C.o.a.l.

[rancher1913]

how much shorter than the factory COAL can you go before you have problems in a 9mm.

always loaded wheel guns and they are fairly forgiving when it comes to COAL, if the wheel spins it will shoot but the 9mm not so much. got my loads down pat and using mihec's groupbuy smooth sided powder coated boolit, they work beautifully but for what ever reason my press sometimes leaves one about a hundred's over and the gun will not slide all the way home, and they won't fire. the book shows the COAL should be 1.169 and those function just fine but every so often I get one that is 1.18 and they cause the problem.

can I set my die at say 1.159 and not have issues in an automatic, or will the head-space cause me problems. not looking for super accuracy right now.

have not done a chamber cast but the 1.18 coal boolit sticks in the barrel and the 1.169 does not.

[runfiverun]

well.
if you shorten the coal on a 9mm you lower the powder amount to back it up.
I know in the past Ruger couldn't always get 9mm proof ammo so they would just take factory ammo and shorten it something like .030.
that would take the round from it's normal 35-k up to proof test load status.

but your a reloader so I know your gonna find the oal that makes your gun work.
then your gonna back your load down a whole bunch and work your way back up till your happy with the 100% function of the pistol.
and then search around a little bit more for accuracy.

[rancher1913]

if my bullet seater would do the perfect coal, the rounds function great, but I have yet to figure why every once in a while it throws one just a hair over and they stop the fun. I don't think moving the boolit back a hundreds of an inch should do much to the powder charge, it is still loose and there is space, just don't know about moving the boolit back from the barrel, if that would mean the boolit has to jump into the rifling verses slide into. do you suppose the factory crimp die could be the culprit, suppose I could mic every round and discard the few bad ones but thats a lot of extra work.

[dragon813gt]

Moving the bullet back one hundredth can spike pressure if you're loading at max. Just look at how close the min/max spans are w/ most powders. It's not a very forgiving round.

I would start gauging every round if you're having issues every so often. Something is causing an issue so it's better to find it before you load the gun.

[rancher1913]

yes I am working on finding the issue and no I am not at max powder, about a little below midway on the min max range. just not used to such a finicky round and was hoping some other 9mm shooters had encountered the same problem.

[B. Lumpkin]

Seat deeper, and work back up or have the barrel throated...or sort your bullets with a comparator, lol.

[FISH4BUGS]

I shoot 9mm in my subguns so it really isn't much of an issue. The chambers are quite generous.
When I shoot them in the pistol, I find that case length is occasionally an issue. Since the 9mm headspaces on the case mouth, the bullet shape and overall length along with the case length makes a difference. A fat bullet stands a greater chance of not allowing the bolt to slide home all the way if it is combined with a long case. Even a few thousandths makes a difference.
I have found what I THINK is the perfect bullet for the 9mm. It is an H&G #331.
Of course, your mileage may vary a LOT!

[fredj338]

YOu are NOT reading COAL correctly. The 1.169" is MAX. COAL is ALWAYS bullet & barrels specific. So there really is no such thing as a correct COAL. Each bullet, each barrel has to be sorted out. Then in a semi, make sure they feed all the way down the mag. Also COAL has nothing to do with headspace. That is a function of the case fit to the chamber.
COAL is probably the single most misunderstood detail or reloading. FWIW seating deeper is rarely an issue with any powder charge below midrange. At max powder charges, everything matters, but look at 0.010" on you calipers, about a thick sheet of paper worth. It isn't moving the pressure needle much, not even at max.

[rancher1913]

thank you fredj338, that was my line of thinking but just was not shure.

and yes fish4bugs I have had the "fat" boolits but that 9mm groupbuy mold from mehic really makes sweet little pills and now that I have a crimp die (thanks dsh1106) they are looking really good and shoot really good, it was just that dang long one ever so often that played havac.

[runfiverun]

paper is more like .0025
I don't know if the FCD pushes down on a boolit or not, but I'd imagine it squishes different brass different amounts.

[leeggen]

You need to find why you get the long one. When you seat a boolit they should all be very close in oal. Make sure you don't have some trash in the seating die. Maybe you just get a little quick on the loader arm and don't give it a complete swing, maybe you stop that few thousands short leaving the boolit set out alittle. Start checking each round as you do it until you find one that is extra long, then think and check as to why. You may be getting a boolit that is alittle large in diameter and is hitting the end of the chamber instead of the case hitting the end of the chamber. If I were you I would listen to Dragon and Run they are pretty sharp on loading. JMO
CD

[ironhead7544]

Different brass may load to different COAL. I load to 1.160 as max or what the factory recommends and do not have any problems. YMMV.

Try loading 50 or so and see what they come out to. If some are too long, then shorten the COAL enough to fix it. Should start over with the start charge.

Are you using a progressive press?

[rancher1913]

the 1.160 was what I was wanting to move back to from the 1.169. right now I'm loading on the single press, once I get all the bugs figured out I plan to move to the progressive. the short stroke was what I had thought might be causing it but still get one a little long every once in a while, maybe the meplat on some are letting it go into the die a little further. last night I did about 25 and still had 1 that was a little long and dealing with 0.01 is hard to see with my eyesight, the calipers and the gun can see it but I can't see where its coming from--yet. thanks for all the input.

[farmerjim]

The Lee FCD will sometimes pull the boolit up if the carbide ring squeezes the case back down.

[rancher1913]

that might just be it farmerjim because I have checked and double checked everything else, I will check the next on that feels funny in the fcd.

[country gent]

Varying case neck tension can also cause slight deviations in seating depth, since heavier tensions take more "play" and spring out of the press more than lighter. This normally isnt alot though. Places to look for the changes are press stroke, linkage and shell holders play in the ram. You dont say what press your using so also if its one of the "bushing" presses check to be sure the bushing is locked up tight also. In the dies makes sure the seater stem is locked tight to the die and the die tight to the press. Fit of the bullet to seater stem can have an effect here also. DOes the bullet show and seating marks around the nose? This is a sighn of poor fit and or excessive tension. Look for a ring around nose or slightly reformed nose shape. If your bottoming the shell holder to the die when at top of stroke watch for sirt or build up on shellhoder die face also. You can easily make a form fitted seating stem several ways, 1) coat a bullet with wax several coats here, then a drop of jb weld epoxy and clamp bullet into stem allow to cure. Clean up excess and deburr edges. This will be a very close fit when done. I sometimes hand drill ( turning the drill bit by hand only) a .125 hole in the center thru the exoxy so the seater seats on the actual radious/ogive. 2) This method sacrifices a couple bullets but also makes a very precise fitting stem. Coat a bullet with lapping compound start with valve grinding compound and work bullet nose in stem rotatoing back and forth rotating occasionally until you see full clean up of the surface. then a second bullet with simichrome or Flitz metal polish and repeat to polish out the coarse lines to a nice finish. Break edge burrs with a brass ball or larger caliber round nose bullet and simichrome / flitz.

[gwpercle]

I solved this problem , .357 sized boolits, first by adjusting the seating depth , that helped but still not 100% .
So next I added more crimp until we got 100 % function. It was a matter of both factors not just OAL.

[mdi]

Odd. A seating die is a mechanical, solid tool, nothing moving around inside and once set, unless the stem turns, nothing should change. Something, some method, is allowing the bullet to stick up .020". Perhaps the press handle is not operated the same every time. Brass shouldn't make any difference as the OAL is measured from the casr head to the tip of the bullet. I'd clean the die, make sure nothing is flexing, and try again. Try searing a bunch of bullets and measuring the OAL before a crimp is applied. And/or separating the seating and crimping steps. (And IMHO, toss the Lee FCD)...

[runfiverun]

not a fan of the FCD either.
but if it is squishing things skinnier it has to be making it longer.
it's like pulling the neck over the expander ball and having it tug the shoulder/neck area back out again.

a simple fix of lubing the inside of the case or polishing out the size die repair.
but which one do you choose?

[TXGunNut]

All I've ever used is a good taper crimp die for auto pistols, I think you're zeroing in on the problem. Could the FCD be swaging the boolit? I know lots of folks sing the praises of the FCD but I have never seen the use for it.
As far as OAL let the boolit profile and the chamber determine the number that works for you. The number in a book was not determined using your boolit or gun.

[kmw1954]

Odd. A seating die is a mechanical, solid tool, nothing moving around inside and once set, unless the stem turns, nothing should change. Something, some method, is allowing the bullet to stick up .020". ...

I just started loading 9mm recently and ran into this same issue accept with Berry's plated RN bullets. Now and again I would get one that was 0.010 long. Using Lee 3 die set. I found this after starting to work up loads and got to one that was performing well. While working up I was loading one at a time, checking each primer, weighing each charge and measuring each bullet. It was when I started a small run of 50 that I'd found 6 long ones.

After checking everything on the press and die the only thing I came up with is that there must be a slight difference or defect in the bullet that the nose of the bullet must be slightly smaller allowing it to enter deeper into the seating stem which was leaving them long.

I was seating to 1.155" and the long were 1.165. 1.165 is too long for my gun and causes feed issues.

But I agree that the die is static once set so unless something in moving everything should come out the same. Haven't done it yet but I am going to blue up some bullets to see if it's seating on the top of the bullet in the die or on the side of the bullet in the die.

[buckshotshoey]

I was thinking the same thing kmw1954. Wrong seater plug for bullet nose profile? Maybe a small difference in nose profile of bullet is going deeper into the seater plug. Pull you plug and check several samples for proper fit. Use your dial indicator and measure plug and bullet together? Might reveal something.

Are there any odd marks on the bullet nose that were not there before seating?
The op also mentioned using a powder coated bullet. Could this be the problem?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I like Lee dies and mostly what I load with are Lee dies...Now with that said, Lee seating dies are kinda sloppy, IMHO. They seem OK for pistol, but with Lee's inconsistent attention to detail and finishing[cleaning up machining lines] I have seen one Lee seater nose plug that wasn't very smooth, it 'could' grab a boolit nose and seat it a bit crooked ...The nose plug's sloppy fit in the die adds to this problem. I'd be curious of the runout on those rounds with longer COAL, to see if they have more runout than the others.

The short inexpensive answer is to polish/lube the nose plug on your Lee seater die.

The expensive answer to to replace the Lee seater die with another brand. I've replaced all the Rifle ammo seater dies in my Lee sets, with Bonanza/Forster BR seater dies.

[mdi]

Another thought, and it happened to me in '87, my OAL was varying when measured with calipers from the case head to the bullet nose. Turns out my primer seating was kinda sloppy and occasionally a primer was a few thousandths high (revolver loads with a Lee Loader)....