Veterans to repay bonuses??

[obssd1958]

Thousands of veterans are being forced to repay bonuses from TEN years ago!!
If you think that this is a crock of sh**, follow the link to the official government petition page, below.
Maybe if we show enough outrage, this can be stopped!!

https://wh.gov/iM6Op (https://wh.gov/iM6Op)

Don

[dverna]

I saw that on the news last night. We may not know the whole story but it seems like these Vets are getting screwed.

Don Verna

[popper]

Normal corruption in the Ca. guard, no real oversight by officers (NCO in charge?). Can them all and make Ca. state pay back the $$. Wait - that won't happen, they want US to pay for it. Gee, pay 10k reservists to go 'regular' then pull everybody out (back to reserve status - with educational benefits). Typical idiots/crooks.

[jmorris]

And interest. I understand tar and feathering is kind of old fashioned but applicable, when these @$$ #*£€$ do things like this.

[dtknowles]

Make the recruiter pay the money back

Tim

[44man]

Make the recruiter pay the money back

Tim
Not his fault, comes from higher up, MUCH higher. The recruiter is a peon like the front line fodder. He is told what to do.

[shredder]

How can this be? shame.

[gnostic]

These vets were over paid and probably knew it at the time they received payment. If a taxpayer overpays, the government refunds the over paid amount. Why shouldn't that work both ways?

[montana_charlie]

This was the (state) National Guard being asked by the (national) Army to use (federal) money to increase personnel retention by offering bonuses when soldiers in given specialties and performance levels agreed to reenlist.

In addition, the Army indicated that there would be some kind of reward in store for the Guard if the program really succeeded.

Well, the best way to ensure success is to offer a bonus to every grunt who can say 'Ooah!' ... and just forget about 'specialties and peformance levels'.

Now that the Army has worked down to evaluating how that program was managed it is found to be saturated with irregularities.

I'm certain most of the blame should fall on Guard management, but a soldier who accepts a bonus that he knows he doesn't qualify for ... well, he took a risk that has come back to bite him.

[popper]

Master Sergent got jail time, other COs get off the hook.

[HarryT]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/24/us/national-guard-recruitment-bonus-repayment/index.html

How this happened
The California Guard's incentive manager, retired Master Sgt. Toni Jaffe, pleaded guilty in 2011 (https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/losangeles/press-releases/2012/former-california-national-guard-master-sergeant-sentenced-to-30-months-in-federal-prison-in-15-million-false-claims-case) to filing false claims of $15.2 million, the Department of Justice said in a statement.
"When she pleaded guilty, Jaffe admitted that from the fall of 2007 through October 2009, she routinely submitted false and fictitious claims on behalf of her fellow California National Guard members," the Department of Justice said in a statement.
"Jaffe admitted that she submitted claims to pay bonuses to members of the California National Guard whom she knew were not eligible to receive the bonuses and to pay off officer's loans, even though she knew the officers were ineligible for loan repayment."
In 2012, the sergeant was sentenced to 30 months in federal prison.
Three officers also pleaded guilty to fraud and were put on probation after paying restitution, the Times reported.

[Tackleberry41]

The military was desperate for bodies, so resorted to these bonuses to get the retention levels they wanted. Now that the war is over, they decided it was done wrong. They got their use out of the people, and now somebody has to be screwed over. This is a pentagon who lost how many pallets of cash in Iraq? Seems they should take their lumps and move on. Was a news article today that seems congress is going to fix the situation by forgiving the debts. They have had people on the news who were threatened with all sorts of debt collections, vets who were refinancing their homes to get out from under this 'debt'.

Debt to most of us is, you borrow money. These soldiers didnt borrow the money, it was promised to them. But just the way stuff is done in the military. Recruiters are like car salesmen, will say anything to reach their quota. I remember when I went to Parris Island, asked about some things I had been promised. 'Got it in writing....then sucks being you', my first lesson in how things are done. When I went to check out for my last time, they discovered I owed $640, for equipment lost or destroyed in desert storm. I had filled out the proper paperwork as required, in triplicate. But it had been conveniently lost. So if I wanted my discharge, I had to pay up. Had a circular argument with some admin pogue, since I was getting a severance check, I could cash it and pay that money. Nope cough up the cash then you get your check. So I had to go scrounge up the stuff missing, guess it was cheaper, as I simply traded gear 'borrowed' from supply.

[dtknowles]

Not his fault, comes from higher up, MUCH higher. The recruiter is a peon like the front line fodder. He is told what to do.

Yes and no. Recruiters are not told to break the rules and falsify documentation or lie to recruits. Yes they have goals and pressure from their superiors plus if they are ordered to falsify or lie they need to report it not comply.

Tim

[458mag]

Ronald Reagan said it years ago. What ever the gov gives you it can also take back.

[quilbilly]

What I found interesting in the initial reports was that the bonus was only supposed to go non combat specialties like public affairs people. Like anything in the media now, you have to wonder how much is true.

[popper]

It will all be covered up, House is already trying to find a way to cover the 'loss'. https://www.usds.gov/work Another 'waste' of $$, 18F & this outfit get paid to make web pages for the Gov. Apparently they aren't very good at it. Special outfits started by Obummer. Oh AF drone pilots getting 'incentive' pay to re-up.

[snowwolfe]

Being a USAF career veteran my hunch is there is more to this story than what we are being told. Something just doesn't smell right.

[jcwit]

If nothing else we all know now where there some of the Deplorables are at!

[Mustangpalmer1911]

Last I seen it looks like Congress is putting a squash on the Pentagon doing this.

[MUSTANG]

I believe that most of the National Guard "Victims" will find that they are subject to the "FINE PRINT" in their Bonus Contracts. I had to write a check to the US Government for almost $5,000.00 when I was commissioned. Seems that when I accepted a commission from the ranks; I BROKE MY PREVIOUS BONUS CONTRACT because although I would still be in the Marine Corps for the period the re-enlistment bonus was effective; I would not be in the Military Occupation Specialty I had re-enlisted and taken the Bonus for.

As Tackleberry41 stated in post #12 above, the philosophy is often ...then sucks being you.

If the National Guard members were single mothers with lots of kids, or bums on the street; the Feds would be tripping all over themselves to correct a wrong or pass special exemptions. But, if they provide the Nation a valuable service (Defense of the Country), then we need to parse every phrase and unspecified intention within a document. I feel for these National Guard members, but I suspect they are not in the "Legalistic Right".

[MaryB]

How many of these soldiers knew the bonuses only applied to certain specialties or did the recruiter say hey! Sign up and get a bonus! And not tell them the details?

[StolzerandSons]

How many of these soldiers knew the bonuses only applied to certain specialties or did the recruiter say hey! Sign up and get a bonus! And not tell them the details?
Maybe things have changed since I signed(20+ years ago now) but everything was spelled out in writing and I was encouraged several times to read my contract before signing. I would bet that all the "details" were in writing and that these soldiers had to sign on the line to get their bonus. It's your responsibility to read the contract before signing it, so it doesn't matter what they were told it only matters what they signed. What they signed can be argued over in Federal Claims Court, it is after all a contract with the gov't.

[Mk42gunner]

Maybe things have changed since I signed(20+ years ago now) but everything was spelled out in writing and I was encouraged several times to read my contract before signing. I would bet that all the "details" were in writing and that these soldiers had to sign on the line to get their bonus. It's your responsibility to read the contract before signing it, so it doesn't matter what they were told it only matters what they signed. What they signed can be argued over in Federal Claims Court, it is after all a contract with the gov't.

Yep, and if you were reenlisting under any kind of special program for a bonus, You needed to make sure the program applied to your situation.

Robert

[Ickisrulz]

There is already an avenue for requesting forgiveness of debts owed to the military. Have these people tried using it? National news stories get high level attention, I guess.

http://www.dfas.mil/waiversandremissions.html

[bedbugbilly]

And the left wonders why the push is on to "drain the swamp"?

This whole thing is wrong but then, look who is C in C. The amount they are talking about is "pocket change" to Bonnie and Clyde Clinton . . . let them pay it back. Oh, I forgot . . . . they are too busy using their pocket change for "payoffs". What else can be said other than . . . . VOTE TRUMP!

[jonp]

Maybe things have changed since I signed(20+ years ago now) but everything was spelled out in writing and I was encouraged several times to read my contract before signing. I would bet that all the "details" were in writing and that these soldiers had to sign on the line to get their bonus. It's your responsibility to read the contract before signing it, so it doesn't matter what they were told it only matters what they signed. What they signed can be argued over in Federal Claims Court, it is after all a contract with the gov't.
So was mine. My recruiter was crystal clear in everything and made sure i understood what i was signing and what it meant. I can honestly say everything he told me was spot on and when i saw him at the college i was at setting up a table told him so. My daughter is a recruiter now. She said her boss has told them over and over to make sure the recruits understand what is going on and personaly reviews everything including meeting with the recruit before the final John Hancock so there are no misunderstandings. Bad recruiters are out there but when discovered are hammered hard and their career is over

[lefty o]

virtually guaranteed that those who got this and were not supposed to knew it, and thought they were getting over on the system. they should absolutely have to repay it.

[MUSTANG]

The Secretary of Defense (Ashton Carter) was reported by Fox News this morning to have said the recoupment of Bonuses from California National Guard Members was "On Hold". Of course, on hold does not mean cancelled/will not happen. To me seems reasonable that a political appointee will want to put Review and Determination of the issue on hold until after the election in a couple of weeks.