cast bullets coming out way underweight

[bigolsmokebomb]

just got into casting and am kind of stumped as to what could be causing my issue. ive been reloading for about 6 years now and wanted to get into casting. picked up a lee 20lb pot a .356 124gr 6 cavity aluminum lee mold and some wheel weight lead off of ebay. ive casted about 150ish bulets in about 3 different sittings and have gotten them to look the way they should but they are all weighing between 103gr-106gr. ive contacted lee on this and they have said that the dementions of the cast bullets are correct for the 124gr mold but ive weighed around 60 bullets from the mold and all of them are in that weight range. ive cut one of the bullets in quarters with a side cutter and everything internally looks correct with no voids in the bullets themselves. has anyone had this issue before or knows what could be causing it? its stumping both me and the guy at lee and im wanting to see if anyone has ran into this before i spend the money to send the mold back to lee and have them check it out.

[OnHoPr]

Maybe post a few pics of mold and boolits for viewing and maybe someone could chime in on the issue.

[bigolsmokebomb]

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the first picture is after sorting of the last sitting i had. the small pile on the top right is the rejects. i dont have any pictures of the mold at this time but i will post some when i get home.

[Traffer]

It is indeed mysterious. The only thing I can think of is that the lead you bought was not actually wheel weight lead and is an alloy with a very high content of a much lighter metal. The only one I can think of is tin. If indeed these are a predominantly tin alloy, you are lucky. Tin is worth about 10 to 15 times as much as lead. Keep us posted as to what you figure out on this. It is very interesting.
Just thought of another possibility. Could your scale be off?

[OnHoPr]

Pretty long distance on the first pic of boolits, can't tell much. The pic on the right, those boolits look real good. They almost look like pure Pb. Is the alloy real soft? Have you mic'ed the boolits for dia? Are they out of round on the part line? Is the sprue completely filled? Ah, just a couple of thoughts, maybe a few more. Were they stick on WWs?

[bigolsmokebomb]

It is indeed mysterious. The only thing I can think of is that the lead you bought was not actually wheel weight lead and is an alloy with a very high content of a much lighter metal. The only one I can think of is tin. If indeed these are a predominantly tin alloy, you are lucky. Tin is worth about 10 to 15 times as much as lead. Keep us posted as to what you figure out on this. It is very interesting.
Just thought of another possibility. Could your scale be off?

the scale was one of the things that the guy at lee had suspected, i have ruled out that as a possibility as I tested it with the calibration weight that came with the scale and commercial 147gr 9mm bullets and all was correct. its the same scale I use for powder measurements and its accurate to within .1 grains.

[bigolsmokebomb]

Pretty long distance on the first pic of boolits, can't tell much. The pic on the right, those boolits look real good. They almost look like pure Pb. Is the alloy real soft? Have you mic'ed the boolits for dia? Are they out of round on the part line? Is the sprue completely filled? Ah, just a couple of thoughts, maybe a few more. Were they stick on WWs?

I have mic'ed the rounds and they are all .356-.358 in diameter and .582-.588 in length. the sprue was filled with a nice puddle sitting on top. ive ice water quenched them from the mold and they are pretty hard to me but I have not tested them for brinell hardness as I don't have a hardness tester yet. I was able to cut one up with a pair of side cutters without a massive amount of effort though. I showed them to a buddy of mine that has been casting for years and he said that they look just about as good as anything he's been able to cast and said that the base was exactly the way it should be. as far as stick on or clip on I don't know, they were already processed and in ingot form when I bought them and the seller didn't state either or.

[Mk42gunner]

If they are the correct dimensions, both length and width, I would suspect your alloy.

Your boolits look awfully bright and shiny to just be wheel weights to me. Maybe the ebay seller messed up and sent you tin? I am not sure of the difference in specific gravity.

Robert

[Bird]

Looks like you have some form of solder. Good score. If you know the melting point of your mix, that would give a clue. Bullets look real good. Get some clip on wheelweights and add some of your mix until you get the weight you want.

[Bird]

p.s. if they were pure tin, the weight would be around 80grains. The density of tin is about 64% of pure lead.

[OnHoPr]

I have mic'ed the rounds and they are all .356-.358 in diameter and .582-.588 in length.

Interesting case, no pun intended. On the dia of tumble lube boolits is that what the dia should be for a .356 boolit, seems small to me, maybe. IIRC they should be a bit bigger possibly. The length measuring off sprue and to one side of it should be the same. The .582 on one side and .588 on the other side maybe be just the hot boolits in the mold when you are opening it with a should be no problem natural twisting motion of the wrist or whatever. But, they should be the same on all of the same side boolits on the same side of the mold. As noted on part line of the second boolit from the right on the second pic at the top of the boolit. I was going to ask about the tare on the scale, but I see you have covered that. Well, if they are on the stick on WW side that would mean closer to pure Pb. There may be a larger amount of Sn in the mix. How long did it take for the puddles to cool before cutting the sprues? I really don't see a blue tint to them meaning the lead was real hot, instead of frosted with clip on WWs if it was real hot. Wonder if you had barely a warm/hot mold and a alloy that was just below the two points I just mentioned or just hot enough not to wrinkle and the mold is not taking as much alloy as it can. But, still 20 gr would be a lot in that circumstance. Hey, you could always load them at 105 gr data and get a couple of hundred fps out of the load. Maybe one of the golden boolit masters can shed a little light on the issue later. If it has a bit more than thought of Sn in it the alloy/pot would not need to be as hot. Henceforth, cooler full filling alloy cooler mold, maybe smaller boolit.

[bigolsmokebomb]

If they are the correct dimensions, both length and width, I would suspect your alloy.

Your boolits look awfully bright and shiny to just be wheel weights to me. Maybe the ebay seller messed up and sent you tin? I am not sure of the difference in specific gravity.

Robert
that's a definite possibility, ive actually ordered some more lead from a different seller on ebay to test that. I will clarify that the pictures were taken right after casting within 5 minutes of pulling them out of the ice bath so it could be that as well. is there an easier way to empty a bottom pour melt pot than melting the lead and pouring it out of the bottom?

[Bird]

I just did a quick calc. Seems you may have 50-50 bar solder.That would give you a bullet weight close to 100 grains

[bigolsmokebomb]

Interesting case, no pun intended. On the dia of tumble lube boolits is that what the dia should be for a .356 boolit, seems small to me, maybe. IIRC they should be a bit bigger possibly. The length measuring off sprue and to one side of it should be the same. The .582 on one side and .588 on the other side maybe be just the hot boolits in the mold when you are opening it with a should be no problem natural twisting motion of the wrist or whatever. But, they should be the same on all of the same side boolits on the same side of the mold. As noted on part line of the second boolit from the right on the second pic at the top of the boolit. I was going to ask about the tare on the scale, but I see you have covered that. Well, if they are on the stick on WW side that would mean closer to pure Pb. There may be a larger amount of Sn in the mix. How long did it take for the puddles to cool before cutting the sprues? I really don't see a blue tint to them meaning the lead was real hot, instead of frosted with clip on WWs if it was real hot. Wonder if you had barely a warm/hot mold and a alloy that was just below the two points I just mentioned or just hot enough not to wrinkle and the mold is not taking as much alloy as it can. But, still 20 gr would be a lot in that circumstance. Hey, you could always load them at 105 gr data and get a couple of hundred fps out of the load. Maybe one of the golden boolit masters can shed a little light on the issue later. If it has a bit more than thought of Sn in it the alloy/pot would not need to be as hot. Henceforth, cooler full filling alloy cooler mold, maybe smaller boolit.

I was casting in rapid succession so those particular bullets I wouldn't know where exactly when those dropped in the time I spent casting. I do know that I would have to take a few mins break every so often as it would take longer and longer for the sprew to solidify so I could drop the bullets. I do know that most of them took 10-15 seconds for the sprew to solidify and break clean. the first time I sat down to cast I did crack the sprew plate too soon for most of the bullets and it would smear lead across the mold but I only remember seeing that happen twice on the last casting session.

[bigolsmokebomb]

I just did a quick calc. Seems you may have 50-50 bar solder.
that would be a helluva score if that's the case. I bought 30lbs of it for 39 bucks on ebay

[Bird]

You Did well. Whats the sellers name?

[bigolsmokebomb]

You Did well. Whats the sellers name?
it was arrowmaker61 on ebay. don't know how often he puts up lead for sale as he only had 2 lots up for sale when I got mine.

[CastingFool]

Can you scratch the ingots with your thumb nail? Both stick on ww's and clipped on ww's can be scratched. I wouldn't think 50/50 bar solder could be scratched, due to the tin.

[bigolsmokebomb]

Can you scratch the ingots with your thumb nail? Both stick on ww's and clipped on ww's can be scratched. I wouldn't think 50/50 bar solder could be scratched, due to the tin.
ill have to do that test when I get home. so far from all of the input of everyone here im pretty sure that I ended up with 50/50 bar solder or something pretty close. I do have some new clip on wheel weight lead on the way so hopefully ill be able to clear out my pot and try the new lead to confirm my hypothesis.

[Mohawk Daddy]

I have cast a few examples of that same bullet in pure pewter just for fun and to get a few small pills of pewter to sweeten small batches of melt. Mine came out at 81 grains, but that's going to be mostly tin. Yours seem to be somewhere in the middle between pure lead and pure tin.

[bigolsmokebomb]

did the scratch test and it looks like ive got something pretty close to 50/50 bar solder. had to use a screwdriver to even put a scratch in it. all i could manage to do with my thumb is scrape off a little bit of the surface oxidation. the first pic is of the bar before scratching at it and the second is after. all i managed was a streak that looks less dirty. i tried it on half a dozen bars i have and theyre all the same

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[OS OK]

There's plenty of fellas right here on the forum that sell Pb. Why don't you try to deal primarily with your friends and fellow enthusiast here first instead of fleabay?

That thus far 'lucky deal' could have just as easily gone in the other direction.

[bigolsmokebomb]

There's plenty of fellas right here on the forum that sell Pb. Why don't you try to deal primarily with your friends and fellow enthusiast here first instead of fleabay?

That thus far 'lucky deal' could have just as easily gone in the other direction.

As i was just getting into casting i didnt know of the resources of this forum. I was just trying to get some cheap lead to see if casting was something i really wanted to invest a lot of time and money into. Now that i know i plan on casting quite a bit i can dive into the deeper levels instead of just scratching the surface.

[OS OK]

Well you did come up with some nice sweetener there...it's nice to win the flip of the coin now and again. The fellas around here will do backflips to help another handloader...stick around.

Oh...how come you don't post where you are from under your avatar, people who live in your neck of the woods sometimes take special interest in their neighbors, meeting new friends etc...helping and whatnot.

[bigolsmokebomb]

Well you did come up with some nice sweetener there...it's nice to win the flip of the coin now and again. The fellas around here will do backflips to help another handloader...stick around.

Oh...how come you don't post where you are from under your avatar, people who live in your neck of the woods sometimes take special interest in their neighbors, meeting new friends etc...helping and whatnot.

Honestly it just slipped my mind. Ive updated it now. Its nice coming out on top every once in a while but now ive got to buy more lead to sweeten. Ill definately stick around as im just getting started casting and im pretty sure ill have something pop up ill need help with and since ive been reloading for quite a few years i can definately lend my knowledge in that dept for everyone else.

[OS OK]

Good luck with the casting, post lots of pic's of the newborns, everybody loves pic's around here.

Welcome and SeeYa...charlie

[Half Dog]

I had the same issue of inconsistent weights. I stirred the pot better and got better results.

[robg]

Add some lead until you get the weight you want ,you're one lucky guy.

[runfiverun]

the gold color of the ingots gives the high tin content away.

[Mk42gunner]

Since you have thirty pounds of something that seems pretty close to 50/50 solder, you now have enough tin to sweeten a few hundred pounds of most any lead alloy that doesn't cast nicely.

It might be worthwhile to take a sample to a scrapyard to get it shot with an xrf gun to see what it really is.

Robert

[bigolsmokebomb]

Since you have thirty pounds of something that seems pretty close to 50/50 solder, you now have enough tin to sweeten a few hundred pounds of most any lead alloy that doesn't cast nicely.

It might be worthwhile to take a sample to a scrapyard to get it shot with an xrf gun to see what it really is.

Robert

I may have to do that. Im pretty sure theres a few scrap places in my area.