Saw this on youtube

[Sasquatch-1]

Saw the 30 second video on youtube. It is using the striker wheel from a Zippo style lighter. Tried to find more about it but couldn't. Anyone familiar with how to set this up?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PArihDiGCUg

[rfd]

they were sold off ebay years ago, the hammer steel has glued-on leather for the wheel to grip and spin, rubbing on the flint stick, making the sparks. illegal at most shoots, mixed reviews on its performance for hunting,

[Omnivore]

I don't know what a "hammer steel" is, but the frizzen would need to have leather or neoprene or something similar on it, so the wheel would be gripped and rotated.

That's a hybrid between the earlier wheel lock and the flintlock, so in that sense it's a step backward.

So what's the point? You'd need to set that up properly, just like a proper flintlock needs to be set up properly, but then you have more mechanical complexity and you'd still have to be replacing the little Zippo "flints". A properly setup, true flintlock will work nicely, so where is the interest in altering it? It's a neat video (did you notice that the frizzen appears to be made of rubber?) and so I'm satisfied with leaving it at that. If you want a faster system then get a percussion lock.

As an aside; iirc, the flintlock dominated firearm design longer than any other system, including our current metal cartridge system. By the time the flintlock was replaced by the superior percussion system, it was a very mature technology, meaning it was well-developed, tweaked, optimized, etc.

[rfd]

frizzen = hammer steel. they're one and the same. the original centuries old term is "hammer steel". people these dayze also call the cock a hammer.

i'll stick a flint stone in me smoothie's cock, rather than a zippo lighter. :)

[Omnivore]

Ah! Thanks for the lesson, rfd. That makes sense. I learned something today : )

[Sasquatch-1]

I have an old Euroarms Kentuckian with a fairly soft frizzen. I have had it hardened once and it works fair. This just looked like a neat idea to try without having to do major modifications to the lock. The other alternatives is either fitting a new $150.00 plus lock to the gun (which probably isn't worth much more then that) or having a new frizzen fitted (Price unknown.)

In the video the flash appears to be all spark without priming powder. If that is the case you might not even need priming powder.




So what's the point? You'd need to set that up properly, just like a proper flintlock needs to be set up properly, but then you have more mechanical complexity and you'd still have to be replacing the little Zippo "flints". A properly setup, true flintlock will work nicely, so where is the interest in altering it? It's a neat video (did you notice that the frizzen appears to be made of rubber?) and so I'm satisfied with leaving it at that. If you want a faster system then get a percussion lock.

As an aside; iirc, the flintlock dominated firearm design longer than any other system, including our current metal cartridge system. By the time the flintlock was replaced by the superior percussion system, it was a very mature technology, meaning it was well-developed, tweaked, optimized, etc.

[rfd]

... By the time the flintlock was replaced by the superior percussion system, it was a very mature technology, meaning it was well-developed, tweaked, optimized, etc.

personally, i don't think for a minute that cap locks are superior to flint locks. if anything, i see it the other way around. ymmv.

[Omnivore]

personally, i don't think for a minute that cap locks are superior to flint locks. if anything, i see it the other way around. ymmv.

"Superioriy", like beauty, is of course often in the eyes of the beholder, and far be it from me to try to make anyone unhappy with the things they like. The flintlock has a lot going for it, I'll admit (for one thing you don't need a supply of caps, and if you live in certain places you can forage for flint, or agate) but technically speaking, the percussion system did over-take the flint system fairly quickly and fairly completely in that transition period in the 1800s, as the military state-of-the-art.

Sasquatch; another option would be to line the frizzen face with some better steel. That could be done at home with a few basic tools, a lot patience, and a propane torch and hard solder. It's probably been detailed on this forum, and could be found in a search. I know I've seen it somewhere.

[koehlerrk]

Let me put my Safety Nazi helmet on for a moment...

No, no, oh heck NO! Not on my range!

The striker wheel is always in contact with the flint. In fact, its under spring pressure. Therefore, there is no safety, no way to interrupt the firing chain. The fact that it may work without powder in the pan makes this even worse! Rant off.

If I saw someone with one of these at the range where I am a RSO, they would be asked to unload it, case it, and put it back in their vehicle. The fact that it can't be made inoperable without removing parts is a major red flag.

[reivertom]

They are just another useless, complex solution to a non-existent problem.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

Let me put my Safety Nazi helmet on for a moment...
The striker wheel is always in contact with the flint. In fact, its under spring pressure. Therefore, there is no safety, no way to interrupt the firing chain. The fact that it may work without powder in the pan makes this even worse! Rant off.



From what i see, it has to hit the frizzen in order for the zippo deal to work which means its just like a flinter. Open the frizzen, lower the cock and all is perfectly safe.

[rfd]

i can't possibly see how such an abomination is to be considered safe because that wheel can be thumbed, or accidentally brushed against most anything. don't matter than the pan is closed down by the hammer steel, either, as all it takes is one loose kernal to get sparked. plain and simple, it's deadly unsafe and why we push our powder horns behind our backs whence pulling the ignition key.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

LOL yeah but im betting your car/truck has an electric fuel pump sittingin a 20 gallon tank of fuel.

[rfd]

LOL yeah but im betting your car/truck has an electric fuel pump sittingin a 20 gallon tank of fuel.

there's a huge difference 'tween that and a zippo igniter sitting next to bp, so better you messing with it than me, sport.

[Sasquatch-1]

Boy, did I stir up a hornets nest here. I just thought it was kind of cool and could be a work around for a cheap flinter with a soft frizzen.

[rfd]

there is no "homet's nest", only opinions which appear to swing 180*. we're all adults, we can do as we please, then deal with the consequences. the zippo igniter is just that - a free standing ignition system that doesn't need to hit the frizzen to spark, and so it's up to you to determine it's effectiveness and safety. some of us (me) think it's unsafe (and i'll add fugly dumb), others feel it's safe and worthy. your call. i'll add, if there was any merit to it, it'd be marketed as the next best thing to sliced bread ... i'd wager the bean counters are more concerned over litigious safety factors.

[Sasquatch-1]

It doesn't really matter since I couldn't find any info on it other then the video.


there is no "homet's nest", only opinions which appear to swing 180*. we're all adults, we can do as we please, then deal with the consequences. the zippo igniter is just that - a free standing ignition system that doesn't need to hit the frizzen to spark, and so it's up to you to determine it's effectiveness and safety. some of us (me) think it's unsafe (and i'll add fugly dumb), others feel it's safe and worthy. your call. i'll add, if there was any merit to it, it'd be marketed as the next best thing to sliced bread ... i'd wager the bean counters are more concerned over litigious safety factors.

[mozeppa]

yeah....because match locks were so very safe!

[rfd]

yeah....because match locks were so very safe!

yikes! those things probably hurt/killed more of their shooters than the targets they aimed at!

i don't think you'll see the zippo igniter being offered simply for that reason - it's just not a safe system.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

yeah but the match lock is a real traditional arm. Flinters are new fangled things like todays inlines. A flinter can easily spark by accident when the cock is dropped prematurely.

Then you got some guys that claim their flinters are so awesome, they fire off without any powder in the pan! :D

[Tracy]

Brushhippie has one: https://youtu.be/ual16PKp44k

[rfd]

yeah but the match lock is a real traditional arm. Flinters are new fangled things like todays inlines. A flinter can easily spark by accident when the cock is dropped prematurely.

so what? match locks have an open fire, flinters and caplocks don't. your opinion/argument makes no sense.


Then you got some guys that claim their flinters are so awesome, they fire off without any powder in the pan!

while this CAN occur, it's nothing like either having an open fire (matchlock) or a too-easy-to-spark flint (zippo)




..........................

[koehlerrk]

LOL yeah but im betting your car/truck has an electric fuel pump sittingin a 20 gallon tank of fuel.

Umm, FYI, liquid gasoline doesn't burn except at a surface that's exposed to oxygen. So a submerged fuel pump a) won't spark, and b) has no oxygen to support combustion. Hence, in tank fuel pumps are just fine.

My biggest issue with the zippo lighter is that it can create a spark at any time, there is no way to interrupt the firing chain.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

really and in what way do you store your rifle?

Also, it would be pretty simple gadget to remove for storage would it not?

[rfd]

really and in what way do you store your rifle?

Also, it would be pretty simple gadget to remove for storage would it not?

jon, what part of "it's a self contained sparking unit while in the cock jaws" can't you grasp?

this zippo igniter would be banned at any NRA affiliated gun range - and as an NRA RSO, i'd make that abundantly clear. it's just plain not safe.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

sure seems safe to me, stored in the uncocked position and inside a gun case. Ever hear of any lighters/ zippo lighters going off in someones pants?

[bubba.50]

a disposable lighter went off in my cousin's shirt pocket one time. he got scorched on the chest, ruined the shirt & likely his drawers too. :mrgreen:

[bubba.50]

and while it's not exactly the same thing, when I was a kid two of my buddies was practicin' the wrasslin' moves they just learnt on tee-vee when the strike-anywhere matches in one of'em's back pocket went off. sure was funny watchin' him tryin' to run & take his shorts off at the same time. :twisted:

[jcwit]

Remember the depleted uranium (?) Material sold to rivit to a none sparking frizen? This was back in the 70's IIRC.

It did work very well!