Electrical Question...

[BCB]

How many wires are attached to a 220 submersable water pump? Thanks...BCB

[redneckdan]

I beleive its 4...buts its been a while. I'm pretty sure they use the red/black hot, white common and green ground.

[ovendoctor]

2 both hot lines

[fishhawk]

2 lines both 110 and one common so 3 total for 220 V

[BCB]

The particular pump has 2 lines running to it. Is it possible to run 220 to the pump with only 2 lines. Woundn't there have to be two 110's and a 1 ground? BCB

[yeahbub]

If this is an ordinary household 240V pump, there should be at least three; two hots and a ground, usually a hot (black), the other hot (white), and a green (ground). Occasionally I would find some equipment that would have four; two hots (red and black), neutral (white), and a green ground, but this was because there was other features that were 120V, like lights, readouts, etc. so they needed 120V while the motor was 240V.

The two hots going in have to be on opposite phases to get 240V, one from one buss bar in your breaker panel and one from the other. This is why 240V breakers take up two spaces in the panel and have two terminals to attach the wires. Each will measure 120V to ground and 240V from phase to phase. Hence you'll have two hots going to the pump - one from each buss bar of the panel and a ground for safety. the ground may have a ground wire in the pump's junction box to connect to or there will be a ground screw in there.

I hope I'm not spewing info and answering questions you're not asking. I'm not sure how much of this you already know.

[clong]

If this is a deep well pump it will usually only have 2 wires conncected to it. Both are carriers. It is grounded by being 100+ feet deep in water.

If it is a sump pump it will have at least 3 wires, 2 carriers and one ground. If it has 4 wires then it is 2 carriers, a ground and a neutral.

[BCB]

yeahbub,

I do believe that is the situation. The ground you mention, will it be in the house at the switch for the pump? Thanks again...BCB

[ovendoctor]

The particular pump has 2 lines running to it. Is it possible to run 220 to the pump with only 2 lines. Woundn't there have to be two 110's and a 1 ground? BCB

from the control's to the pump motor can be wired with two hot wires [one from each phase]

from the power panel to the control's need to have a ground wire with the two hot wires

your well pump is inside a really big ground[well casing]

[fishhawk]

i think you guys are confusing the ground and common, they are 2 differnt things

[ovendoctor]

dont need a common with 220

the motor runs between the phases

[yeahbub]

If there's a switch box, it would stand to reason that it would all be fed though there. If it's set up in the usual manner, there will be the feeder (romex? black, white, ground) coming in and the same thing going out to the pump. the blacks and whites will be screwed onto the switch terminals and the grounds wire-nutted together to continue the ground through to the pump housing.

BTW, sometimes I run across a situation where someone has put a single-pole switch (two screws) in a 240V circuit (air conditioner or whatever) instead of a double-pole switch (four screws). There are two phases to be concerned about and a single-pole switch will only interrupt one of them. When turned off, the pump will stop, but there's still 120V live at the pump in the un-interrupted line - a nasty surpise for whoever is working on it. Unless the switch is out of the wall and can be seen to be a single-pole, the assumption will be that there's no power at the pump, a potentially fatal assumption. The double-pole switch interrupts or connects both phases when turned off or on, hence ensuring no hazard at the pump when the switch is off. Still, though, one always uses a tester to make sure. Don't ask me how I know. . . . :roll:

[uncle joe]

some new devices that run on 220v do have a neutral (common).
new dryers have this I know. There is indeed a difference between the common and the ground. Yes they are hooked up at the panel to the same place but one is a 'grounded' conductor and the other is a 'grounding' conductor. One carries the current back to ground in normal operation, the other carries current safely to ground in case of a short in the frame of the appliance, big difference at the device.:mrgreen:

[BCB]

Well, it does appear the 2 wires to the pump will do the job! I was at my uncle’s house and he was having trouble with his water pump. A qualified electrician is handling the situation, so it isn’t like I am thinking of dealing with 220…

The electric comes into the house and to a breaker box. From there a circuit has been assigned to the pump and a line runs from the breaker box to another fuse box (screw in type) near the storage tank for the water. It has 2 screw-in fuses. From there is where the 2 lines go to the pump. I really don’t know how many lines are at the fuse box. But I think the grounding must occur there?

Oh well, I was just curious and it seems that a couple of posts here have sort of addressed the situation without even seeing it—must be standard procedures. Thanks again…BCB

[pumpguy]

If there are only two wires running to the pump, it is an old 2 wire pump. They made them start putting a green wire that is simply a ground to the motor in the late 80's. Even though there are 3 wires leading to the pump, it is considered a two wire pump. This means that the relay and capacitor that kicks the juice from the start windings to the larger run windings is in the motor. There are also 3 wire pumps that actually have 4 wires if you count the green ground wire. These pumps have a control box with a start capacitor and a relay that also kicks the juice from the start windings to the runs. The red wire carries the juice for a fraction of a second until the motor reaches 2800 rpm at which time it is carrying only a residual amount of elctricity. There are control boxes with start and run capacitors that will keep the start windings engaged, but, they are rarer as they cost more. The problem with the old motors that did not have the green wire was that if the motor shorted out, the electricity looked for a path out of the well. Little kid in Wyoming brushed up against a steel cased well that was "hot" and died.

[johnch]

I install the *^%(*^) things all the time

Older pumps had 2 wires
Newer pumps have 3 ( ground )
Real old had 3 , but 1 was to a start capisator that was mounted in the house
Remove it and just use the 2 hot wires on the new pump

We run all 3 wire
Drill the casing , atach a solderless lug and growd the pump to the casing

John

[JIMinPHX]

A pump should always, always, always be grounded. It may be grounded by a green wire that comes in with the power. It may be grounded by a wire directly from a driven ground rod. If enough feet of METAL pipe go into the earth, then that can count as a ground too.

The neutral buss in a household load center is normally connected to ground at the point of power entry & nowhere else. Everywhere else (including sub panels) neutral & ground wires are run separately, even though they were joined at the service entrance. (modern wiring)

Assuming that we are talking about a single phase motor, & we are if this is in a residence, then only two wires are required to provide power. Both these legs must be switched. They are both “hot”. You can’t just switch the “hot” leg & leave the “neutral” connected like you do with 110-V.

You may also have a neutral wire in there if the pump has 110-volt controls (like contactors) mounted to it.

So the answer is – You may have 2, 3 or 4 wires depending on how it’s grounded & if it has 110-volt controls mounted to it.

[pumpguy]

I install the *^%(*^) things all the time

Older pumps had 2 wires
Newer pumps have 3 ( ground )
Real old had 3 , but 1 was to a start capisator that was mounted in the house
Remove it and just use the 2 hot wires on the new pump

We run all 3 wire
Drill the casing , atach a solderless lug and growd the pump to the casing

John

Well, you got it partly right. Older and newer pumps can have three or four wires. Connecting both wires tothe hot and throwing out what I am assuming is the control box is a recipe for premature pump failure. The start windings in a submersible motor are not designed to be run without a capacitor. They are there simply to get the motor spinning fast enough to let the main windings take over. They act kind of like a granny gear. Also, depending on your horsepower, your overload protection is in the control box. Remove it and there goes all your protection.

As for drilling the casing. This will only work in wells that are steel cased. Many of the wells drilled today are PVC cased. Also, not that I like regulations any better than the next guy, but, you do not want to drill through your casing above ground. This is a path for surface water to enter the well and contaminate your water.