.32 rimfire ammo

[dave bertram]

Hi folks,
I'm in Australia & have a problem with my remington .32 rimfire. I purchased some brass & projectiles a little while back, anyway after loading the rounds I went out to test fire the rifle, 16 out of 25 bullets would not chamber, the nine rounds that went about 90% of the way in still would not allow me to close the rolling block door.
So after stripping a few of the rounds that almost chambered, I tried the cases & all was good, they went home no worries, not so for the projectiles, they only went as far as the rifling, after a bit of a bump on the base of the projectile, it was well & truly wedged in place. After removing it there were deep score marks in the projectile from the rifling. After much discussion & investigation, I found out that remington rifles are quoted as having a bore size of .304" or 7.7mm as against .316" or 8.0mm for say a S&W load, (source from wikipedia)
Can anyone tell me if this is in fact correct? If this is correct does anyone have any ideas on how to swage the projectiles down to the correct size?
Any help would be gratefully appreciated, as I really want to use this rifle, just to prove to the knockers at my club who said that it couldn't be done to make it work, as you haven't been able to buy ammo since the 60's.
Cheers Dave.

[Mr Humble]

I assume you converted this rifle to centerfire ? To what ?

Step one is to get some cerrosafe and make a chamber/throat cast. This will tell you how big/long bullet you can use.

The 32 rimfire bullet is .316 dia., the 32 S&W is .312, so I'm guessing you have the wrong bullets.

Insofar as the bore size, you should slug it, I doubt it's groove diameter is .304, bore might be but with a .316 bullet, .312 would be more like it.

As far as the old rimfire goes, here is all the info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.32_rimfire

What cases and bullets did you buy (be specific and detailed)

Let us know.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I've never examined any small-frame rolling block, and what I know about in .32 rimfires are the lever-action Marlins.Does your rifle bear a calibre designation?It could be that it is chambered for .32 Short. Another possibility is the change made about the beginning of the 20th century to .32 Long Rifle in rimfire and centrefire, with an inside-lubed non-heel bullet, although the ordinary outside-lubed .32 rimfire continued in production and outlived it.

My 92 Marlin has .302in. lands and .307in. grooves, which exactly matches a Marlin table of bore dimensions from 1909, in which they are simply marked "32 R&C". The case was lengthened,so that all of the bullet’s grooved bearing surface was covered by brass - or by copper, as these cases originally were - and most authorities assume the chamber and case diameter to have been unchanged, at about .318in. The new bullet had a deep, conical base cavity, so that provided soft lead was used, it would expand to fill the larger bore of an older firearm, made for the .32 long. Indeed my 1905 Marlin catalogue, in the 92 rifle rather than ammunition section, says it depended ondoing so. Frank Barnes says the Long Rifle bullet was .312in., but I can't believe they made the brass as thin as paper, and about .307in. seems more plausible.

I've been told that Stevens diameters for the Favourite were .2985 land .314in. groove, but I have slugged my own late Favourite at .303 and .308, suggesting that Stevens made a similar transition to Marlin. The first drawing below is my own, based on bullet pictures from Marlin and Ideal catalogues.

176953

176954

[Mk42gunner]

Welcome aboard.

If you go to the rimfire section, there are several threads about loading the .32 rimfire. Some involve converting to centerfire, some don't.

Here is a link to one of the threads: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?147224-reloadable-32-rimfire-brass

Robert

[Chev. William]

Mr. Bertram,
I too have some old Stevens Favorites and Model 44 barrels chambered for ".32 Long RF" and mine all 'slugged' as less than .309" Groove Diameter with a Bore range of .299" to .304" so I would also suggest you "Slug" your barrel and measure the the Resulting engraved lead slug for both minimum (Bore) and maximum (groove) diameters.

As the old RF .32 cartridges were made with Very soft Lead bullets, they would 'swage' to the rifling well which Stevens barrels seemed to like and gave very good accuracy in shooting.

A "Hard Cast Lead" bullet would not 'swage as easily so if that is what you are using, I would suggest running the LUBED bullets through a .308" sizing die AND trim a couple of your cartridges to .76" case length, or less, to allow them to fit your chamber.

In my 'converted CF' Model 44, i can use a 90 grain Heeled Bullet (311090A) sized after lube to .309" on the driving band with case length of .920" in my ".32 Long RF" barrel. The RF Favorite (with a '22RF' breech block) prefers .890" long cases with the same bullet and I use a Grade 1 'nail gun' blank as primer for my charges. I only load the Favorite to run about 'Sonic velocity' (less than 1124fps) in difference to its Pivot Screw Strengths.
NOTE: my cases are 'home made' and have the .22 RF blank centered in the .32 Adapter cases.


The .309" bullets 'swage' to fit my bores nicely upon firing giving acceptable accuracy even from the "less Than Pristine" pitted bores of my used barrels.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[dave bertram]

Hi Mr Humble,
No the rifle still a rimfire & standard.
The different bore size that I mentionmed is from the wikipedia site for .32 rimfire.
I purchased the cases & projectiles & reloading tools for the HC collection website, they manufacture rounds for absolete calibers, check out hccollection.com

[dave bertram]

Hi Chev.William,
the projectiles are soft lead, they mike up at roughly .316" they are cast & slightly out of round.
there is no way that the projectiles will fit into the bore unless they are driven in with a punch, then they become very firmly jambed.
there is no way that i can close the rolling block door unless I hammer it home, not a good option.
I shall have to slug the barrel as you suggested.
cheers Dave

[dave bertram]

Hi Robert,
thanks for info I'll check it out.
cheers Dave.

[Mr Humble]

Dave, found the site, it's HC-collection.com
W/O the dash you get to see a nice bed.
So you are using an insert cartridge fired by a blank cartridge.
Is your rifle short or long 32 RF, using the long cartridge in a short chamber could be your problem, hence my suggestion to do a chamber cast.

The cases Dixie sells are short to ensure they work in both.

After you have slugged it and done a chamber cast (with pictures) get back, I'm sure this can be figured out.

[buckshotshoey]

Not 32 rf savvy, so this may be a stupid question. You say you purchased the primed brass? What "trim to" lenght did you use? Or did you not trim them before loading?

You mentioned that 9 of 16 went 90% of the way in. Sounds like they were of uneven lenght to begin with.

[Mr Humble]

These are solid brass turned cases. Go to the site and see them.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I found the rimfire section of that website. If you have the Google toolbar installed, it should offer to translate it.


http://www.hc-collection.com/rimfire-c102x333793


It would surely to be possible to make those inserts from 8mm. brass tubing, possibly using a piece of drill rod to expand it slightly. A long time ago I discovered my ability to use a drill press, with unerring skill, to spin a neatly turned over rim on brass tubing. The only snag is that I was trying to trephine a hole in an agate slice with silicon carbide paste at the time.

A long time ago I made rimfire rifle cases from 9mm. primed but never loaded shotshells. The Birmingham Gun Barrel Proof House had decided that they were unlikely ever to prove many 9mm. shotguns, so they sent 5lb. of cases to auction. They are .325in. diameter for most of the body, .310 ID at the neck, but the last 3/8in. or so is .343in. diameter, duplicating the brass base of the long-gone paper cases. I used to size down that swelling in a die of my own making, at first with the priming composition dampened, but later dry, with a piece of silicon tubing hoseclipped to the die and pointing at the ceiling.


The rim may pose difficulties with some firearms, unless you enlarge its recess in the chamber. It is about .40in. diameter, and though its rounded shape makes the rim thickness hard to measure, it is about .050. If you were to alter it and wanted to reverse the process, setting the barrel back by one thread would do it.

[w30wcf]

Dave,
Welcome to Cast Boolits!

How long are your cases?
For the original .32 LC external lubed bullet they were .78-.81.
For the later internal lubed bullet - .91".

Sounds like you might have the .91" cases with the bullet meant for the .78-.80" case.

You could try trimming one to .80" and see if it chambers ok then.

Good luck,
w30wcf

[buckshotshoey]

Dave,
Welcome to Cast Boolits!

How long are your cases?
For the original .32 LC external lubed bullet they were .78-.81.
For the later internal lubed bullet - .91".

Sounds like you might have the .91" cases with the bullet meant for the .78-.80" case.

You could try trimming one to .80" and see if it chambers ok then.

Good luck,
w30wcf

Thats kind of what i was thinking. The clue was the bullet being engraved with rifling marks. A too big diameter bullet prob wouldnt enter the throat of chamber to begin with. Especially after being seated in a case that is then expanded. And he stated the cases inserted ok with no bullet. A bore slug is strongly suggested to find out bore diameter for certain.

[Mr Humble]

Chamber cast ! Slug bore !!!!

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Thats kind of what i was thinking. The clue was the bullet being engraved with rifling marks. A too big diameter bullet prob wouldnt enter the throat of chamber to begin with. Especially after being seated in a case that is then expanded. And he stated the cases inserted ok with no bullet. A bore slug is strongly suggested to find out bore diameter for certain.

Just where and how the bullet is engraved should show whether the bullet is excessive in diameter or positioned too far forward by the case length.