Never have found an accurate load

[twoshotc]

Have you ever had a gun that you have never found an accurate combination of boolit, powder type or powder charge but it shot very accurately with reloaded metal jacket bullets? I have a kt sub 2000 9mm that I have not been able to get to shoot
decently. Has anyone had success with this?
thanks
charles

[Echo]

Bbl groove diameter? Boolit type? Powder type? Sized to___? I'm not familiar with the piece...

[mac60]

No experience with a Keltec sub 2000 at all. I have a convertible Blackhawk .357/9mm that shoots the 105 gr. Lee .38 cal. swc pretty well. From what I understand 9mm can be a very difficult cartridge to get to shoot well with cast. There's a sticky somewhere hereabouts regarding setting up to shoot a 9mm gun with cast.

[Dusty Bannister]

The specifics on the barrel, and the data for the loads are always nice to state. By data, that would include the alloy and bullet sized diameter to show the fit or not, in the barrel. Here is the sticky on getting set up for 9MM.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?121607-Setting-up-for-boolits-in-a-new-9mm

[W.R.Buchanan]

Have you ever had a gun that you have never found an accurate combination of boolit, powder type or powder charge but it shot very accurately with reloaded metal jacket bullets? I have a kt sub 2000 9mm that I have not been able to get to shoot
decently. Has anyone had success with this?
thanks
charles

First we need to define exactly what you would consider "Accurate" with this gun? KT Sub 2000's are not exactly noted for being "Varmint Rifles," unless you consider the two legged variety. Also will it shoot better with Factory Ammo? If so maybe that would be the way to go as it is hard to reload 9MM's and save any money.

The sights are not all that even with enhanced versions, and the gun is a Blow Back operated Semi Auto, made of plastic and steel. The barrels are not exactly match grade barrels, but more like mass produced. This is why the gun sells for $300-350.

If you want to try to shoot cast boolits in the gun then size them about .002 over the groove dia. I use primarily Copper Plated X-Treme bullets in my .40's that are sized .401 and they run well enough.

For powders try Winchester 231, Power Pistol or any of the normal powders generally used for this round. (which is just about all of them)

In the end however you are really looking for a load that runs reliably in your gun and if it will do better than 4" at 50 yards I'd consider it to be a winner.

I have one in .40 S&W and it is about that accurate, but when you consider that the cartridge in that platform is only a 100 yard cartridge to begin with, if you are 4" at 50 you'll be 8" at 100 which is still considered Battlefield Accuracy,,, IE; Pie Plate=9". With a Red Dot Sight mounted you won't be able to shoot the gun any better anyway. The gun is more about speed of target acquisition volume of fire, and getting a shot on target than Shot Placement per se' .

Anyway,,, The guns are fun for plinking and if necessary short range defensive purposes but don't expect real rifle accuracy cuz it just isn't there. I find that most people really need to understand the "Context" of a gun's design parameters. Some guns are made for certain purposes and others are made for different ones. None are made to do everything. A characteristic that makes a gun good for Short Range or CQB is not likely to work very well on a Hunting Rifle.

Rather than worry about something there is not much you can do about, why not find a use for the gun that fills a need you have. If you can't find that need, then sell the thing and I assure you that they are not a hard gun to sell, and usually for more than you paid.

Randy

[Blackwater]

Accuracy with cast or jacketed is always a matter of trial and error. Lubes matter. The guns they're shot from matter. Which bullet you use matters. OAL matters. Powders and primers can matter. Lots of things to try, and going with a given manual's specs doesn't always prove to be what works in any individual gun for a host of reasons. You've done your initial tests, and found what didn't work in that gun, so now it's time to start varying things one variable at a time, and let the gun tell you what it wants in order to group well. I'd suspect the lube, bullet diameter and OAL would be good places to start your tests. 10 rds. should tell you pretty definitively what matters to your gun and what doesn't. If you're getting leading, I'd try a different lube, then bullet diameter, then the other stuff. And BTW, different powders will give different pressures even though they may give the same velocity. Generally, the slower burning powders will produce a given velocity but at lower pressures than the faster powders will. That's a generalization, and like all generalizations, isn't always true, but is still a general tendency. These things are why we have loading manuals that give us all sorts of specs for their tests. As you try different things, be SURE to record them for later reference! No profit in repeating stuff you've already done, and the only way to prevent that is to keep good records. Spiral bound notebooks or anything similar works great, and in time, you'll have a wealth of info stored in those books. And it takes so little time to do this that it's really backing up not to.

Any suggestion here are just guesses, but there's a lot of knowledge and experience here, and it's the experience here that might help you most. Just look at how many posts these guys have under their handles listed, and the more posts, the more likely they are to have good info to help you with. But again, like all "general rules," there's no guarantee, because like I said, it's all a guess until you pull the trigger and measure the groups. That's always going to be the final test of any load in any gun. Good luck, and don't get discouraged. First time outs not proving out well are common, even among some of our best here.

[Thumbcocker]

Exactly why me nd the .45 colt parted company. Never could get 2 revolvers to shoot for beans after cylinder reaming different molds and lots of powder combinations.

[tazman]

I owned one of the Chiappa 9mm carbines. I had difficulty getting it to shoot well with cast also. What finally worked for me was heavy boolits. 145 grain or heavier shot well. Anything small was a waste of time.
I put a red dot on mine and could get quarter size groups at 25 yards with it. I never shot it farther than that.

[GhostHawk]

Been there done that, recently, both in 9mm. One was a Hipoint C9 pistol that did fine with jwords but shot patterns and keyholed with anything under .357. The other is a Handi rifle with a stub job in 9mm in an old 12 gauge barrel.

Enter the Lee 6 cavity .358 124 mold. Loaded as cast (average was closer to .360)

No keyholes, no pattern, groups pulled into 2 inches at 20 feet and was still reasonably accurate at 25 yards.
Not that I expect MOA from a 9mm.

It can be done, I screwed sizing die out and kept coming down 1/3 of a turn until the primers all started dropping free and locked it up there. I wanted to keep that brass as big as possible.

The bullet is fairly short so I have experienced no chamber problems.

When I was done the handi rifle would hold about a 1.5" group at 50 yards which is good enough to kill most rabbits, coons I'm likely to see. Has one of those simmons pro diamond 4 power scopes on it. Nice light little woods walking rifle and a nice companion piece to the Hipoint C9. Has as good as or better accuracy than the 995 carbine but it does cycle a bit slower. :)

[mcdaniel.mac]

Been there done that, recently, both in 9mm. One was a Hipoint C9 pistol that did fine with jwords but shot patterns and keyholed with anything under .357. The other is a Handi rifle with a stub job in 9mm in an old 12 gauge barrel.

Enter the Lee 6 cavity .358 124 mold. Loaded as cast (average was closer to .360)

No keyholes, no pattern, groups pulled into 2 inches at 20 feet and was still reasonably accurate at 25 yards.
Not that I expect MOA from a 9mm.

It can be done, I screwed sizing die out and kept coming down 1/3 of a turn until the primers all started dropping free and locked it up there. I wanted to keep that brass as big as possible.

The bullet is fairly short so I have experienced no chamber problems.

When I was done the handi rifle would hold about a 1.5" group at 50 yards which is good enough to kill most rabbits, coons I'm likely to see. Has one of those simmons pro diamond 4 power scopes on it. Nice light little woods walking rifle and a nice companion piece to the Hipoint C9. Has as good as or better accuracy than the 995 carbine but it does cycle a bit slower. :)
You know I never considered it before, but if/when (when, let's be serious) I start goofing around with 9mm, a HiPoint pistol wouldn't be a bad investment as a test gun. Yeah, they're hot garbage, but they're hard to blow up from what I've seen, and cheaper than anything similar. Put the frame in a beefy vice and pull the string!

[runfiverun]

buy you one of their carbines.
size to 358 and try to find something it won't shoot.

the 9mm can be a little finicky, size, bhn, and drive band length can dictate success or failure.
you can easily get those close-nuff and screw it all up by reloading cast like it's cheap jacketed replacement fodder.
you have to pay attention to diameters and relationships between your die set and your goal.
the goal being to get a 358 diameter 130ishgr boolit in your barrel and accelerate it to about 950 fps or so.

[GhostHawk]

Exactly so. New ones run 150$ or thereabouts. Mine was a pawn shop find and cost me 100$ even.

Now that was well worth while as a cheap car/truck gun and it was worthwhile buying enough factory ammo for a while to feed it.

But of course that challenge stands back there in a corner of your mind. Eventually I had to see if I could lick it.

I have fired mine with everything from 3 grains of Red Dot below a 158 grain boolit. To 4.5 grains of Red Dot behind a 124 grain bullet. That one will wake you up. And I would hate to be on the receiving end.

Given the right ammo mine is decently accurate. 8 rounds inside a coffee cup at 20 feet. On a good day a bit smaller. I have not tried it at much longer range.

I have seen the video's where Iraquivet8888 tried to blow one up. He did not manage the job in a loaded round. He had to fill the barrel with fast powder to do it.

Yes it is a little heavy, no it won't win any pretty contests. But damm, that sucker runs.



You know I never considered it before, but if/when (when, let's be serious) I start goofing around with 9mm, a HiPoint pistol wouldn't be a bad investment as a test gun. Yeah, they're hot garbage, but they're hard to blow up from what I've seen, and cheaper than anything similar. Put the frame in a beefy vice and pull the string!