Lead Alloy for a 1873 Winchester made in 1881 in 44-40?

[terryt]

Hi:
What is a good lead alloy for a 1873 Winchester made in 1881 in 44-40?

Also does anyone know what the original boolit weight was for the 44-40?

What smokeless powder load would duplicate the original load?

Thanks,

Terry

[runfiverun]

200grs.
the factory's used 40-1
4198.

[w30wcf]

From: http://www.leverguns.com/articles/44wcf.htm

Until 1885, both the 44 W.C.F. & .44-40 cartridges were dimensionally the same and both used a 200 gr. bullet over 40 grains of black powder. However, from 1886 until 1904, the .44-40 cartridge would carry a heavier 217 gr. bullet .The .44 W.C.F. cartridge on the other hand, would continue to be offered with the 200 gr. bullet. Both Winchester and U.M.C. loaded both versions of these cartridges with their different bullet weights. In 1904, U.M.C. changed the bullet weight of their .44-40 cartridge back to 200 grs. but Winchester continued to offer the 217gr. bullet in their .44-40 cartridge for several more years until they also standardized on the 200 gr. bullet for both the .44 W.C.F. and .44-40 cartridges.
If you are using smokeless at about 1,300 f.p.s., 10-12 bhn would be pretty ideal. 15/2400 would be good choice.

w30wcf

[Outpost75]

If wanting to shoot a clean- burning smokeless load in an 1873, which does not exceed SAAMI pressure, being safe in the older rifles, a nominal case full of either RL7, H4198 or IMR4198, lightly compressed, about 1/8", is a safe "full charge" load which approximates the black powder velocity with a suitable soft cast bullet, no harder than 12 BHN, but ideally 6-8 BHN, from 200-215 grains. Accurate 43-215C is the bullet of choice, but others will "work"...

[lightman]

I shoot the 200 gr RCBS bullet cast from wheelwrights in my '73.

[masscaster]

I cast them from a 4 cav. Lyman mould using 12 lbs coww & 6 lbs soww. They drop @ 210 grs. water quenched. The folks shoot them sized .430, be sure and slug it to be sure.
Also, most seem to be loading Unique as copied from my Lyman Hand loader's Manual.
On a side note, I do have a brand new 3 cav. 200 gr. NOE mould on hand. The man bought it, then decided to shoot my Lyman boolits. So I traded for it.
PM me if interested.

Jeff

[w30wcf]

terryt,
Excellent advice from our fellow enthusiasts ...to which I will add....

Your 1873 was made in the black powder era which means that the barrel dimensions (bore/groove diameters) were not held to very close tolerances. As an example, my 1873, made in 1882, has a barrel that averages .435" in the groove which is .008" over standard (.427").

By comparison, a friend has an 1873 made the same year whose barrel is .426" in the groove or .001" less than standard.

Back in that era, soft lead bullets propelled by black powder would shoot accurately from different barrel dimensions, the b.p. bumping up the bullets to fit the oversized barrels.

So, it would be best to slug your barrel to find out what your barrel measures. Let us know that and we can give you some additional information for the best solution of shooting smokeless in your vintage '73.

w30wcf

[blue32]

Range scrap has worked excellent in my '73 repro for 32-20. Lubed with SPG or RCBS handgun (#80008), the alloy is perfect for smokeless or bp loads within the range of pressure the '73 can accept.

[Frank V]

w30wcf, Thanks for that link on the .44WCF.
I don't have a rifle, but it's a lot of fun in a six-gun!
Trailboss, Titegroup, Unique, RedDot, HP38 aka WW231, Herco, HS6, work wonderfully in handguns. I don't try to magnamize it & have taken small game, Badger, Coyote with it.:mrgreen:
I'm staying tuned to see about rifles maybe one day a nice '73 will come my way!

[Outpost75]

In the event that your original 1873 has a loose groove diameter, but tight chamber neck, which does not permit loading a bullet sized to fit a large barrel groove diameter, Accurate produces the 43-200Q and 43-200QL bullets. These have a smaller diameter heeled shank, so as not to increase neck diameter of the loaded cartridge, whereas the nose casts very large, to permit sizing it to fit a worn throat or oversized barrel. The 43-200Q has a small lubricating groove intended for smokeless powder only and has a stepped shank, whereas the 43-200QL has a cylindrical shank and larger lubricating groove which is better for loading black powder, although for long strings of fire the Accurate 43-215C has greater lubricant capacity and would be preferred.

179837 179838179839

[runfiverun]

that QL looks super similar to the mold I use.
only mine is full size all the way up.
I initially size/lube to 428 then bump it up to 4305 in my swage die.
it shoots a ton better at the larger diameter and I don't have to bang it in the butt anymore to get it to take the rifling.