25-20 or 32-20 whisper?

[andym79]

Hi guys, just wondered if anyone has loaded up 25-20 or 32-20 with large for cartridge bullets.

I am interested in using larger bullets in either or both cartridges at low velocity.

If anyone is doing this I am interested in:

a) what kind of accuracy you have been getting

b) what size bullets and loads you use

c) what twist your barrel has

d) in some ways most importantly does you rifle have a standard chamber and if not and you getting bullets with reduced bands at the front?

At this stage I am thinking of 150-170 grainers in the 32-20 and 110-120 grainers in the 25-20, is that doable?

Thanks

Andy

[Scharfschuetze]

My heaviest bullet in the 25/20 has been a 75 grain at as high a velocity that I can drive it at in a Savage Model 23b, so I can't help you with that one.

In the 32/20 I use 115 grain cast boolits in both a Savage Model 23 and a Marlin 1894CL. That has been the best boolit weight for me in these rifles and it does well from 900 fps up to just over 1,800 fps. Powders for a quiet subsonic load are usually either Bullseye or Unique. The fast stuff is best fed something slower like Accurate 1680. I use plain base 115 32/20 designs for the lighter loads and the NOE 316299 with gas check for the higher velocities.

One of the better commercial 32/20 115 grain boolits is the Oregon Trail product. It does pretty well for accuracy in both rifles and revolvers. My revolver load at 945 fps is just supersonic in the rifles and is probably what you are looking for if you drop it to 4.0 grains of Unique under any of the 115 grain boolit designs.

My 25/20 is exceptionally accurate and will often produce 1 MOA groups for 10 shots and it holds well at 300 yards with a lot of elevation dialed into the sight.

My 32/20s will hang with 2 MOA groups on a good day, but can open up to 3 MOA now and then. They'll still hold the 200 yard 10" gong every shot though.

[runfiverun]

you might wanna do a search for heavy stuff in the 30 carbine that would give you a good idea about the 32-20.

[Greg S]

I've got a MiHec 314-640 Sledgehammer 135 HP/140 Solid. I've only casted last week with it and just finished sizing them. They are a GC design so I wasn't planning on making mouse fart loads with them but I'll try some unique, Rdot and BE and play around with them in a winnie 92.

More velocity will help stabilize those long/heavy for caliber boolits. I know the 135 is stable in a Ruger buckeye @14_1500.

[wch]

See the singleshotrifles.com website for their take on a heavy bullet 32-20 round- a match winner for these shooters.

[MT Chambers]

See the singleshotrifles.com website for their take on a heavy bullet 32-20 round- a match winner for these shooters.
Yup, CPA has caused a rebirth of the 32/20, by chambering rifles in this cal. for long bullets, and top accuracy out to 200 yds. I'm not sure if they started it but they are chambering it in their excellent rifles.

[Czech_too]

​I've done some load development using a rifle length Contender barrel in 30-20, since it has a .308 bore.
To date the only 'heavy' boolit I've used has been the RCBS 30-150-FN and either Reloader 7 or 2400

[fourarmed]

My wife and I have shot bigbore metallic silhouette using the 32-20 Contender and Lyman's 311041 in front of 9 to 10 grains of the 4227 powders for many years. More recently, I got a second barrel that I have done a little load development with, and it does well with the 311291 and the same powder charge. The RCBS 165 silhouette bullet is also worth a try. Other people I shoot with have used Winchester 296 and similar bullets with success.

[andym79]

My wife and I have shot bigbore metallic silhouette using the 32-20 Contender and Lyman's 311041 in front of 9 to 10 grains of the 4227 powders for many years. More recently, I got a second barrel that I have done a little load development with, and it does well with the 311291 and the same powder charge. The RCBS 165 silhouette bullet is also worth a try. Other people I shoot with have used Winchester 296 and similar bullets with success.

Thanks for that? Are the chambers cut specially for those big bullets? As in do they have a longer leade or are the bullets sized at the front or seated deep? Don't mean to sound ignorant, but you can only push a bullet so far into the rifling when using fixed ammo!

I know with my 30-30 and that type of bullet I can touch the rifling without seating it real far forward!

Having said that I have never tried to put a dummy round into my win 92 32-20 like that I might see how far forward I can get the 311041 in that out of curiosity.

Also what twist rate do those contender barrels have?

[Good Cheer]

Tried 75 grain j-word HP's in the bolt action 25-20. They work like FMJ non-expanding at low velocity.

Makes for expensive dumplings though! :rolleyes:

Gonna try the gas checked 89 grainer when I get aO2it.

[JeffinNZ]

I vote .32-20 on the basis of the availability of suitable moulds and the mass of the projectile.

Here is my Martini .32-20 with 1-10 .303 Brit barrel. Shoots well with 100-240gr bullets.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Shooting%20stuff/DSCN2130.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/JeffinNZ/media/Shooting%20stuff/DSCN2130.jpg.html)

[quilbilly]

I have a Contender 10" 32/20 with a 308 bore. I have used up to 130 gr boolits but eventually settled on a 113 gr boolit at 1350 fps. I did take velocities up to 1700 fps a couple times but accuracy fell off after 1400 fps. Even at 1350 fps, that 113 gr RFGC has been deadly on coyotes out to 150 yards with iron sights (farthest my old eyes can focus and then only when well rested in the morning) and some terminal ballistics tests suggested it would be OK on smaller deer out to about 75 yards although I have never tested the theory. That 32/20 is far and away my favorite Contender caliber. If I knew some lever gun maker made a 32/20 with a 308 bore, I might have to raid the piggy bank.

[sisterjim]

I have used the 25720 plain base made from 20:1 Pb/Sn. in the 25-20 over 3.5grs of trail boss they are subsonic. Twist rate is 1:14. At 50 yards these bullets were close to my full house sight settings. At 100 yards they were a foot low and some were tumbling. I killed a few cats with this quiet load and the damage was disproportionate to the muzzle energy. I think the heavy 303 military rounds were designed around the same concept. Modern warfare prefers a wounded man who will inconvenience the enemy more than a deed 'un!

[Digital Dan]

At this stage I am thinking of 150-170 grainers in the 32-20 and 110-120 grainers in the 25-20, is that doable?

You can get there with a 10" twist in the .25-20 and 12" for the .32-20.

[Czech_too]

"Also what twist rate do those contender barrels have?"

1 in 10"

[Sur-shot]

All of the modern single shot handguns in 32-20 have a .308 barrel with a 1-10 twist. That includes the Contender, BF and the Merrill or XL. I shot a 32-20 for years in big bore competition and the smallest bullet I used was a 150gr. The older revolvers and rifles are not .308 and take a bullet diameter from .311 to .320 so you need to slug your barrel before you jump.

I found H-4227 was about the best powder for accuracy with top end velocity. The bad part about the 30 Carbine with heavy bullets is that the brass grows badly, requiring an almost per shot trimming for best accuracy.

I developed a lot of data on the 32-20, 30-20 and 30 Carbine while researching the article "Little 30s" that I wrote about the small capacity cases for the IHMSA News. I also designed, built and made a 30 Caliber DW Revolver on a Super Mag frame. The cartridge is based on a necked up 25-20. If you study the specs on the 25-20 you may note that the case body taper is different than the 32-20 and closely resembles a rimmed 30 carbine. This is the gun and bullets for the 30 Harm, idea was to use 30 Cal rifle bullets in a revolver to use their BC. Sad part for a mfg project is that the gun was much more accurate with cast than jacketed. Wayne Smith here on this site helped me by donating some Saeco heavy bullets that worked well.
Ed

[HABCAN]

My 10" .32-20 Contender shoots the PC'd Lyman #31141 with dignity and aplomb.........not fast, but accurate and fatal.

[bobthenailer]

I have a RPM-XL single shot pistol chambered for the 30/20 ( 32/20 with a 308 bore dia ) I had excellent results using the RCBS cast 165 gr gc silhoutte boolet and 9.0 grs of surplus WW820 powder @ 1259 fps, not a max load, for a 1.25" 25 shot group at 100 yards from the bench with a 2x7 scope. this combo was top notch! I used it for many years and won a lot of matches & cash, but used a 2X leupold with a Target dot or iron sights , and shot off hand, not taco style.

Make sure your dies are for the 308 bore and neck size only ! my dies are Redding 30-20 TC dies.

[JeffinNZ]

I agree that a .30cal barrel is the way to go for a .32-20 simply based on the greater selection of projectiles and moulds.

[andym79]

If I went for a 32-20 using a 308 barrel i.e a 30-20 would I have to buy a 30-20 reamer for the Smith or could he use his 32-20 and I just need 30-20 dies?

[Willbird]

A pistol smith friend said something about using 357 maximum brass to make a rimmed 300x221 fireball. Looked like a sound idea from first glance anyway. The 300x221 and 300 whisper, and 300 blackout are very similar. Cases might be a little more durable than 32/20 cases ?? Heard some about the thin neck on 32/20.

[PositiveCaster]

I have been shooting a 22" Contender barrel in ".30-20" for over twenty years. Built by Bullberry, it stabilizes 165-grain RCBS boolits at 1100 fps just fine. I have fired 220-grain jacketed RN bullets at under 1100 fps with small charges of pistol powders and while they didn't group great, the 2" groups at 50 yards had horizontal dispersions of under 1". I never bothered to fine tune the charges to get round groups.

As as far as I can tell it has a standard .32-20 chamber. I was built before Fred went to minimum chamber specs so it is a bit larger than I like but it shoots fine, especially with bullets around 130 grains - sub-moa at 100 yards.


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[andym79]

Thanks for that, do you know what twist it is, 1:10?

how does it shot at 200 yards?

[jsizemore]

I attempted it with my TC 32-20 back in the 90's. I didn't have much luck with 10 twist barrel shooting subsonic with 200-220 gr match kings. My buddy had a Merrill 32 H&R mag (308 barrel) with an 8 twist barrel that shot 220's. The rams would bounce off the ground when hit.

[andym79]

So what is the upper limit of bullet length (weight) for a 1:10 twist out of a 32-20, 170 grain?

The 32 H&R is no bigger is it, just the 1:8 twist. I try to avoid a faster twist than 1:10, but I guess it only matters when you push them faster.

I would be using this in a full length 24" rifle so I might be able to get a bit more velocity without any more pressure, maybe enough to stabilise them!

That however would defeat the point of a whisper!

[PositiveCaster]

Yes, my barrel has a 1:10" twist. Never shot it past ~75 yards, I doubt it would group at all out at 200 yards without speeding them up a bit.

Nothing wrong with a faster twist, the SSK .300 Whisper barrels had 1:8". They were designed for heavy slow bullets up to 240 MKs and under 1100 fps. Owners reported good accuracy with lighter bullets...

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