H&G #68 again...how much exposed shoulder?

[AbitNutz]

I have found that my pistol is very sensitive to either OAL or how much shoulder is showing above the case mouth. I'm not sure which is the actual cause of the jams, too short or not enough shoulder, likely both.

My .45 will eat anything, usually. When I started loading my latest batch of H&G #68 SWC HP BB Grooveless, it started to jam. The cartridge would load part way into the chamber and get stuck. It would get really stuck too. I noticed that there was less shoulder showing than normal. It turns out the seating die was misadjusted. I dialed it back some and all was well.

Here's my question: Does anyone have a actual decimal number of how much shoulder they load to? I mean if the case is .898 then the distance from the bottom of the case to the top of the shoulder is .930? Or?

I use that dimension because the nose length varies on all #68 clone molds so "overall cartridge length" is not a good number. Also, the case length doesn't matter. Which is good because that's all over the place too.

I know everyone has an colloquial measurement for how much shoulder there should be, like: A thumbnail or just a bit or 1/32. Unfortunately, measuring how much shoulder shows above the case mouth is really hard to measure, the bottom of the case to the top of the shoulder is the best measurement for me.

There seems to be a really fine line in my gun between being too long for the magazine and being too short to function.

Maybe I should seat it till it won't go in the magazine and then back off a little?

[CPL Lou]

I seat mine until there is just a thumbnail thickness of the shoulder is sticking out.
Not a precise measurement, but it works with ALL 5 of my .45's.
Also, make sure your taper crimp is somewhat tight, but not excessively so.
PS: I have thick thumbnails.

CPL Lou

[bosterr]

I use Accurate Molds #45-200H, Tom's version of the H&G. In my case, it's .930 from the top of the shoulder to the bottom of the case. The 1.250 OAL measurement which seems to be the standard with this design is too long for either of my Kimbers to eject a loaded round. Both will feed and fire at the 1.250 just fine. But with the ejectors in these guns, the OAL needs to be 1.235 to eject properly. BTW, I size to .4520 for a barrel that slugs at .451.

[DougGuy]

Instead of trying to figure out a workaround for a tight throat, I think you would be better off to directly address the root cause of the problem. There really is no effective workaround short of sizing boolits small enough to fit in what little throat the manufacturers are putting in barrels these days.

Here is what fixes the problem:

The barrel on the left used to have your problem. The same barrel on the right, after throating, eats anything that will cycle through the mag.

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Cylinder%20Services/1f06c85f-3c7d-434b-9061-ca061af26de9_zps0aqi32iq.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Cylinder%20Services/1f06c85f-3c7d-434b-9061-ca061af26de9_zps0aqi32iq.jpg.html)

[Greg S]

OP, have you ever thought of pulling the barrel out of the pistol and doing the plunk test to set your seaing die and recording the results for each manufacturer or mold? Everyones throat is alittle different.

[DerekP Houston]

PM sent doug.

[AbitNutz]

OP, have you ever thought of pulling the barrel out of the pistol and doing the plunk test to set your seaing die and recording the results for each manufacturer or mold? Everyones throat is alittle different.

So seat it out till it fails the plunk test, then back off? That sounds right. Then see if it will go in the magazine. It's a fully ramped c/p Kart barrel. The measurement that worked was about .930. I have seen folks say to seat it out as far as .935. The max overall length listed for the 45 acp...1.275, which I think is way to much. I doubt it would go into the magazine at all.

[reddog81]

What do you mean by "it would load part way into the chamber and get stuck"? Is the bullet hitting the rifling or is the case getting hung up in the chamber? When I hear the words part way into the chamber that sounds like it's not making it very far into the chamber...

Sometimes the tolerances on match grade barrels can be so tight as to cause problems that wouldn't exist in regular barrels.

What are you sizing the bullets to?

[AbitNutz]

It's not getting to the rifling. The cartridge goes up the ramp and the nose or something stops it dead. The slide stops with the case at the angle of the ramp...and it really gets stuck like that. There's no pushing it in or dropping the slide on it. That's only if I seat the bullet deeper in the case, showing only a thumbnail's worth of shoulder.

If I seat it out to where the distance from bottom of the cartridge to the top of the shoulder is about .930, it seems to work. I haven't run too many rounds through it to confirm it but the couple of magazines I have run, did work. It shows quite a bit of shoulder but I think it needs even more. I'm just concerned I'll run out of room in the magazine.

Bullets are sized .451..I thought about going .452 but was concerned about case bulge.

[DougGuy]

It's not getting to the rifling. The cartridge goes up the ramp and the nose or something stops it dead. The slide stops with the case at the angle of the ramp.

Bullets are sized .451..I thought about going .452 but was concerned about case bulge.

Have you checked extractor tension? This will get even the best of 'em at times. Pull the slide off, you could use an emply case for this but I like to use a live round because it is heavier, place the round against the breech face and slide it up the breech face and under the extractor hook same as it would be in live cycling of the slide. It should have minimal resistance, just enough that when you wiggle the slide vigorously, it should stay under the extractor hook and not fall out. If it doesn't want to slide under the hook, that could cause a stoppage.

The hook should be radiused on the bottom, and behind the lower front edge. It should also not touch the extractor bevel made into the case when it goes into battery.

Sizing to .451" you should not need throating to increase the diameter of the freebore, but it may be that there isn't a sufficient length of freebore and the boolit is crammed right into the leade in to the rifling when the gun goes into battery. Either one will cause a round not to plunk and it's been my experience so far that 90% of .45 ACP barrels mass produced in the last 10-20 years don't have enough freebore and the freebore is less than .452" in diameter. It is nowdays a RARE occasion when a factory made 1911 will plunk a round assembled with the H&G 68 sized to .452" and seated out to the COA called for in loading data.

[W.R.Buchanan]

The problem here is cartridge OAL. What is happening is that the front edge of the nose, the shoulder of the bullet, and the side of the case in full contact against the feed ramp,,, are all coming into contact at the exact same time. 3 points of contact.

I experienced this with these bullets in my G21SF. I had OAL at 1.275. I stopped using that bullet in my Glock as seating it further out caused magazine problems and seating it in further caused crimping problems. Obviously the fix is to change OAL until you don't get 3 points of contact. The gun normally functions with 2 points of contact, IE some place on the bullet and the side of the case against the feed ramp. When you get three, it wedges the round in the chamber. Even so mine would feed it sometimes,,, just not all the time.

Adjust your OAL until it feeds reliably, but make sure you get a good crimp at .470 on the case mouth.

Here's pics to show it.

Randy

[runfiverun]

try shortening it.
I run my swc's flush with the case mouth.
I tried running them with the exposed lead and it stops them from chambering by falsely head spacing on that exposed lead.
the shorter oal will also remove one of the points of contact in the 3 way jam.

[376Steyr]

What magazine are you using? Assuming its a 1911, there are all sorts of magazines out there with different ideas of how the feed lips should work. Here's one manufacturer that offers no less than three options: http://www.checkmatemagazines.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=314&Itemid=367
If a real H&G 68, as opposed to a bad clone, won't feed in a modern 1911 with just a sliver of shoulder showing, I'd suspect the magazine first.

[Alstep]

When I first started loading for the .45, I had all kinds of problems; jams, stove pipes, failure to feed, you name it. Tried all kinds of bullets. Finally settled on the old 68 design. My two favorite molds are the RCBS 45-201KT and Accurate 453-200H. Size to .4515 through a Lee sizer, 45-45-10 lube, seat to 1.245 OA & .930 to bullet shoulder. Taper crimp down to .467. Haven't had a single malfunction in any of my 1911's and thousands of rounds downrange. Charge is 4.0 Bullseye. The separate taper crimp is a critical issue. Works in all my magazines too, GI to Wilson. Took me a whole season to work the bugs out, and this works for me. Give it a try & good luck.

[Greg S]

Give me alittle background on the pistol in quesion. Is it a factory gun? New barrel?

[wv109323]

I don't think your problem is due to the amount of exposed shoulder or OAL. That dimension probably has a tolerance of + or - .020".
Make you up some dummy rounds without powder or primer. Don't cycle live ammo through the gun for troubleshooting.
There are several things that have to happen at this point in the cycling of the slide to feed the round. I assumtion is that the jam is occuring long before the round is aligned with the chamber.
1.) The nose of the bullet must make the transition from the feed ramp to the barrel throating smoothly. With the slide off put just the barrel on the frame and insert the slide lock. Make sure when the barrel is against or setting on the frame that the barrel does not overhang the feed ramp. There should be 1/32" of frame exposed between end of feed ramp and the barrel throating.
Next make sure that the barrel is setting completely down on the frame. There can be crude building up between the barrel and frame. Also if the transition is not smooth the edge of the barrel throating can shave a little lead off the bullet and lead builds up in this area and raises the barrel off the frame. Or I have a frame that will not allow the barrel to set all the way down on the frame. There was a gap at 6 o'clock between barrel and frame. I took material off the barrel at the 4 and 8 o'clock position to allow the barrel to set all the way down.
2.) The rim of the case must fit into the breechface. I had a friend with a SA pistol. There was a sharp corner at the bottom of the breechface. As the rim of the case started up the breechface the brass would dig in to the sharp corner and stop the slide from going forward. The breech face must also be wide enough. Find the dimension and check that dimension. Also your brass may have larger than normal rim diameters. This can happen with multiple firings of the cases or just made too large.
3.) As the slide travels forward the rim of the case must slide under the notch of the extractor.
a.The tension of the extractor can be so great that this is not happening. Find the check for the extraction tension on the web. Also as already mention a small radius on the bottom of the extractor groove can make this transition smoother. A sharp corner can cause your problem. The forward nose of the extractor may be hitting the front forward part of the extraction groove of the shell casing. (Extractor too long) Also the extractor may be "clocking". This is when the extractor can rotate in the slide. The extractor rotation is controlled by the fit of the firing pin stop and the groove in the extractor at the rear. If the extractor is rotating, then extractor tension changes and the case sliding under it is rougher. Also extractor hook can be too short to allow the case to slide up.
4.) The magazine lips must release the rim of the case at the right time and position of slide travel. The magazine spring must be strong enough to hold and even push up on the rear of the case as it is being feed. Also the magazine spring and magazine follower must not allow the nose of the bullet to "dive" down. The nose direction of the round is controlled by the angle of the magazine lips and upward force of the follower.
5.) The plunk test has been covered.
6.) more obvious is the bullet/case hitting a sharp edge of the barrel throating or barrel hood.Pictures already shown of modified barrel throating.
7.) Recoil spring weight may come into effect if slide is being slowed before full travel of the slide. A check for this is: Does the slide lock back on the last round?
With the abundance of manufacturers and all trying to make a better mouse trap anything might happen. I would start with a standard recoil spring and use a magazine known to work in another 1911. Taper crimp to .469/.470 and use .452 lead bullets.
Holler back if you don't get it fixed. A picture of the jam might help

[jsizemore]

I shoot a Kart barrel. I use an H&G 68 PB sized to .4518. From case base to loaded shoulder is .948 and case mouth crimped to .466. Feeds 100% of the time and extracts an unfired case with no trouble.

[AbitNutz]

The problem here is cartridge OAL. What is happening is that the front edge of the nose, the shoulder of the bullet, and the side of the case in full contact against the feed ramp,,, are all coming into contact at the exact same time. 3 points of contact.

I experienced this with these bullets in my G21SF. I had OAL at 1.275. I stopped using that bullet in my Glock as seating it further out caused magazine problems and seating it in further caused crimping problems. Obviously the fix is to change OAL until you don't get 3 points of contact. The gun normally functions with 2 points of contact, IE some place on the bullet and the side of the case against the feed ramp. When you get three, it wedges the round in the chamber. Even so mine would feed it sometimes,,, just not all the time.

Adjust your OAL until it feeds reliably, but make sure you get a good crimp at .470 on the case mouth.

Here's pics to show it.

Randy

I think you hit the nail right on the head. What you said and what you show is exactly what is happening. My only concern is that when I seat it out enough to feed, there is quite a lot of shoulder showing. The length from the bottom of the case to the top of the shoulder is upwards of .950. What happens then is that when I drop the bullet in the barrel, the base it isn't flush with the barrel hood. However, when the slide comes forward it fully chambers the round and it shoots and shoots well.

If after the slide chambers the round I remove the cartridge, you can see where the rifling has contacted the lead shoulder. However, it is not moving the bullet back in the case at all and it isn't any kind of giant gouge. It is a small mark where one of the lands had contacted the rim. The gun shoots as normal like this and shows no sign of high pressure.

I do think that "throating" the barrel as shown would absolutely relieve this but it doesn't seem to mind what is going on now. I think I'll adjust the seating depth out until I find out exactly where the problem disappears. Failing that, I may have the barrel throated.

[AbitNutz]

Instead of trying to figure out a workaround for a tight throat, I think you would be better off to directly address the root cause of the problem. There really is no effective workaround short of sizing boolits small enough to fit in what little throat the manufacturers are putting in barrels these days.

Here is what fixes the problem:

The barrel on the left used to have your problem. The same barrel on the right, after throating, eats anything that will cycle through the mag.

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Cylinder%20Services/1f06c85f-3c7d-434b-9061-ca061af26de9_zps0aqi32iq.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Cylinder%20Services/1f06c85f-3c7d-434b-9061-ca061af26de9_zps0aqi32iq.jpg.html)


I think I'm going to look at getting the throat reamed to get some freebore. The picture shows exactly what my barrel looks like. How much should be reamed? Is there a standard amount? Or just do it till the cartridge plops flush fit with the barrel hood?

[DougGuy]

I shoot for .150" to .200" freebore, it runs on a taper so the .4525" portion is not the full amount of freebore you see when you look in there, it's probably closer to .160" or thereabouts. I experimented with longer freebore and didn't have any negative effects, some of the Glock guys are seating .45 out really long and I did a few Lone Wolf barrels with close to .330" and they shot great.

My .45 throating reamer is a custom design that I had PT&G make for me with a 2 degree taper so as the boolit pulls crimp and aligns with the bore it is steadied and held center by the taper and it hits the rifling squared and centered in the bore which is a LOT more accurate than a bore where the rifling runs right up to the ogive of the boolit, the boolit when it starts movement is more or less crammed into the leade in and wherever it gets engraved first, is how it will remain, and in this early part of the rifling there is nothing to hold the boolit centered except for how snug the tapered case is resting in the chamber.

The longer freebore works great. Sometimes a slight loss of velocity can be attributed to the fact that there is less resistance to initial boolit movement and less resistance will nearly always translate to lower pressure, and this is where the loss can be attributed. We aren't talking much, 35 to 50fps at the most, which can be compensated for with an adjustment to the powder charge.

There is merit to longer freebore than just enough to plunk loaded rounds, so I don't think it's a set rule anywhere that says x.xx" of freebore is the best all around or that x.xx" amount of freebore is detrimental to accuracy, etc.. All my 1911s have close to .300" of total freebore and they shoot lights out. I don't generally put that much in a customer's barrel unless they ask for it. You get way less leading, *IF* any at all, and PC'd boolits have a much more gentle transition from case mouth to rifling.

Send a PM for details.

[AbitNutz]

I'm going to try this myself. I ordered a PT&G Uni-throat reamer kit with the handle in 45 acp with spiral flutes and removal pilot. No, not cheap but it's hobby and I have a barrel or two I can practice on and some good cutting oil.

Any advice? Besides go slow and check often...etc

[DougGuy]

I would advise you look at the photos in the email I sent, proper throating for a .45 ACP barrel might not be done with that reamer. I would have to have one in hand to see exactly how it is made.

The first order I made with PT&G for a carbide throating reamer was a waste of time. They sent a reamer with tapered flutes that cut basically a "wine bottle" type throat. After wating for months for one, this is what they sent. I was PISSED to say the least. I ended up packing up 3 barrels that I had throated so they could see what a PROPERLY CUT THROAT was all about, sample dummy ammo, a photo with dimensions from a Manson reamer with the custom changes I wanted, a PacNor barrel blank I had sawed off JUST to send to them and tell them unless they made a reamer that matched my specs and would then throat the barrel blank and plunk the dummies I sent, that they were wasting both our time.

This was months and months in the going back and forth and finally almost a year after I started this order, I was sent a reamer that I could use for Glock, Poly Springfield, S&W salt bath hardened barrels and it is the ONLY thing that will even begin to touch these barrels. Conventional HSS tooling is destroyed in the first 1/4 turn. Cost of the PT&G reamer and piliots was a good 3x what the Manson HSS reamers cost, and by the time I got done with the BS and got the right reamer in hand, close to 4x what a conventional throating reamer cost.

The only recourse I had to recover the cost of this tooling is put a measly $10 surcharge on throating hardened barrels, at this rate I will be in my 90s before this reamer is even paid for. It is likely that the reamer will wear too small to do an effective job before it is paid for. There is NO WAY to win this battle costwise. If I scheduled pricing around the cost of the tooling, it would be cheaper to just tell folks to buy a Lone Wolf or KKM barrel and then send that one for throating, When this reamer wears out, I won't be replacing it. It was a losing proposition moneywise. Oh well.. Live and learn.

As far as the job it does on conventional barrels? Omg.. Nothing else comes close. Prettiest throats I have ever seen.. Bubba can't go here.. :bigsmyl2:

[AbitNutz]

You convinced me...PM'd and barrel on its way. I shoot this gun way too much to screw it up myself. Thanks so much for jumping in and straightening me out...I look forward more than I can say to getting this right. I switched completely over to this bullet design and I need this gun to shoot it. All my other 45's don't have a problem and love this bullet. This one, since it has NO THROAT AT ALL, doesn't like the bullet seated where it needs to be.

I have since read the Kart's Exact fit barrels, which this one is, needs to be throated. Well, I guess I should have read the fine print. Ok, it wasn't that fine and is pretty much common knowledge...live and learn.

[Strtspdlx]

I'm at .930 from case head to top of shoulder. I have found more frequently then not variance in crimp has caused severe feed issues. Mainly because the mouth catches the ramp and allows the slide to push the head of the case back "under" the ramp, meaning in that direction. And it causes something like what you're seeing. Or Atleast in my pistol it has.

[gpidaho]

I would highly recommend Doug for the throating job. He throated my old Ruger DC97 that HATED cast bullets in general. Now it never misses a beat. Price is very reasonable. Gp

[AbitNutz]

After Doug's in depth description of the problem and his experience on how to fix it...I would be hard pressed to do anything but send it to Doug. There is no way I could do anything close to what he outlined. While it would be fun to try it myself, it makes no sense.

I am looking forward to getting it back and trying it out. He should have it Monday according to the tracking. After I get it back, I'm going to run it up to H&M in Akron and have it finished in Black Nitride.

[AbitNutz]

I'm at .930 from case head to top of shoulder. I have found more frequently then not variance in crimp has caused severe feed issues. Mainly because the mouth catches the ramp and allows the slide to push the head of the case back "under" the ramp, meaning in that direction. And it causes something like what you're seeing. Or At least in my pistol it has.

.930 I believe is the SAAMI spec for the 45 acp throat. The barrel I have has zero throat. That seems to be a known thing with Kart and many other aftermarket barrels...known to everyone but me.

[Mr Peabody]

I would try a new 15lb recoil spring for $6.98 first, helped my trouble out immensely.

[DougGuy]

His barrel has absolutely zero throat. No freebore at all, rifling runs right up to the end of the chamber. It is a Kart exact fit which requires throating after fitting. No amount of recoil spring can compensate for not having any throat. It will soon be rectified and on it's way back home..

[Texas by God]

RunFiveRun told you all you need to do. No need for throating or 15# springs. Best, Thomas.

[AbitNutz]

RunFiveRun told you all you need to do. No need for throating or 15# springs. Best, Thomas.

That would be great, if it worked. It's too short and won't feed. Having nothing exposed above the case mouth is the same as feeding empty cases...they just jam up really nicely. Also, seating the bullets that far into the case causes other issues. Some cases bulge if I size them to .452. Not to mention the reduction in case capacity at max 45 Super pressure levels does cause excessive pressure.

This pistol shoots a steady diet of 45 Super loads (with another barrel) and has been modified to do so and live with them. I want to seat the bullet as far out as the magazine will allow.

One of many of the changes made to shoot 45 Super loads is to run a 22lb spring, the same as the 10mm.

The permanent and best solution is having the new barrel throated...

[6bg6ga]

I've watched many people shoot 45's and have seen them jam and or have feed problems and have fired the same guns and not experienced any problem. A lot of problems stem from the inability to master the recoil of the 45 in my opinion. ANY decent 1911 should feed a H&G 68 bullet. There is no magical amount of taper that makes them work. The 45acp needs just enough crimp to fit in the barrel and to hold the bullet securely in the case without it moving upon ignition. Excessive crimp contributes to leading and doesn't help the feed problems. Every one of my 1911's will feed H&G 68 bullets without a problem just the way it should be. One thing I do to a cheaper gun say my Colt Officers in stainless was to polish the feed ramp and this factor alone made it feed anything I wished to load into the magazine.

[Strtspdlx]

I've watched many people shoot 45's and have seen them jam and or have feed problems and have fired the same guns and not experienced any problem. A lot of problems stem from the inability to master the recoil of the 45 in my opinion. ANY decent 1911 should feed a H&G 68 bullet. There is no magical amount of taper that makes them work. The 45acp needs just enough crimp to fit in the barrel and to hold the bullet securely in the case without it moving upon ignition. Excessive crimp contributes to leading and doesn't help the feed problems. Every one of my 1911's will feed H&G 68 bullets without a problem just the way it should be. One thing I do to a cheaper gun say my Colt Officers in stainless was to polish the feed ramp and this factor alone made it feed anything I wished to load into the magazine.
Not to side track this thread but I did notice with mixed head stamp brass I do get different amounts of crimp. And shooting said brass I noticed some lead and some don't. I think I'll have to rethink my taper crimp and loading procedures to see if that's my issue. Since you pointed out excessive crimp contributes to leading I will have to find out if that's what's doing it in my scenario.

[AbitNutz]

I've watched many people shoot 45's and have seen them jam and or have feed problems and have fired the same guns and not experienced any problem. A lot of problems stem from the inability to master the recoil of the 45 in my opinion. ANY decent 1911 should feed a H&G 68 bullet. There is no magical amount of taper that makes them work. The 45acp needs just enough crimp to fit in the barrel and to hold the bullet securely in the case without it moving upon ignition. Excessive crimp contributes to leading and doesn't help the feed problems. Every one of my 1911's will feed H&G 68 bullets without a problem just the way it should be. One thing I do to a cheaper gun say my Colt Officers in stainless was to polish the feed ramp and this factor alone made it feed anything I wished to load into the magazine.

Please don't generalize from the specific to the universal. The pistol I speak of can not be lumped into a wider category. Let me point out that this is a double stack longslide that has a full Clark/Para ramped barrel in 45. It shoots full house 45 Super loads. That would be 185gr bullets at 1350fps. The barrel is a new Kart that has no break at the top of the ramp. It will not feed a H&G #68 when fully seated in the case...period. The length of the round will cause it to catch the nose of the bullet on the roof of the chamber, the mouth of the case at the hood and finally, the case body at the hard edge of the ramp, causing 3 points of contact. It will stick the slide solid almost every time. If you run the bullet out it won't do this. Unfortunately, the barrel isn't throated at all, not even to SAAMI spec. It was made this way deliberately so that the owner could throat it as desired...I didn't know that when I fit the barrel, Now I do.

As far as recoil goes, it doesn't quite compare to my 460 Rowland, LAR Grizzly in 45 Win Mag or my Freedom Arms 454 Casull with a 4-3/4" barrel. Recoil? Yeah, I know recoil. This Widebody Longslide with a 6" Magnaported barrel, shooting 45 Super, is no pussycat but it's not a Rottweiler either.

[DougGuy]

Unfortunately, the barrel isn't throated at all, not even to SAAMI spec. It was made this way deliberately so that the owner could throat it as desired...I didn't know that when I fit the barrel, Now I do.

OP didn't do anything wrong per se, he fitted the barrel to the slide and it cycles, but upon measuring the chamber it is only .889" from hood to headspace ledge, and should be .904" ~ .906" so this is one of the issues, the other one is there is NO freebore, the rifling runs right down to the end of the chamber so the throat needs to be cut after the headspace is set. This is proper for the barrel he bought, it is a match barrel that needed fitting of the barrel hood and finish reaming the chamber. Sorry but this simply cannot be remedied with recoil springs or seating deeper or any other sage advice, it can only be remedied with a finishing reamer.

In addition, it is a ramped barrel with fully supported chamber which is also unpolished and unradiused and this provides a very sharp breakover point that sits farther toward the breech face by almost .100" compared to a standard non-ramped, non-supported 1911 barrel so magazine timing will have to be altered for earlier release of the cartridge for proper feeding. This is one of the contributors to the 3 point jams the OP was experiencing.

[W.R.Buchanan]

This throating subject got me interested, and after looking at the barrel of my new Kimber I saw a chamber and throat exactly like what Doug showed in his pictures above.

Pretty sure that the OP's gun will work right after that is done to the barrel.

Randy

[AbitNutz]

I suspect it will...I will have it back in a few days and we'll see.

[AbitNutz]

Ok, update...I got the barrel back some time ago. It only took Doug a day or two to turn it around. He did the full monte on it and I couldn't be happier. This thing now eats anything and makes one ragged hole. The gun is a bit of a handful with the 45 Super loads I shoot. As I said, it's a 6" Longslide, widebody that holds 13 rounds in the magazine. I shoot 180gr Hi-Tek coated H&G #68 SWC HP BB no-grease groove cast at 1350fps...confirmed by LabRadar. The gun is a laser. I now have complete confidence in the functionality, power and accuracy of this pistol. It dropped round after round in a the x-ring at 25 yards and never a hangup, hitch or hesitation.
After this workout I examined the barrel to see how dirty it was. Well, it wasn't. Sure there was powder residue but not one smidge of leading anywhere in the barrel...nothing near the throat or chamber, even at these higher velocities.

The next time I need some of this kind of work done, I'll surely ask Doug if he's available.

Now it's off to H&M Metal Processing where it will be finished in Black Nitride. It's a bit of a brute right now with several finishes so at least it will match.