How can it work?

[Lead melter]

Since I have started cast my own boolits, which is only about 5-6 years, I have used LLA. Only recently have I started using stuff like RCBS rifle, SPG, and my own concoctions.

During those years I have had to pull numerous boolits from cases, and noticed the LLA is missing from the drive bands on the boolits...it's still in the lube grooves, but not on the bands. My only explanation is that it has wiped off on the inside of the case neck. If this is the case, how does the LLA lube any boolit in a barrel if the lube is left in the case neck?

I've had no more nor no less leading with LLA than with any other lube which would indicate that the LLA is working as the others do, or the others are not working as the LLA is not:veryconfu

I've seen some discussions of the working process of lubes, compression/fluid forcing, lube deposition, etc., but can't get the handle on how it would work if it isn't there.

Let the voice of knowledge and experience speak.

[cbrick]

This article by Glen E. Fryxell may go a long way explaining the lube process for you. I've never heard of "needing" lube "on" the driving bands. If you lube in a lubri-sizer die there isn't any lube "on" the driving bands, only in the lube grooves.

Lubricating Cast Bullets (http://www.lasc.us/FryxellLubeCastBullets.htm)

Rick

[Lead melter]

cbrick,

I appreciate the article reference which does help explain some aspects of the process more thoroughly than was my understanding. It does, however bring up a few more questions which will follow.

First, I do not use a lubrisizer. All my lubing is done on Lee push through dies using LLA or other brands/makes of lube which I melt, dip the boolit in and then size. Some advise against this process, but it really is no different than pan sizing. In the "dip" method, there is always a small amount of lube on the driving bands which aids in the sizing process. I'm sure this is not the case solely with the Lee equipment, but also with a lubrisizer of whatever make is used as my very limited experience with a Lyman sizer bears out. The instructions from the Lee sizers specify to use some sort of lube before sizing the boolits in order to avoid galling the sizer. They also claim the LLA coats the driving bands of the boolit to be there, as they say, "where it is needed". This may be just advertising hype, I don't know, but I do know they should know more about it than me.

Secondly, with the small amount of LLA that is contained in the grooves, I can't understand how the compression/inertia dynamics blocking the gas molecules could come into play since the volumn of lube is certainly not equal to the volumn of the lube groove.

Thirdly, if the small amount of LLA left in the lube grooves does in fact lubricate/seal the boolit/bore, does that lead to the belief that the majority of the lubes most used are wasted since just a small amount might be needed, rather than completely filled lube grooves?

I don't seem to grasp the idea in its entirety, nor may I ever, Suffice it to say it does work, but I don't know how.

[Bret4207]

Your next to the last paragraph shows you're on the right path. There are lots of theories on exactly what lube does, how it reacts, when there's not enough or too much. Plain fact is we don't know EXACTLY what is happening- we can only observe and experiment based on what seems to work. Lee lube shouldn't work as well as it does if you follow some theories. Bore rider boolits shouldn't work at all and pointed bore riders should never work. But given enough fooling around some guys get them to work in some guns.

My rambling can be condensed to this- You need to keep an open mind, you need to experiment on your own and you need to think "outside the box" a bit to find what works for you in your guns. Don't fret about the "why?", just write down what does and doesn't work and go from there. There are almost no hard and fast rules in the game and the theories, especially mine, are worth just what you paid for them.

[dromia]

Ditto Bret

Also you need to look a Lees approach in total, for their micro groove boolits, designed for liquid Alox they say to shoot as cast.

So good boolit seal in the throat/rifling doesn't need much "lube".