interesting occurence

[Oklahoma Rebel]

I loaded up my first batch of boolits made from 20:1 a few days ago, it is a 1895 45-70, with noe 425gr RNFP and 32.2gr of imr 4198. well I guess the 20:1 must have expanded a little more than the other alloys, because I was having trouble closing mmy lever the last little "click". Now I know I trimmed all the cases right before that load so that was good, and crimped them in the crimp groove with a deep crimp .upon examining the cartridges, the boolits had perfect rifling imprints on them. that's what makes me think the alloy expanded more, or shrunk less, whichever. anyways I have a bunch of lever evolution cases (hornady) that I use, so I shortened the depth guide part of my lee basic trimmer, the kind that looks like a de-priming punch that threads into a trimming blade. I shortened it so all cases will be the same length, which I think the hornadys are 2.050 instead of the normal 2.10. just wondered if anyone had any other theories as to what happened, as I said they were all ttrimmed but can having too "strong" of a crimp curl the case in and push the boolit forward? Thanks a lot, Travis

[buckshotshoey]

What is the advertised casting diameter of the mould? What is the diameter of the cast boolit? What alloy does NOE recommend?

[Dan Cash]

Your bullets are too big on the nose. Check your mould for spatter that is holding the blocks apart. A NOE mould should cast to specification. By trimming your cases too short, you will likely have leading from the bullet expanding into the space between the case neck and end of chamber then shearing lead as it passes into the rifling.

[buckshotshoey]

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/N.O.E._Bullet_Moulds_460-425-RF_(GC).Jpg

Is this the one you have? Its the only 425 I could find on the NOE site in the .458-.460 category.

[Blackwater]

You may have just seated those bullets out too far. That last little groove is the crimp groove. Did you crimp in that one, or the one below it?

[44man]

Agree, 20 to 1 will not expand. Seating pressure might expand it.
Check for a bulge below the crimp from too much crimp.

[popper]

The Hornady cases may work - the nose is too big and jams the lands. I use a bored out fender washer to 'size' the nose so my boolit fits in the 30/30. 20:1 doesn't grow. Roll crimp should just push the case mouth into the groove. Seating pressure might expand it. Yes, 20:1 is fairly soft so mike one after seating, compare to as cast.

[mdi]

I think I'd shorten the OAL (something I check before assembling any amount of ammo). Sounds like just too long for that particular bullet. How are you seating them? What kind of crimp? Need a bit more info, pics?...

[runfiverun]

I like engraving on the nose of my boolits..

[Oklahoma Rebel]

my mold is not dirty, it is closing, advertised width is 460 I sized to 459, cases were star, r-p maybe? and 1 other I don't remember, I trimmed them all the same and roll crimped them heavy. that's it. and yes I know the small slanted groove is the crimp groove. yes that's the noe boolit but I have a PB, and I have been using it for at least 6 months, might just be time for new brass. I doubt shortening them by such a small amount will hurt it but I will watch the chamber for buildup, I already had that in mind when I made the decision. plus new length guage from lee + shell holder is 5.98 so I did shorten mine to hornady spec. is chambering good now.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

run five, would have been perfect on a single shot! but not with having to squeeze the lever closed the last few mils, that's after trying to close once, backing up and doing it again

[runfiverun]

you got too much diameter then.
shortening the case will be fine.
your gonna use them again with the same boolit any way.
and you definitely don't want to be fighting with them if your gonna be using them to hunt with.
I would probably have to do the same thing for my 45-70 lever gun.

[rond]

I have to trim a little shorter for my Marlin .30-30s, there is not much room for cast boolits.

[WHITETAIL]

You are on the right track with shorting a hair.
I have found out that ( for Me ) it works.
Keep us up on your progress.:holysheep

[Tatume]

The problem with bullets jamming into the rifling of 45-70 rifles is caused by the design of the chamber. Take a look at the SAAMI chamber drawing for the 45-70:

http://saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/Rifle/45-70%20Government.pdf

Then for contrast look at the chamber drawing for the 444 Marlin:

http://saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/Rifle/444%20Marlin.pdf

The Marlin cartridge has a throat, or leade, of 0.0514".

For an even more dramatic comparison, consider the 458 Winchester Magnum:

http://saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/Rifle/458%20Winchester%20Magnum.pdf

There is no SAAMI chamber drawing for the 45-90, but unlike the 45-70, the 45-90 does have a leade. It is sometimes advantageous to hybridize the 45-70 chamber with a 45-90 chamber reamer. Five years ago I wrote to Dave Manson at Manson Reamers and asked about this topic. Here is what he had to say then:

"Thanks for your inquiry. As you described, the throat in your 45-70 can be extended with a separate Throating Reamer or you can simply convert the rifle to 45-90. A separate Throater is priced @ $40.00 (solid pilot) or $70.00 (removable pilot), plus shipping. These tools are normally driven with a 12” T-Handle--@ $16.00—which allows you to extend the throat without removing the barrel from the receiver. Depending on its profile, you may have to remove the buttstock in order to make complete turns with the Throater."

Take care, Tom

[Oklahoma Rebel]

yup, shortened the cases to exactly ( as close as I can) the hornady leverevolution cases, I have been using some of thos for at least * months with no problems with buildup or anything else so I think I am good. has anyone done one of these throat jobs? I was wondering were the throat was when looking at the indentations of the rifling, so it has no throat at all? not a trace?

[John Boy]

You may have just seated those bullets out too far.
Bingo! With hard chambering - rifle engraving on the bullet nose - with a fixed straight side bullet reload ... and a non tapered throat to effect 'breech seating' ... pressure seating the round will happen
Back the COL down so the leading land engraving just marks nose past the metplat