Lee's 358-140 SWC

[Bman]

This is my first 6 cav Lee mould and I like it much better than their 1 and 2 holers.

My question is this what to do about load data? Most of what I have and have found on the net is for either much heavier or lighter bullets. I am currently using I think (need to check records) 2.7 W231. I thought this worked real well. The first testing was at 15 yds and gave excellent results but double the range and the bullets tumble. The gun is a 5 screw K 38. I have another mod 10 adn a .357 so not worried about loads there but have been advised to avoid +p's in the 5 screw. I'm sure I can work up a bit so its not the end of the world.

Does anyone here use this bullet and possibly have a few recipies I might consider? Anything that has served well in the past?

TIA
B

[Blackwater]

Bman, it's not the exact same bullet, but I shot 5.0 gr. of Unique in .38 cases with the somewhat longer 150 HP version, which actually comes out at 142 gr. when cast of WW's. Shot really well. Lee moulds can sometimes run on the small side of gun tolerances, so upping your load to manual limits MAY help by "bumping up" your bullets' diameter on ignition, if you're using a soft enough alloy. It would probably prove enlightening to slug your cylinder throats and see if there's a mismatch with your bullet diameter. I shot those 150 HPs out to 200 yds, and they were still danged accurate. A different alloy may help get your bullets up to a better diameter also.

[David R]

Bman,

Most any data for a heavier cast boolit in your caliber should be safe with the one you are using now.

David

[fecmech]

Bman--You are probably not even getting 600fps with that load and that would explain the tumbling. Lyman cast bullet handbook (for a rn 146 gr.) lists 3.2 of 231 as a start load which is 617fps and 7900cup. Max is 5.0/231 for 930 fps @16700 cup. IMO your old K frame should be able to handle anything in that range. Good luck Nick

[Bman]

Wow I did not realize I was pushing them that slow. Doesn't help any that my K 38 has a 6" tube. BTW my scale is one of the Lee jobbies so useless for anything over 100 gr. unless you cut it into smaller chunks. But I may do that to see if using WW lightens these up to say 130 or so.
I wonder if the HP are so light because it is the same bullet w/o HP and the non HP is near 150 grs?

My alloy is straight ACWW. Sized .359 and lubed with 50/50 by volume bees wax/molly grease. ( I do need to add more wax to stiffen a bit)

So basically I have been using a 50% reduced charge of W231.
Other powders I have on hand are Unique and a smidge of Titegroup, 2400 and H110. The last two are right out for this though.

Thanks for the info guys!

Brian

[Bman]

Just weighed one at 138.9 grs. lubed. Also I just remembered that I was using about 1 part salvaged sinker lead to 9 WW on that batch of boolits.

[MTWeatherman]

I have that bullet in a two holer.

Three lubed WW bullets from the mould averaged 139.4 gr. Suspect that Lee's tolerance on their mould could account for the slight difference from yours.

[Bman]

MTW,
I'm sure and I only weighed one bullet. I would expect some variation from mold to mold and even cavity to cavity in a gang mold. Hopefully not too much. The close range accuracy I have gotten from this bullet shows great promise. My plan is to carry the K38 deer hunting for smaller stuff like squirrel for the pot.

[MTWeatherman]

MTW,
I'm sure and I only weighed one bullet. I would expect some variation from mold to mold and even cavity to cavity in a gang mold. Hopefully not too much. The close range accuracy I have gotten from this bullet shows great promise. My plan is to carry the K38 deer hunting for smaller stuff like squirrel for the pot.

Yep, essentially we got the same reading...just wanted to confirm that your reading on your cut bullet was on the mark.

FWIW. I use this bullet in a modified 9mm Hi-Point Carbine (throats been lapped to handle a longer OAL cartridge to allow SWCs). As a result, my use is at much higher velocities than you will ever use. However, at those velocities, its the most accurate cast bullet I've found for the carbine in trying 7 different cast 9mm and .357 bullets....3/4 inch 25 yard groups. I get the best accuracy by only lubing the bottom groove.

[35remington]

Bman, I too have had good luck with the Lee 140 SWC, and can only confirm that your charge of powder is on the excessively light side. Since the bullet doesn't occupy much case volume, you might find that velocities vary a bit unless you're careful about powder position. For that reason, Titegroup might be worth investigating since they advertise it as being less position sensitive. I'm in the 4.0 grain region with W231 and it is a mild load. It seems to be an inherently accurate bullet and groups well with a large assortment of powders, as long as you don't try for magnum velocities with it. Only downside is it hits a little low in fixed sight revolvers like my Smith Model 10.

Works good in the .35 Remington, too, if the diameter is large enough. My own mould casts at .360."

[Bman]

35remington,
What do you use in you .35 to push them along. I live where I can shoot some in the back yard but still prefer not to rile the neighbors up too much with full power loads. Also I was eyeballing this for my 35 for armadillo control in the worm bed. If I had to guess unique or 2400 would be better suited for this?

Just mic'd a few of my rejects that weren't too bad. (all my good ones are loaded or shot! Time to get casting) Those mic out 359 360 or so. I know my sizer is supposed to be 359. I went that route because I didn't think it would be too big for my handguns and I'm hoping .359 will work in the rifle.

I know that some 158 bbswc's I had would not chamber if crimped in the crimp groove. I have a Lee FCD and had to crimp into the forward driving band on those. Can you use the crimp groove on your 140's? And do you think I'd get into any trouble starting with about 8 grs of Unique? I don't see why I would but...

EDIT: scrounging around the load bench I found about 100-125 good ones I forgot I had. Guess it's time to organize??

[35remington]

Any of those powders mentioned here can work. It's just a matter of stumbling upon which one shoots best. Yes, I can crimp in the groove, mainly because the case has a firm grip on the bullet so loaded and the round will not pull out on ejection even if it's engraved by the rifling. The amount of lead forward of the crimp groove ain't much with the 140. My Marlins engage the front band pretty firmly. The lever seats with a little snugness when the front band gets pressed in the rifling but it doesn't require that much effort.

A few load notes close at hand:

8.0 grains Unique (happens to coincide with your idea of a starting load)
gives 1300 fps.
9.0 W231/1400 fps
11.5 SR4759 (a little sooty; low pressure) 1150 fps.
17.0 Reloder 7 1300 fps
7.0 W231 1300 fps

I used dacron with these loads. They're significantly noisier than a .22, but they'd make good varmint plinking loads.

I often load at the range to determine what will shoot so I don't waste time and powder on bad combinations. I use the Lee Auto disk measure with the rifle charging die and vary charges until I find something that works. That way you don't have to weigh charges on a windswept range, and when I get home I weigh the charge and record that for reference. Should be fun finding what works in the .35.

[Bman]

Thanks for the info 35! Being louder than a .22 isn't a big deal and truthfully I doubt my neighbors care much either way.

I'm guessing that at 1200-1400 these do a job on varmits?

It's time to sight in for deer season. I use a scope hunting even though its thick here, we must have 5" of antler above the hairline to take a buck. I hope to find a load that hits close to something repeatable in the cross hairs. With the 140's.

It's a horrible thing to have to load and shoot so much.

B.