bell the brass and seats a .358 sized boolit. Next step, remove the bell. Now, we have to double check that the boolit wasn't mashed to a smaller than .358 size when it was squeezed into the case. So we pull the boolit and measure. Most often times the boolit is .356 or .355 and in most 9mm's, that is too small. It is because the 9mm expanding plugs were designed for hard 9mm jacketed boolits and only open the brass to .353 or .354 at best.

[Boolseye]

Sir,
You are on target with your thinking.
Just getting the cases expanded more, be it with a .38 S&W plug, a NOE expander or a Lyman M die, is an important first step. Bypassing the carbide ring on your Lee fcd is also vital.
Since I rarely use my Lee expanders, I take the innards out of the fcd and put them in the expander die body. I sometimes add a small nut if there’s too much gap between the crimper and the adjuster. In rare circumstances I use the fcd as-is, and that carbide ring can always bring an oversized round back to spec if need be.

Cast is fine in the 9, thousands of rounds without a keyhole in years.
-BE

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Next step, remove the bell. Now, we have to double check that the boolit wasn't mashed to a smaller than .358 size when it was squeezed into the case.

This is where I'm getting confused. It doesn't appear that the expander is the problem. It seems more like it is a post-seating sizer that is cause the grief. So why would a .38 S&W expander help?

[crandall crank]

Been loading 9mm for quite a while, both cast and J'd. No problem in a Shield, even less in a BHP.

[whisler]

The 38 S & W expander is longer in the expansion area so it expands the 9 mm case deeper. 9 mm cases are tapered so they are smaller the deeper you go. Expanding the case deeper keep the tapered case from swaging the base of the boolit and making it too small in diameter.
Hope this helps

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Ohhh. Because the 9mm case is so short, the wall thickness begins to increase at the depth that is common for bullet seating? Thus, if this area isn't opened up it can swage the boolit down.

[sigep1764]

Ohhh. Because the 9mm case is so short, the wall thickness begins to increase at the depth that is common for bullet seating? Thus, if this area isn't opened up it can swage the boolit down.
This is correct, sir. If you want to find out if your crimp die is swaging the boolit down, seat a boolit and don't crimp it. Now pull the boolit and measure its base. If its the same size as when you started, reseat the boolit and crimp(just set the crimp die to remove the bell). Now pull it and measure the boolit base. Wherever the boolit is being squeezed to a smaller size, you will be able to find it.

[marek313]

If u guys slugged out .358 from shield, it would be same as PT111 G2. From A lot of research i have found the following.
1. 9mm dies will swag down your bullets down. If u are using Lee die set buy a PM EXPAN PLG 38 S&W not 38SP. that will help against swagging the bullet down to .355 from .358
2. you can use Range scrap and powder coat with lower load and get good results. at .356-.358 soft lead will expand with lower load. I was recommended lead hardness of 11 to 14.

all these suggestions are from members of this forum and not mine. Soon i will be making boolits for PT111 G2 and Shield since they are same slugged to .358

My PT111 G2 will not shoot anything bigger then 0.356. I make .3575 for my Sig P320 but they dont work in my PT111 G2. Also nothing but RN boolits feed in my G2 because anything else causes FTFs. Not a big fan of that PT111 G2 but it makes a good basement gun just in case :Fire: