what dents what test ?

[hershey]

i saw a mention in another thread about some types of lead denting other types of lead, my question is, is there anyway to come up w/ some good rules of thumb from this when scouting lead? i have visited several places that have lead, but don't know when i find high tin or other desireable elements to it. can anyone offer any insight to this ? is how big the dent is from a ball peen hammer an accurate test of what it is or are there to many other variables?

[HeavyMetal]

To many varaibles to use a dent test in the field. Unless they will let you melt some and you can use a hardness tester like the Lee, which meaures a specific dent size created by a specific amount of pressure for a specific time.

Kinda tough to do that in the field.

You can "Bang" some ingots together and see how they sound. A high tin/antimony content alloy will have a bit of a ring to it pure lead and wheel weights are rather flat sounding.

However this "sound" will also change as the ingot size does so it's not fool proof by any means.

When I buy lead it's all wheel weight unless the seller can prove other wise. For me this is more than seeing a pile of ingots marked lyman lee or rcbs, again thats just wheel weight metal.

Lino type must be in type form or I won't spend the money! It's a rare day you see type metal in any type of ingot form and if it is it will have a lot number on it that can be used to determine it's alloy from the original foundry!

At that point you know your buying what you want and negotiate a price from that point by determining how much your willing to buy!

Scrap metal yards are like Pawn shops: it's a rare day you put one over on them, after all it is thier business to know what they got!

As far as any other supplies of lead you may run into? It's all wheel weight baby unless they can prove it!

[runfiverun]

one kinda "field test" that is pretty simple but takes practice is with a staple gun it kinda
works like the lee denter idea.
if you aint sure it's ww's if it seems softer it is prob pure.

[hershey]

it seems like what i have been finding is sheet lead type stuff, on scrap yards, most don't know one type of lead from another, if one is worth allot more and they don't know it and i can figure out how to identify it, i will be able to do well. the local scrap yard has several ton in a dumpster type deal, they dump wheel weights, sheet, water line, and any and everything together, unless someone tells them different, it is all the cheap stuff to them, i have actually had quite s bit of luck on "fooling" scrap yards, into paying me for a higher valued product than what i've actually had because i know more about the product (mostly stainless steels) than they do and can sort it a little better.

correct me if i am wrong, but a person is further ahead paying allot more (double) for WW's because the alloys are already in it, in lue of pure lead and then adding the alloy.

[HeavyMetal]

wheel weights are .5% tin, 4% antimony and 95.5% lead.

Since WW are marked in the mold during the manufacture with it's specific weight the alloy must remain constant to some degree or the weight's and the markings would be "off". This has a tendency to get end users to switch vendors if the product isn't always the same.

I have never found high tin content WW. Tin is added to help pick up the markings from the mold and antimony is the hardening agent.

Antimony is why WW metals are liked by most casters they can be harden if one knows how.

Mixing pure lead and WW's will make softer alloy's good for black powder and target wadcutters.

I think your on the right track learning as much about lead alloys as you can. My Granddad always said knowing more than the other guy was a big part of making any "deal"!

Suggest you let your scrap guy know your looking for several different type of "lead" alloy.

Many times these guys will pass on something because it's to hard for them to seperate the metals. He may know of a source for type metal s and just hasn't wanted to mess with it.

Thats why you do will with stainless steel: your willing to seperate it and they don't want to pay the labor to do it.

[montana_charlie]

The question of making something portable, and reliable enough to use at a scrap yard, is an interesting one.

I think fixing a small ball bearing (1/4"?) on the end of a short piece of large diameter rod...and then dropping it through a tube onto the lead surface...might have some value.
This simulates one of the standard hardness testing methods, and should be able to provide a fairly useful notion about the relative hardness of the alloys you might find in a scrap yard.

All you need with you is your weighted ball indenter (8 ounces?), the tube (18 inches?), and some calipers to measure the diameter of the impression.

Do your testing at home with known alloys, and write the numbers on the side of the tube.
CM

[utk]

This exact principle was used in an article I have.
They used a 2 lb weight which dropped 20 inches down a plastic tube onto the "unknown alloy", cast as a .44 cal round ball resting on a steel block. Then they measured the diameter of the flat with calipers.
They also tried putting a 10 mm steel bearing ball onto the sample and dropped the weight. But this method was not as consistent for some reason...

Edit:
They measured the "new diameter" of the ball, between the flats.
NOT the diameter of the flat itself. You could also say they measured how "short" the ball got.

But I guess that "in the field" you would have to use a steel ball and measure the diameter of the indent as the "unknown alloy" can have any shape.