Gas checks in 357 Magnum boolits

[jamesp81]

At what velocity does it become necessary to gas check a 158gr 357 magnum boolit? Or can gas checking be avoided altogether in this caliber?

[fecmech]

I think you can very easily do without checks. I have loaded both .357 and .44 mag in the 1200-1400fps range in handguns with accuracy in the 2-3" range @50 yds and no leading. If you use appropriate powders(H110/296,2400 etc) with well cast properly sized bullets and a good lube you can shoot a lifetime without GC's, I have. That said, if supreme accuracy at extended ranges with high velocities are your goal, GC bullets will make that easier to achieve. I would suggest starting with proven plain base bullets and go from there. You can easily load them to a pretty high accuracy standard.

[DHDeal]

Here's a FWIW from another relatively new caster for revolvers (casted for years but for BPTCR). With that out of the way, as of now I have 1 mold for 357 (Accurate Molds 4 gang with 2 different style bullets) and I load them to a max of 1200 fps. I don't need them to go 1500 fps, so I stay at or near 1200. I've shot both bullets conventionally sized/lubed to .358" and powder coated and sized to .358". My Blackhawk shoots both bullets both ways very very well.

I have considered a GC mold that matches the mold I already have (Accurate 36-165E and M), but I cannot think it would shoot any better as I don't plan to go faster.

All the bullets I've shot are cast from 20/1, so they are not hard. After 50 rounds, I can push some damp patches down the bore and I'm good to go. No leading while shooting lubed/sized bullets.

[John Boy]

At what velocity does it become necessary to gas check a 158gr 357 magnum boolit? At 1600 fps or higher. Have you shot your reloads over a chronograph to determine the fps - whether or not a GC is needed? Do you own or have access to a chrono?

[mdi]

Agree with fecmech's post. I have loads for my .357 Mag. of around 1,200 fps for a 160 gr. plain based, air cooled LSWC that leaves no leading. I believe fit is the key to most lead bullet shooting...

[robg]

In a rifle gas checks seem to be needed after about 1200 fps but boolits fit is more important. Used plain base in my 686 and never had a problem except with soft swaged boolits ,my load was 158gr swc over 11.5 gr 2400.accurate To 50 yards

[dragon813gt]

I run 170 grain plain base bullets w/ full house H110 loads out of an 1894C. They should be in the neighborhood of 1500fps. I need to chrono them. I haven't found a need for a gas check in any of my 357s.

[runfiverun]

your probably doing better than that.
I can get 1600 in my 92 with 2400.
no gas check.

[Tackleberry41]

Gonna depend on the bullet. I bought a NOE 158gr HP mold. Without a gas check not really enough bearing surface to stabilize them.

[dragon813gt]

your probably doing better than that.
I can get 1600 in my 92 with 2400.
no gas check.

Better to be a bit conservative until I actually know. All the gear is in a bag and ready to go to the range. I may be able to get there tomorrow. I have some 35 Remington development loads I need to test. But I know I won't have enough to test all fifty. May just go chrono a bunch a 357 loads I have worked up.

[Scharfschuetze]

I've never used a gas check on a 357 boolit in either a revolver or a rifle. I do use a fairly hard alloy compared to my 38 Special loads though. In my Marlin 24" barrel rifle, I get up to 1740 fps (chronographed) without leading with a 180 grain plain base conventionally lubed and .358" sized boolit over Lil'Gun powder. The same load out of 6" revolvers is right at 1,250 fps. No leading at all in several years of use with this load.

Whoops. I did use a gas check once on the RCBS 200 grain 358 calibre rifle boolit in the 357 while using 38 Special cases due to OAL issues, but that was only because the boolits had been lubed and sized for a 358 Winchester rifle.

[warf73]

At what velocity does it become necessary to gas check a 158gr 357 magnum boolit? Or can gas checking be avoided altogether in this caliber?

Depends if you sized the boolit to the cylinder throats and the throats are larger than the groove diameter. I've ran pure WW lead at magnum FPS in a 357 and 44 magnum handguns with no leading. I've also ran pure WW's at over 2k fps in a 445SM in a handy rifle with no leading. In all cases the boolit fit the bore, and that is key with all cast boolits FIT.
You should have no issues running a 357mag boolit at magnum fps without a GC. Unless you are using something closer to pure lead then the gas check would be needed MAYBE. As I've not ran any pure lead at magnum fps in any of my handguns, I can't say yes or no if you would need a check then.

[Shiloh]

Harder alloy and good fit means you cad push a little harder. 50/50 range lead/WW gets 1300. Harder alloy up yo 1400 as fast as I have ever gone.

Shiloh

[Lloyd Smale]

ill be the odd man out here. Its been my experience that gas checked bullets for the most part are more accurate and easier to find good loads for at ANY speed. Now every gun is its own animal and someone here probably has a gun that's best shooting bullet is a plain base but I'm talking in the last 40 years of my handload and in that time ive probably loaded and owned a 100 different handguns and many rifles shooting cast bullets. Now if your talking leading that's a different matter. It depends on alloy used. Use a 22bhn alloy and ive shot plain based bullets at 1800 fps without leading but the big thing here is it has to be a good barrel. Ive seen guns that leaded at 800 fps. But a pretty fair rule of thumb for the average barrel is about 1300-1400 fps. But alloy plays as much into that equation as velocity does. You can push a 10 bhn bullet at 1300 fps with a check but a plain base at that hardness is probably going to lead at least a small amount, at least in an average gun. A poor gun might lead heavy and a exceptional one not at all.

[MT Gianni]

No one willingly pays extra for equal results. A hp and a soft alloy will require a gc for anything less than perfect barrel fit and alignment. A tough alloy boolit in a hand gun may run over 1600 fps if fit is there with a pb. Push a 357 hard in a model 92 and you probably will need one. A lot depends on the individual chamber alignment with the bore. Blanket statements will cover most but not all situations, you may have to shoot and see.

[dtknowles]

The bench rest cast bullet shooters have separate catagories for Plain Base and Gas Checked. They think it is easier to shoot smaller groups with gas checked bullets but you might not be able to tell the difference in your gun.

Tim

[lotech]

Depends on the gun and bore. I prefer to avoid gas checks, but, with some revolvers, .357 or what have you, gas checked bullets guns are often easier to get good accuracy with.

[mdi]

I have read that besides preventing leading, gas checks can/do prevent bullet skidding too...

[rintinglen]

No one willingly pays extra for equal results. A hp and a soft alloy will require a gc for anything less than perfect barrel fit and alignment. A tough alloy boolit in a hand gun may run over 1600 fps if fit is there with a pb. Push a 357 hard in a model 92 and you probably will need one. A lot depends on the individual chamber alignment with the bore. Blanket statements will cover most but not all situations, you may have to shoot and see.

truer words were never spoken. Each gun dictates what works best and what doesn't. I have never needed a gas check in any 44 magnum, until I bought this Model 69. It leads severely regardless of what I do. Any cast shooting I do in the future with it will have to be gas checked. Yet I have three other 44 Mags that are unanimous in their acceptance of Plain base boolits, at what ever speed I care to launch them.

All that aside, I have found the .357 more susceptible to leading. I have had 10 357's IIRC, and currently have 4. Three of them I recall as having given problems with leading. YMMV, but you won't know until you try your boolits in your gun.

[jamesp81]

OK, so clearly, the answer is I won't know until I try. For reference, I'll be loading for a 4" GP100 and an 18.5" Ruger 77/357. I am considering just loading to 38 special levels to avoid potential issues, but the big crackenboomers are more fun if you get them to work.

[dtknowles]

OK, so clearly, the answer is I won't know until I try. For reference, I'll be loading for a 4" GP100 and an 18.5" Ruger 77/357. I am considering just loading to 38 special levels to avoid potential issues, but the big crackenboomers are more fun if you get them to work.

Yeah, it is easier to make hits at 100 yards and beyond if you have more juice in the load.

Tim

[quilbilly]

I have a 357 Max carbine that I shoot with both GC'ed and PB boolits. Sized to 358, I have been able to shoot PB boolits from 130 to 175 gr up to about 1420 FPS with no leading and lubed with Alox. In my 357 mag revolver, I have not had any issues shooting 135 gr CB's to 1300 fps but normally my loads are significantly slower. Every firearm has its own "personality" so yours will have to be discovered.

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

One of my favorite loads is a Lee 358-158-rf poured hard and put over 15.5 gr H110 (use at your own risk). I have not experienced much leading in 3" to 18" barrels. Sorry no velocity data.

[dtknowles]

I think that everyone focuses too much on Gas Checks to prevent Leading. Gas Checks improve accuracy!!

Tim

[nitro-express]

I view gas checks as another tool in the toolbox. If you need them, or just want to use them, they are there for you to use. Much the same as powder coating, just another tool in the toolbox.

Gas checks were a bunch cheaper BITD, they do add cost. Gas checks will prevent skidding. Gas checks will clean the barrel, they are leading negative, IOW, they not only don't as a rule lead, but they will actually remove lead deposits. They are less dependent on fit for shooting without leading. This is handy if you have more than one gun in a particular caliber and the dimensions vary among them. You can gas check some pretty ugly bullets and they will still shoot OK.

My view is that using a gas check is like hitting the easy button. Same as powder coating, have an issue, powder coat it and the issue usually goes away. The casting of bullets is very much an art form, I'm not very good at it, so I need any help I can get. The other thing I've learned is that if the fit isn't as close as it should be, lower the velocity a bit. even a pretty bad bullet will go 750 fps for the most part. This is about where you want to be with cowboy action, my passion.

I would never discourage anyone from using a gas checked bullet, or powder coating for that matter.

Nitro