H&R Buffalo Classic on layaway

[Rick R]

I enjoy taking my wife to gun stores, she is like a curious child in a toy store. She grew up around upland bird hunting but had little to no experience with rifles till we met. And now she has quite the collection.
This weekend we were in our local Cabelas when she came to point on a whole rack of used single shot rifles. The two that specifically caught her eye were a Winchester Highwall in .375 H&H and a Buffalo Classic in .45-70. The Highwall was nearly $1,200 while the H&R was a bit over $450.
After negotiations were over the price of the H&R was $385 and it went in layaway for a week till my play money check (retirement) arrives this month.
We each have a Marlin Guide Gun so I'm hoping the 350gr NOE boolit load I use in the Marlins works in the H&R. And that it likes the 400gr Lee over Unique load she plinks with.
I'm also considering the Williams Foolproof sight with target knobs for use at no more than @400 yards on steel targets and a good lace on recoil pad in the near future.
Does everyone else feel like a kid at Christmas when a new to you rifle is on the horizon?

[John Boy]

Put a 535gr Postell bullet in the Classic with 70gr FFg black powder ... it will shoot to 1000yds with accuracy using a vernier rear sight. Mine does! :D

[Rick R]

Mr Boy,
LOL! I'd forgotten about the devotees to the Holy Black. I may just try some in this rifle, though 1,000 ranges are scarce in WV

[Traffer]

Most folks have a dream gun. Some are fortunate enough to get theirs. Some have their sights set very high and want very expensive and rare guns. It is all good. My dream gun is a H&R Buffalo Classic in 45/70. Congratulations to you and your wife. I have a suspicion that you may be "borrowing it" from her on occasion.

[NavyVet1959]

At one time, I was looking for an H&R Buffalo Classic. I ended up stumbling across a Thompson Encore instead. Not the same, but I try to convince my self that "it'll do"... :)

[marlinman93]

Had a BC in .45-70, and biggest issue was the factory sights hitting too high at 100 yds. or less. The front globe is just too short, and they need a taller front sight to allow enough adjustment. I eventually put a tang sight on the rear by inletting a brass base into the stock, and epoxying it in place. Then drilled and tapped it to fit a Lee Shaver midrange vernier.

[Dthunter]

I agree with trying the postell bullets! They are silly accurate! The last three 100 yard groups in my 45-70 Browning highwall were under .628"! I wasn't using black powder though. It was Varget, 43.0 grains (1298fps average). At 46.0 grains, I average 1485fps. A real thumper with the 525 grain Postell!

http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a629/darcytyndall1/image3_zpssv80yzjv.jpg (http://s1287.photobucket.com/user/darcytyndall1/media/image3_zpssv80yzjv.jpg.html)


There are only 3 shots in this group. Two of the chronyed shots were put through some logs beside the target in an attempt to recover the bullets. No such luck! The bullets penetrated about 3.5 to 4' of dry poplar, and when awol into the bush behind the target!

http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a629/darcytyndall1/image2_zpszisdgdni.jpg (http://s1287.photobucket.com/user/darcytyndall1/media/image2_zpszisdgdni.jpg.html)

http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a629/darcytyndall1/image1_zpseikpf1fn.jpg (http://s1287.photobucket.com/user/darcytyndall1/media/image1_zpseikpf1fn.jpg.html)

[Rick R]

Well now I foresee me buying another mold. Is the 535gr boolit mold that NOE makes of the Postell flavor?

[Dthunter]

Rick R:

I am not familiar with the NOE 535 grain weight version, but I think is all relative. A great shooting design for sure.

[Texas by God]

I want one in 38-55. But a 45-70 would do nicely. I don't like the attempted schnable forend but I'd live with it.....

[725]

JohnBoy,
Your thoughts, please. (Everybody else, too) I have a "535" postell but it casts at 555 with the alloy I have. Wanting to use it in a BC .45-70 but am concerned about load data. Would your black powder load - or a reduced black powder load -- be suitable for this hinged breach rifle? I tend to be cautious and load below maximum most of the time. End objective is to whack the 500 & 600 yard gongs. How about suggestions using smokeless in this set up? Anybody have experiences in this neck of the woods?

[pietro]

.

I would respectfully advise you to be VERY careful, both with .45-70 loads & boolit weights, in that BC - since (despite the long barrel) it's light enough to whallop the shooter pretty good (BT, DT - NTS).



.

[Lead Fred]

Holy Black is the way to go. I tried several smokeless loads, and none work as good as black powder.
As far as moulds go, I went a different way. I went with an adjustable paper patch mould. It goes between 360ish & 540ish. Ive only used the full sized 540s.

This is who made mine
<------
http://kal.castpics.net/Molds.html

there are others
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?61316-adjustable-Paper-patch-45-mold-anyone-still-make-them

You cast your chamber, and then mic the lands and grooves, then have your mould built to your rifle.
I shoot the same boolit out of a 20 inch handi rifle also.

[725]

Lead Fred - For the BC, how much of which black powder do you use?

[rwadley]

I recommended a 1 lb. mercury recoil reducer.

[Rick R]

I picked it up yesterday. The stock has a few character marks, all the metal and the bore looks pristine. I made it to the range today and fired a few groups at 50 and 100 yards. Using the stock sights and Lee's 400gr boolit over 24.0gr of Alliant 2400 yielded this three round group on the second try:

177380

Recoil with the 400gr load was a maiden's caress, about on par with 12ga target loads.
Now with my normal Guide Gun hunting load, a 350gr NOE boolit @ 1,900fps the rifle shot about 8" high at 50 yards and I ran out of down adjustment. Plus my shoulder announced "No Mas!" after nine of those. Groups were good just very high.

I'm thinking of buying a Williams sight with target knobs, bearing in mind that I don't have many places to shoot further than 4-500 yards. I thought I'd read that the problem with the front sight was it was too high and needed replaced with a shorter one? This gun would need a taller front sight to shoot the high velocity 350gr load to POA? Now I'm thinking a better 405gr to 450gr boolit mold might make sense keeping the velocity at around 1,500? I've been telling myself I won't be hunting with this rifle but...

[Hiwall55]

I've had a few of these rifles, they are all very accurate with BP. I welded a tang on them and used a soule sight or put a Krag barrel sight on . If you have to go smokeless try 25-27 grains of 5744 with a RCBS 400 grain FP-GC . Very accurate load.

[rfd]

i've had 3 buff classics, all .45-70, never had an opportunity to get the .38-55, but would have.

the achilles heel to the BC is the very hefty trigger pull, which can be CAREFULLY *smoothed* down (not filed!) a tad. the sear is only surface hardened, so be careful! one of the easiest ways to smooth out the trigger is to just pull off the barrel and work the action by just keep cocking and "firing" (hold the trigger with yer thumb so it doesn't actually hit the transfer bar) whilst watching the boob tube. a *bit* of graphite spritzed down into the trigger/action helps, too.

fwiw, since it's a break action, putting on a tang vernier to the butt stock *may* introduce sight alignment issues as the action opens and closes over time, dunno for sure. some folks (you, john boy?) have had no problems doing so, and have successfully used the BC out to 1000 yards. i used a smith enterprises ladder peep rear, replacing the stock williams. it worked ok, but expensive.

the stock rifle is awful light and needs weight added ... easy to do, just remove the butt plate and load up with lead. i stuck in a 1# mercury tube to the first BC i had and while it worked fine, just stuffing in a few pounds of lead (shot is best as you can get more in) was as good if not better on taming the recoil.

the forestock can be "floated" by removing its screw and putting a rubber "O" ring washer 'tween the wood and barrel before screwing it back together.

i shot the BC initially with smokeless (trail boss and aa5744) and my own cast bullets (lyman 457193 and 457132) for starters - they both shot super. but real black powder is best and easiest of all and fire forming the brass makes it last seemingly forever and the only need for a press is powder compression.

all in all, the BC is a great introduction to bpcr on the cheap - too bad they're no longer produced.

enjoy yers! ;)

[725]

For the black powder loading, would you go with FFg or Cartridge BP?

[rfd]

For the black powder loading, would you go with FFg or Cartridge BP?

personally, i only load bpcr with swiss 1-1/2f. olde enyesford 1-1/2f seems to get high marks from others. and ya can't go wrong with good ol' goex 2f and save some bucks in the process. there are a few other flavors of bp that are good, too. though some use and like subs, no no no never me.

[rfd]

Lead Fred - For the BC, how much of which black powder do you use?

if i may answer your question to lead fred ... the "load data" for ALL black powder cartridges is the same - fill the case. that's the basis, after you figure out the max OAL of yer rifle's chamber and set an OAL for yer cartridge. this may help - www.buffalorifles.org/bpcr.html

[bradley.moss72]

Kid at Christmas with a new gun (check)

Fun with an H&R 45-70 BC (check)

Now you need to mosey over to Graybeards Outdoors Handi-Rifle forum and get the details in the FAQS.

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php?topic=26264.0

BW

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[Rick R]

Great source! Thanks!

[725]

rfd - Wasn't sure about compressed loads. I'll give it a fling.

[bubba.50]

the Lee 340 over 60gr of 2f with two milk-carton wads to take up a bit of space was awesomely accurate to my self-imposed 75yd limit in the one I had.

[rfd]

rfd - Wasn't sure about compressed loads. I'll give it a fling.

personally, i don't load any bp cartridge without some amount of compression, no matter how small, to insure that the wads and bullet are well seated. the amount of compression to use is one of many variables that require some amount of experimentation in order to suss out best consistent accuracy.