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Orygun
06-09-2008, 11:57 PM
Posted this on the 1911 forum, but seemed appropriate here as well.......

Finally got a chance to put my CQB Elite on the Ransom today and test a couple of loads. Actually the same load, just different lube which is what I wanted to compare. Here's the particulars.......

Wilson CQB Elite .45 ACP
Bullet - Lyman 452460 200 gr. LSWC (WW) + 2% Sn, water dropped
Jake's Purple Lube
5.2 gr. Titegroup
Win. LP primer
Win. Brass

Target at 25 yds.


What I wanted to know was if there was much of a difference between 50/50 Alox and the (much nicer to handle, harder lube...ie: Jakes Purple).

Only did two 5 shot groups of each on the ransom, but it showed me all I needed to know. The Jake's lubed rounds beat out the alox by 1/4". No revelation, but it's so much nicer to deal with the harder lube in many ways.

runfiverun
06-10-2008, 12:26 AM
if you change that to 5.1 gr titegroup
that is xactly what i shoot , no water drop though..and no smoke either.

Dale53
06-10-2008, 09:45 AM
orygun;
Not to argue with your choice, but you might consider the fact that five rounds is not near enough to make a determination. Some time ago I had a talk with a statistician. He stated that it took at least thirty rounds to make a determination (in this case which load is better). I would suggest that if you really wanted to know which is best to shoot three ten shot groups. Then you might find which is REALLY the best.

Sure looks like a good load, tho':mrgreen:!

Just a thought...

Dale53

felix
06-10-2008, 10:21 AM
Dale53, yep, that's indeed true about the 30 shots being required for statistics. But, 5 shots is the most used typical demarcation because that amount seems like that is all one person can do with equal confidence per shot. Any more, I need to drop to 3 shots for the same level of satisfaction. Need to have the accuracy determined for the entire "system" for any legit statistic, but that statistic would not be comparable between shooters. ... felix

Orygun
06-10-2008, 12:54 PM
Oh, I intend to do more testing when I get a chance on a nicer day, but again I think this showed me that there really is no reason to put up with the Alox lube anymore.

It smells nice :), but it's sticky, smokey and the need to clean chamber/bbl. more often when shooting quantities, etc. is a pain. As well as handling them when loading in a progressive press.

I'm not particularly fond of reloading or casting, so when I do get in the mood, I like to cast or load in quantities of at least 500 and usually 1K rds. at a time. Hence by water dropping boolits and being able to go right to sizing and lubing soon after, things go quicker for me.

I may do a test with the Lee #68 clone (although I know that the above load shoots very well with this boolit) and definitely will once we get the new Lee #68 copies.

I'm not a bullseye shooter....mostly plinking at steel clangers, rolling cans, etc., so if I know that I'm getting decent groups with massed produced ammo, I'm pretty happy. :Fire:

Orygun
08-07-2008, 04:43 PM
I resurected this thread to share another lube test. All of the particulars are the same as on my original post, except this was done at 50 yards. Yes, fifty yards! Now, don't get me wrong, as I did not have any other targets as good as this one, but it did indeed show me that the hard lube was consistently better than the Alox by a small margain.

I shot quite a few targets with each load/lube (from the Ransom rest) and have definately decided not to fool with the messy, sticky alox for this load.

Come on, you have to admit this is a pretty 5 shot group! :drinks:

Dale53
08-07-2008, 05:21 PM
Well, i'm impressed!:drinks:

Dale53

Orygun
08-07-2008, 05:33 PM
Well, i'm impressed!:drinks:

Dale53

Boy, howdy, so was I. Anytime you can get a group like that with your own cast boolits and reloads, it's gonna make you smile. :)

Larry Gibson
08-07-2008, 05:58 PM
Yes those are nice groups. I have to go along with Dale53, one 5 shot group with each and only 1/4" difference is not enough to seriously make a choice based on accuracy. It might be enough for a choice based on your obvious liking of the "easier to handle" lubed bullets though. What I would do is shoot as many rounds as I might in a practice session or a competion without cleaning the barrel and then shoot a test group. I would do that with each lube. That would tell me which lube would hold up best over the long haul. Since you are using a Ransom Rest felix's concern of "that amount seems like that is all one person can do with equal confidence per shot" is unfounded. I would shoot at least a full magazine for group also. At the end of that test I would feel confident in my choice of lubes.

Larry Gibson

Orygun
08-07-2008, 06:52 PM
Yes those are nice groups. I have to go along with Dale53, one 5 shot group with each and only 1/4" difference is not enough to seriously make a choice based on accuracy. It might be enough for a choice based on your obvious liking of the "easier to handle" lubed bullets though. What I would do is shoot as many rounds as I might in a practice session or a competion without cleaning the barrel and then shoot a test group. I would do that with each lube. That would tell me which lube would hold up best over the long haul. Since you are using a Ransom Rest felix's concern of "that amount seems like that is all one person can do with equal confidence per shot" is unfounded. I would shoot at least a full magazine for group also. At the end of that test I would feel confident in my choice of lubes.

Larry Gibson

Larry,
I agree with you totally. I did actually clean the BBL between the Jakes's and Alox and it was the 2nd or 3rd group that printed so well. Looking at the rest of the targets between the two lubes I have decided that the hard lube is as good and mostly better than the Alox and again, that's all I wanted to know as I'm basically a plinker and feel confident that it is as good as (I) need it it to be.

It truly is fun to do the different load testings, but after that I'm happy to bang away at clangers, water bottles and maybe some ground squirrels. :)

I intend to do more later, but now is is a busy time for me, so it may be fall before anthor report.

Thanks for looking and replying with your comments.

Larry Gibson
08-07-2008, 07:28 PM
Orygun

Where are you at in Oregon? I'm a native Oregonian myself. I've been up here in Washington since '91....keep telling my wife I'm just a tourist passing through but she's not buying it. I was raised in the Salem/Dallas area but left there when I enlisted in the Army. Spent 4 years back there after but LE work took me to NE Oregon. The Army took me back up here in '91. As Oregon was my HOR I always went back there to hunt. Now that I'm retired that's not an option unless I move back. Probably will move out of this congested area in a couple years but not sure where to yet.

Larry Gibson