Help me out of a jam

[shaman]

I've been having a ball with cast boolits in centerfire pistol and rifle for the past couple of years, and I thought I would try a 30-30 project.

I started with a Lee C309-150-F and did the same shake-and-bake powder coating I've been using on my 35 cals. I loaded a batch using Unique and another with H4895, and finished them off with a light crimp using the Lee Factory Crimp die. I distinctly remember trying an un-crimped round in my Marlin 336 as well as a finished round to check for length. When I finally brought them to the range, I found that most of the rounds were a tad too long for the chamber. I'm not too sure how that happened. but so be it. I'll figure that out when I make my next attempt.

The problem that I have is that there are now close to 50 rounds of 30-30 that won't fit in my one and only 30-30 rifle. If I use a bullet puller the gas check will stay in. If I try and seat the bullet deeper using the seating die, I'll probably crush the case due to the crimp.

What would you suggest for a next step?

[bedbugbilly]

Try seating one a little deeper and see what happens. The most you could loose is one casing. The other alternative would be to find someone with a rifle that they'll work in - shoot 'em and then seat deeper the next time.

I'm kind of struggling with the same thing only in a Winchester 94 "Ranger". I'm new to the 30-30 as far as reloading and the last batch of 60 that I loaded up - 10 each of different boolit design and powder charges to try out - I had 10% or so that wouldn't go bang. I thought it was the CCI primers I'm using and then a fellow member here put me on to the possibility I needed to seat the boolit just a tad deeper - and then I remmed reed that on the dummy round, I did ha e slight engraving on the boolit. Fortunately, I got through the batches I'd loaded up and only had 2 out of 50 that wouldn't go bang at all. It's all a learning process.

I just ordered a Lee FC die to try so really have no experience with it. In your circumstance, I'd try seating one and see what happens as like you say, if you pull them you cold leave the GC in the neck. I just bought a nice Marlin 1948 Moel 3336 SC so I'll be learning things with that one too I'm sure.

Good luck and I look forward to seeing how it works out for you. Does the Lee FC die actually put a roll crimp on the boolit or does it just remove any belling that you had on the case mouth? I would think that if they only had a very moderate crimp on them and it was a flat brim, they might slide in deeper?

Hopefully someone much more experienced than I will come along with the answer! Good luck!

[s mac]

I would pull the bullets, and deal with any checks that stay, turn them sideways in the neck and remove with needlenose pliers.

[GhostHawk]

Seating deeper is the easy way if it is possible. Never tried it with PC'd boolits though.

If that is not possible then pulling is the only remaining choice. Small mosquito forceps and a small screwdriver will be helpful. Tip the check sideways so you see it edge on, grab with forceps and pull it out.

I've done my share of those, mostly it is a matter of taking your time, being a bit deliberate and careful.

I also had a Mosin with a very sharp 90 degree angle step at the end of the neck that if the nose was a touch oversized would scrape lead or stick a loaded round, prevent it from chambering.

The fix for that one was a hardwood dowel chucked into my drill, whittled down till it was close to case and bullet shape and a slot on the end into which I put a piece of steel wool.

3 minutes later that sharp edge was now a nice radius smoothly gliding boolits into position with no more sticking or shaving of lead.

I noticed that my Win 94AE has a very abrupt jump into the rifling. Very little lead or freebore.
Almost no transition at all from case neck to rifling. I have not modified mine, not sure I will. Plenty of room in that long neck .30-30 case to just seat a bit deeper.

[Lead Fred]

Resize the cases, only way to ensure proper fit

Take a case that has no boolit on it, and feed it into the chamber. Are you cases too long?

[runfiverun]

not too long, the nose is too fat from the p/c.

if you have a 270 WSM size die the neck sizing portion of it should be in the 300 area, you might be able to get the nose of the boolit in there and size it down enough to chamber.

[shaman]

Good news! I took the rounds and measured them, and the seating depths varied wildly- as much as .05" Why that is, I have no clue. However, I got out the seating die and the rifle and tried successive iterations of seating the bullet successively lower and testing in the rifle. This was one of those cross-bolt safety models, so I had no fear of a discharge--first time I've actually been happy I had it. At the minimum length of the lot, the round chambered without engraving the bullet. The cases were none the worse for it, and I suspect they'll all go bang when I go to the range.

Thanks for the encouragement.

[Walter Laich]

from way out in left field...what about cutting off the bullet with a saw? just enough to allow you to chamber. Bullets won't be accurate but might let you load and shoot them.

YMMV

[shaman]

I thought of doing just that, but i figured I run past all my crazy uncles on this august forum first. A man needs crazy uncles in his life. Someone you feel safe asking advice from-- someone who you know won't tell Dad. I never had a crazy uncle growing up, so I've had to rely on guys like y'all. Thanks.

[FredBuddy]

R5R is correct, the p/c makes that Lee boolit fat in the nose and difficult to chamber in some rifles. The p/c can also be the culprit with the seating depth variances. I've gone through the same issues with that boolit in a 1949 336, but it works just fine in other 30-30's. Don't give up, shaman and bedbugbilly, 'cause you're gonna have a lot of fun with those 30-30's.

[Digital Dan]

I would pull the bullets, and deal with any checks that stay, turn them sideways in the neck and remove with needlenose pliers.

That^^^^^

Surgical forceps are even better, don't bother asking how I know such things.

Dr. Dan

[44man]

What do the boolit noses measure? I need the ogive at .301" to chamber. The nose must be bore size, NOT groove. I have a boolit that needs the nose alone sized with the base at .311". PC can make the nose too fat.

[wonderwolf]

I've had issues with the lee 150 Flat nose in a single shot 30-30 and no throat in that particular chamber, Upon more research little or zero throat is common I have come to find.

I don't PC but I can imagine doing so to the 150F would cause issues.

[44man]

One thing to watch for if using a separate crimp die is to make sure your boolits fit through them.
I have profile dies that my fat boolits won't go through so it will try to seat more.
I just use my seat die to crimp and had one I needed to lap out.

[OS OK]

This points to several things, one of which is the necessity to get an even coat on the nose of the cast. I try to point that out to the new coaters when I say to tap that cast on the side of the tray or tub before standing it on the cook sheet. PC of good quality actually flows and self evens things out with the aid of a little gravity, this is exaggerated even more when using clear coats, they seem to flow more readily without the pigment mixed in the works.
Those who ESPC sometimes go overboard with the coating really leaving it thick and the noses of the cast being the first place it gathers gets a very thick pile of PC on the nose and radius. If trying to seat to a crimp groove the varying thickness of the PC can be maddening.
For those who just throw them on the wire tray and cook in a big unorganized pile risk the PC settling to one side of the cast more so than the top side. With the nose of the cast actually entering the bore without touching the lands it doesn't take too much increase in thickness of coat to actually engage the bore on one side cocking the projectile a couple of thousands...who knows what effect that would have on the rounds but from what I've seen in some of the postings of 50 yard targets with the rifles, I'd at least consider this. No rhyme or reason to the shotgun looking patterns of the targets. Then some follow with the statement that PC may not be as accurate as the lube sized casts.
The only consistent answer I get from the forum, with the exception of a few is this...
"You mean you take time to stand those boolits? You even take time to tap them while picking them with tweezers? Awh heck no! I just bla bla bla...it's quicker!"

Well so much for the first thoughts of my pea brain this morning...need more Joe...charlie

[Texas by God]

Crazy uncle Thomas here. Get your pocket knife and chewing tobacco out and whittle them noses down till they fit. A lot funner than pulling bullets. Best, Thomas.

[OS OK]

It wouldn't take more than a quick spin at a wire wheel, just the radius and only a tad off that.

[s mac]

It wouldn't take more than a quick spin at a wire wheel, just the radius and only a tad off that.
Now that's using the old bean.

[Smoke4320]

It wouldn't take more than a quick spin at a wire wheel, just the radius and only a tad off that.
that or a Chamfer tool . a quick spin and your done

[Texas by God]

But those last solutions don't feature a rocking chair.....Best, Thomas.

[OS OK]

Your right about the 'old bean'...it's old alright! Smoke has an old bean too!

"Where there is a will...an old bean has a way!"

[shaman]

Let me ask y'all this: if seating the bullet deeper gets the bolt to close, is there any reason to worry about it any further?

Going forward, when I get to the next batch, should I do anything different besides seating deeper?

[gwpercle]

R5R is correct, the p/c makes that Lee boolit fat in the nose and difficult to chamber in some rifles. The p/c can also be the culprit with the seating depth variances. I've gone through the same issues with that boolit in a 1949 336, but it works just fine in other 30-30's. Don't give up, shaman and bedbugbilly, 'cause you're gonna have a lot of fun with those 30-30's.

Correct , if the coating is uneven then seating depths will vary , work on getting an even coat all over.

[shaman]

Hmm. I wonder what scraping down to the alloy on the very top would do to uniform them? On the next batch I'm thinking a quick run over a file until the paint is gone. The PC is not needed on that surface.