Putting a sling on a winchester 94

[Bazoo]

I have a 70's vintage winchester 94, that I want to put a sling on. I purchased an uncle mikes full band magazine tube kit as a start.

First, I noticed that it was loose on the tube, allowing front to back sliding. So I took the ring off, and gave it a little hit with a hammer to make it slightly egg shaped, so that it would squeeze on the sides more. This gave it just enough tension so it wouldnt slide about.

Then, upon installation, I noticed, that while the band doesnt move on the tube, the tube itself is moving left and right some. Seems the magazine plug screw which protrudes through the plug and into a shallow hole in the barrel has a touch of play.

I surmise, that this wont be a problem, but im not sure that I want to trust it. I could modify my forearm band and install a swivel stud on that. Does anyone else have a say? How does the uncle mikes band hold up and is there any problems after a while associated with the magazine tube having play?

[OverMax]

There's at least a half dozen different ways I've read what others have done to mount the same sling band.

My suggestion:
When the band is tighten to where it won't move and it isn't binding the entrance of /or swivels shafts movement. Then its a matter of finding a way to remover the slack from the the mag tube itself. One end as you know there is the the mag Cap Screw to consider its tightening amount. The other is the Tubes entrance into its forearm and into its receiver. Receiver might not be the best place to consider its Mag tube slack removal. But the entrance to its forearm would be my preferred to tighten spot.
Once you get the looseness resolved your golden. Maybe a wrap or more of electrician black plastic tape inside the forearm may be helpful in this circumstance. I wouldn't consider pounding on the mag tubes end to make it out of round so's to fit tighter in the receiver. (No. I wouldn't do that.)

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I like OverMax's approach. There really are only two places to tighten the tube, front and rear. His idea about putting some tape or some sort of shim at the point where the tube enters the stock is worth pursuing. Does your version have a steel band with a screw through it that goes around both the barrel and the tube a couple of inches back from the muzzle, or only the band around the forestock and barrel? If you don't have the first type you could look into that also, but if you do have it then make sure that the cross screw is tight. If you do have the first type and the screw is tight but the tube is still loose you could wrap the tube at that point where it passes through the band.

[Bazoo]

I have the first type you mentioned Der Gebirgsjager with the front magazine tube band. Its screw is tight, as well as the forend cap screw.

I am an odd one, in that I dont want tape or other quick fixes on my gun.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

O.K., then--no quick fixes (and I don't think that you're odd!). I've got several of the 94s in various versions, and none of them have a loose magazine tube that wiggles side to side. Let's look at it in some detail. Down inside the forestock the tube slides into a hole in the front face of the receiver. Possibility: The tube is not quite seated all the way into the hole. Next point of contact is that front barrel band. This works because the cross screw is a very precision fit from it's entry on one side of the band, between the barrel and the magazine tube, and into the threaded hole on the other side of the band. It is so precision that I have sometimes been very frustrated trying to get it fitted in just exactly right so that the screw will thread in, and it has sometimes taken several attempts. When this screw is fitted at the factory they actually drill a small hole through the tube/barrel gap, and when the tube is removed it looks like the barrel has a slight notch at that location on it's underside. The precision and tightness of this installation is why it works to hold the tube rigidly. If the screw is undersized or perhaps was made undersized by a previous owner who was frustrated by trying to get it reassembled, that could be the cause of your problem. So in that case you would need a new screw. Possibility: The previous owner enlarged the notch a bit with a circular file to ease the installation. Should that prove to be the case you will need a larger screw installed to once again fit tightly through the notch. You see, that works to prevent the side to side shift of the tube because the screw fits the notch tightly and prevents the shifting. Sort of like a canoe with two outriggers on it. The length and diameter of the screw fitting tightly in the notch is the primary feature, and the ends of the screw are in the band, so like the canoe it can't tip if properly fitted. So if it's an undersized screw you can just order another and fix it yourself, but if the notch has been enlarged and you need a bigger screw you'll probably need a gunsmith or machinist because the holes in both sides of the band will have to be precision drilled for the larger diameter screw, and the one side tapped for the larger screw. Last Possibility: Wrong magazine cap screw, or the screw has been shortened. When the cap is removed you should see a dimple in the bottom of the barrel for the screw's tip. You should be able to get a pretty good idea if it actually does enter the dimple or not and might need a new screw. You might also be able to mill/drill out the seat for the screw's head in the cap so that it would fit deeper and lock up tighter. Your problem just about has to be one of these three things.

When I read you first post I was struck by the fact that you apparently found one of the solid ring sling swivel bases. I installed many of them, and preferred them to the split ring version where you put two halves together. In later years it seemed like the split kind was the only one I was able to get, so I had to learn to like them. But if you did find and install the solid ring version you had to have disassembled the tube from the rifle to slide it over the tube. I seem to remember them as having been a pretty tight fit, so I'm wondering why yours proved to be loose, and wonder if it was exactly the correct model. The point being though, well one of the points anyway, is that you probably had to have disassembled and reassembled the tube to the rifle; so again, any of the above three points of contact could be your problem--maybe you just didn't get it put back quite the way it was. Good luck with this, especially in getting that cross screw through that front band. I've had to re-tap more than one of them, and also re-slot the screw heads.

[Bazoo]

Thanks for the reply.

The band I have was purchased new from a local gun store.

The receiver to magazine tube fit is good, there is not play there. I was incorrect in my terminology when I said the tube was moving left to right, it is actually twisting slightly.

The front band is tight on the barrel, and is tight on the tube, and there is indeed a slot between the two. I didnt see anything out of the ordinary when I disassembled it. I will look again soon. But i do not recall the slot being shiny, as if having been filed. It is snug to get the screw through and lined up.

The magazine cap screw is the correct length, and protrudes into the small hole underneath the barrel. I will check to verify that the hole hasnt been drilled larger, and that the corresponding "pin" on the screw hasnt been shaved down.

Drilling out the front band to accept a larger screw would not be really far out of my capability, but i've not done something of the like before. I've not had much experience tapping threads. This seems like it would be the best solution however.

[Bazoo]

I believe this is the same model. https://www.amazon.com/Uncle-Mikes-Centerfire-645--660-Inch-Diameters/dp/B003IXKN8K/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1476245727&sr=8-1&keywords=uncle+mikes++magazine+tube+winchester+94

It was, when clamped, still loose, but not sloppy. I didnt have to change the shape of it much to make it squeeze on the sides. My magazine tube is just far enough from the barrel that the barrel does not set in the saddle. If I was to place the ring between the magazine cap, and the front band, it would then be snug, and not move as much, if any. I have not tried it there. But having moved it as far forward on the tube as possible, but to the rear of the front band, it does produce less play.

That said, I dont want it that far forward. my preferred position is aproximately 2 or 2 1/2 inches from the front of the forend.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I took a look at the link for the swivel. It's a one-size-fits-all, but when properly installed should not move at all. But it doesn't matter as you said you fixed that problem, and we're talking about movement of the magazine tube. With the tube seated all the way into the receiver's receptacle hole, a properly fitted barrel band and cross screw, and proper magazine cap screw it's just about impossible for the magazine tube to turn. So I'm pretty certain a careful re-examination of those features will solve the problem. Otherwise....it has to be something much less likely as perhaps the entire magazine tube was replaced at some point. I'm about out of ideas. Good luck with it.

[Bazoo]

The rifle is from the early 70s, so its hard to say what has happened to it. The receiver finish looks as if its been carried a fair amount, but doesnt show much wear, and seems to have been well taken care of. But a well taken care of rifle could have fired 5k rounds and seen a lot of deer down.

Thanks for the advice and direction.

[Malamute]

I wouldn't get too excited about trying to remove all play from the mag tube. Loosening them up a little is one of the things often done to get the guns to shoot better. When solid tight, the expansion of the barrel isn't matched by the mag tube and barrel bands and can cause stringing. Many of my Winchesters have had some minor play in the mag tube. It harms nothing in use, other than being annoying with a sling mount on it. It still doesnt hurt when that's the case.

I never liked the way the mag tube sling mounts looked, so started drilling and tapping the forend band or forend cap for the stud. On the bands, there was only a couple threads holding the stud. I never had one pull loose, but it bothered me. When setting up the Browning 92 for a sling stud, I realized that the aluminum band wouldn't hold with two threads. I ended up inletting one of the knurled nuts made for bolt action forends into the wood below the band. Its invisible when done, but extremely solid. If the stud doesn't index when torqued, the nut can be pulled out and rotated and try again. To take the gun apart, the stud is just unscrewed, then the band can come off as normal.

I think the stud mounted in the band or forend cap looks worlds better than the mag tube mounts.


Cant get pictures to load.

[Bazoo]

I have been giving it a lot of thought of late. I did inspect the parts, and i do not think they have been altered. After I inspected them more closely and surmised, as Malamute said, that they had some amount of play in them so they didnt bind the barrel.

I do not like the play, But I think i will use it anyway for now, at least until I can muster the gumption to get the band modified.

Thanks for the idea on the band Malamute.

[Malamute]

.I understand from others experience that a Marlin forend band will fit the Winchesters and has a sling stud built into it. May be worth checking to see if they are available. I had forgotten it until now. If you order one, get the screw with it, they are different than the Winchester screw. Last I heard the Marlin band was about $16 or so. Try Brownells*.

Bazoo, if that doesn't pan out, send me a PM with your email address and I'll see if I can send pics of how I modified the band. I couldn't get them to load on here for some reason. Or if somebody wants to post them, I'll send them by email.


*This http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/barrel-parts/rifle-barrel-hardware/barrel-bands/band-rear-w-stud-prod8671.aspx?avs%7cManufacturer_1=marlin

The screw shows on the page as "also bought with".

[Malamute]

Hmm, pictures worked today.

I can give more details if anyone is interested in hearing them. Not hard to do if youre handy.

179107179108179109

[Bazoo]

Thanks for the info and pictures. Im still pondering it, but this seems like my best option I think. I much prefer the look of the stud on the band as opposed to on the magazine tube. And I much prefer it being more solid the way you've figured out.

[Malamute]

Thanks for the info and pictures. Im still pondering it, but this seems like my best option I think. I much prefer the look of the stud on the band as opposed to on the magazine tube. And I much prefer it being more solid the way you've figured out.

If you decide to proceed with it, let me know and I can give a couple ideas that have made it relatively easy to get the nut inletted and to fit against the band.

[Bazoo]

I'll have to disassemble it and ponder it, which is the best way. Im thinking, perhaps I could thread the band, screw in the stud, cut it off a tad proud, and peen it over, and grind it smooth enough to still fit the forend.

[Malamute]

I'll have to disassemble it and ponder it, which is the best way. Im thinking, perhaps I could thread the band, screw in the stud, cut it off a tad proud, and peen it over, and grind it smooth enough to still fit the forend.

It can be done, but theres only about 2 threads holding the stud. Peening isn't going to add much once its ground back to not scratch the forend wood. There also should be a small flat spot on the outside of the band for the stud to seat on. Ive had to run a die up the studs before, backwards to get the threads all the way to the end.

The way I do them now, I make sure the mag tube is centered, looking at it from the muzzle with gun upside down. Then locate the centerline on the band, mark with fine sharpie. I centerpunch and drill the band and wood at once, just large enough to pass the stud shank. It needs to be well into the wood. Remove band, screw knurled nut onto stud, stick exposed end of stud in the hole in the wood, screw knurled nut down to wood, scribe outline very tightly with sharp awl, and carefully route out with dremel until the nut will just slide in and grab with its knurling. I file the side of the knurled nut that goes against the inside of the band for an even contact. Once I did the first one, I did all mine this way. Very tough connection, and fairly simple to do once understood.

Stud will need to be shortened to clear the mag tube. I assemble the band and nut off the gun and make sure I get the stud the right length. It can protrude through the nut a little, but not much.

The knurled nuts and longer machine thread studs are sometimes available individually, or may be part of the set for bolt action rifles, the nut being intended to be inside the forend of the rifle.

[Bazoo]

I still havent resolved how to attach a sling stud to the front end of my winchester. I talked to the local gunsmith, and he said that the forearm band would get lose after a while If I just attached the stud to the band. Also, said i'd eventually bend or shear the forearm band screw. He's normally reliable... but i dont know bout all that.

I like malamute's solution, but i aint done it yet. I also wonder if the marlin band would fit... but I aint picked one up yet to try. My forearm band is real tight... so unless it was a perfect fit, it wouldnt fit. I might just go with the malamute modification. Would make it stronger.

[Malamute]

I still havent resolved how to attach a sling stud to the front end of my winchester. I talked to the local gunsmith, and he said that the forearm band would get lose after a while If I just attached the stud to the band. Also, said i'd eventually bend or shear the forearm band screw. He's normally reliable... but i dont know bout all that.

I like malamute's solution, but i aint done it yet. I also wonder if the marlin band would fit... but I aint picked one up yet to try. My forearm band is real tight... so unless it was a perfect fit, it wouldnt fit. I might just go with the malamute modification. Would make it stronger.

Ive done several the way I described, two have been carried quite a lot since the 80s. Not hunting season carry, but year round carry gun carry. Havent had any bands come loose or break the screw so far.

Ive relieved a couple fore ends that the bands were really tight on. Those that monkey with accuracy modifications say it helps to not have the bands really tight, so I relieve them enough to get the bands on without forcing them if I change wood.

I havent tried the Marlin bands, but several guys on the Leverguns forum have used them and said they were basically a drop in part. Get the matching Marlin screw if you do.

Sorry if any of this is a repeat, I didn't re-read all the above posts.

ETA: I'm going to do another one soon, I'll take pics as I go.

[Groo]

Groo here
Do you have a saddle ring?[ring on left side of frame]
If so, use an AR-15 type single point sling with a clip.
PS. The saddle ring is for this purpose, a leather strap across the chest with a snap and a leather covered ring attached to the saddle.

[Bazoo]

Thanks malamute. I dont know if I want to try the marlin band or not. I kinda like the idea of the modification better for some reason.

Groo, no saddle ring.

[pietro]

.

Just a thought: R U SURE that it's the magazine tube twisting, and not the now out-of-round swivel band moving on the tube ?

I'm mentioning that because making the swivel band out-of-round isn't IME the proper way to improve a sloppy fit.

Again IME, the proper way to make the swivel band grip the magazine tube tighter is to file the inside of the lower swivel band lug, to allow the hollow screw there to draw the two sides further together than before the insides were filed.


.

[Bazoo]

Pietro, yes im sure the magazine is moving and not the band. You're right, that it would be better to file the inside of the bands lug to make it tighter, but it was fairly undersized already when squeezed to its minimum. Overall the quality of the band is low in my opinion.

[izzyjoe]

The best way is to use the Marlin band, I've also done a few like that. Years ago I bought a beat up Marlin in a pawnshop, and the previous owner drilled into the forearm installing a stud, and bent the mag tube in the process, making it a three shot! Bubba strikes again.

[Texas by God]

My 94 has the Uncle Mikes 3/4 band type with the two screws. It moved around a bit so I filed a little from the flat then reassembled with just a drop of JB weld under the band halves. Ten years later & still holding fast.
Best, Thomas.

[RedJackson]

simple answer: don't, anymore than my grouse gun has one.

[Texas by God]

:
simple answer: don't, anymore than my grouse gun has one.
I hope you don't kill a deer with your grouse gun and have to drag it one handed........

[Bazoo]

When I killed a deer 2 years ago with the winchester, I wasnt very far from the house. That said... I still needed a sling. I will most likely try the marlin band first... but I have my reservations that it will fit properly.

[725]

Many moons ago I read a machinist's article on making round slip fit device with a round center (doughnut in concept) that was off-set. The thin side fit between the barrel and mag tube and the fat side had enough meat to drill & tap for the stud location. Finished in a craftsmanship's fashion and cold blued it really looked good. Allowed the placement of a sling far enough out front as to not make the rifle hanging on your shoulder unwieldy. The rear stud was conventional and was drilled into the stock. Maybe some of our talented fellows could give advice on making one.

[Bazoo]

Well, i finally found a rear band that had a stud attached to it. Came from a place called Shootz And Latters, out of NY state. They did drilled and tapped a hole, installed the stud, welded it, ground it to clean it up and cold blued it. Looks good. Didnt take much to have it in place.

Id rather have a non removeable sling loop, instead of the stud, but this is what I got.

[Bazoo]

Well I decided I dont like the band. Its not the same quality as what was on the gun. I might try to have my band modified. Not sure what Ima do.

[pietro]

.

Here's an alternative to all that:

https://i.imgur.com/IofTwoWm.jpg https://i.imgur.com/5rkXcfWm.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Di4yX7jm.jpg

.

[Texas by God]

Not the best pic but this is my setup. Problem free for ten years so far.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180619/b50bba82329844825a8cfe794307e08b.jpg

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[chuckerbird]

Bazoo,
Have a look at the Brass Stacker. They don't look too shabby IMHO. I'm thinking about putting one on my Browning 1886.

[Bazoo]

I aint making no rash decisions, thinking I might try to have the band refinished. I can sand and polish it out to suit me, and the gunsmith will refinish it for cheap or nothing. Im going to give it some more thought and use the band the way it is for a while to make sure its the direction I want to go.

[Bazoo]

I dont like those harness slings. Im sure they work good, but they dont look good. Least in my eye. I've been pondering on having the rifle's receiver hard chromed... pending on cost. I might have that band chromed too. Not sure how long its going to take me to get in that notion though.

[Bazoo]

I had my local gunsmith reblue the band and it has been serving well for a while.

[pietro]

I dont like those harness slings.

Im sure they work good, but they dont look good.

Least in my eye.




FWIW:

IMO, "looks" don't have a lot to do with slinging it, since the sling should reside in a coat pocket when hunting with the rifle in your hands.

Leaving a sling on a rifle while hunting just invites snagging some brush at the wrong time. (BT, DT - NTS)


.

[Bazoo]

That's a good point I hadn't thought of Pietro. I'll have to ponder on it some.