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mag_01
10-27-2005, 05:18 PM
:lovebooli I have decided not to load lead for the sweeds---seems like u have to run em slow because of the fast twist --- just looking for reasons I should load lead---any good tales in this venture--- love the Sweeds with jackets----convince me that they will shoot lead well---thx. Mag. :)

Oldfeller
10-27-2005, 06:17 PM
Smart decision -- shoot 7mm Soup Cans, not bitchy Swedes if you want a good shooting easy-do light cast bullet gun. Or better yet, get you a 30-30 cast bullet shooting type gun.

Much much more forgiving ......

Oldfeller


(yeah, I got people trying to find a cruise missile mold -- go to Midsouth and go ahead and get your dose of "advanced Cast Bullet edumcational material".

45 2.1
10-27-2005, 07:05 PM
Don't listen to Oldfeller, he's half blind and half old. Can't see to shoot those wonderfull Swedes well. Honest, loaded right, they shoot very well. Tip, use a shorter boolit.

Oldfeller
10-27-2005, 09:06 PM
Ah, how sharper than a serpent's tooth -- the truth as told by a friend.

Still, there are other calibers that are noted as being "cast friendly" (30 calibers and 8mm calibers and 35 calibers and 45 calibers) -- and the 6.5 swede is noted by more than just me as being "an advanced education" in casting, sizing and shooting techniques.

Hey, now that I got me an adjustable end-bell scope, maybe I'm not so durn blind anymore ...

Now Bob, what sort of group sizes did you get with the 6.5 Kurtz slug? You got me curious now.

Oldfeller

45 2.1
10-27-2005, 09:20 PM
I haven't shot the Kurtz yet Kelly. I've shot the Lyman 122 gr. and the cruise missle along with some really old Lyman numbers. As to groups, i'm shooting two M-96s and 3 M-38s with the cruise going into 9/16" for three shots at 100 yds from the bench from all of them. Sometimes the 96s do a little worse, but the 38s seem to like them most all the time. There are some tricks here to help seeing correctly and some with loading, but that might be for another time.

Oldfeller
10-27-2005, 09:35 PM
As I have often complained, you, Buckshot, Sundog, Maven, Bruce B, Starmetal Joe (and others) all outshoot me regularly with Karlina and the cruise. Disgusting all these sub-minute of angle groups you guys keep shooting at speeds that would penetrate 2-3 deer with the cruiser if you could get them to line up side to side to have their portrait taken.

smile, ladies and watch the muzzle flash ..... <pow>

and now you gone and said that I was half-old too. You ain't gonna tell them I'm half bald too are you?

I can't take but so much truth in one day you know.

Oldfeller

StarMetal
10-27-2005, 10:01 PM
Kelly,

Take me out of that list, my shooting doesn't count because my Karlina isn't like the ones you fellows are dating, mine has less curves remember, 1 in 9. Now the one you fellows have, is built like a brick gunhouse!!

Joe

mag_01
10-27-2005, 11:38 PM
:coffeecom ---- Hay guys thx. for the input and the entertainment---I do shoot lead in 30-30---308----7.62x54R---and 303---the 30-30- and 308 are lead friendly like u say and a pleasure to shoot---someday I will load for the 8mm---have 2 Sweeds M-96 and an M-38 and there a pleasure to shoot with jackets---keep em in the black---Mag. :razz:

Bret4207
10-29-2005, 08:09 AM
45-2.1, You can't bait us like that and jsut let it go! What are you doing to get good groups with the '38/6.5x55/Cruise Missle combo? I've got a couple hundred tied up in moulds alone. Don't leave me hanging buddy!

45 2.1
10-29-2005, 10:24 AM
45-2.1, You can't bait us like that and jsut let it go! What are you doing to get good groups with the '38/6.5x55/Cruise Missle combo? I've got a couple hundred tied up in moulds alone. Don't leave me hanging buddy!

I've posted everything you need to make any rifle shoot good in the past, with not much comment said! The trick is to fill up the neck of the chamber and the throat. Here it is Again: Take a case fired with a full load, remove any vestige of crimp and measure the inside neck diameter of the fired case; that is the size of your boolit that you want. Its nice if the nose will engrave, but NOT necessary. In all the military rifle, you can shoot wheelweights and unique at the top of its burning range for the cartridge with a soft lube. You should be VERY HAPPY with the results. 0.002" slop between the chamber neck and the loaded cartridge diameter won't get you much of anything. If your boolit isn't that big, you will have to reform some brass so you can get a thicker neck to take up the slop. The 6.5x55 brass put out is too small in the neck wall thickness to use. I've been reforming 30-06 brass to 6.5 x 55 and turning the necks for fit for the last 25 years. Its about the only way to get these kind of groups in the 6.5 x 55.

Maven
10-29-2005, 10:26 AM
All, the 6.5 Kurtz does very well from "Helga" (Karlina's better behaved 2nd cousin) but at ~1,650fps as Oldfeller said. The only trick is to size it nose first, apply the gas check and then size and lube it normally. Btw, if you frequent E-Bay, you'll occasionally find a Lee single cav. custom mold that looks like a miniature version of Lyman's #311041. It too is very accurate, albeit at ~1,650fps. I've been using 14gr. WC 820 lately (Sundog thinks I used it for everything, even seasoning my food with it!) with complete satisfaction.

felix
10-29-2005, 11:06 AM
There can be as much as 0.002 springback difference between new and used cases. It is actually better to measure loaded neck diameter, and make a boolit in diameter to cause nothing more than 0.001 total clearance between the boolit in the case and the chamber total neck area. In a straight walled case, the case neck is defined to be the total length of the boolit within the case. If you get any kind a case stretching, you have three choices. Turn the case neck diameter down, make a smaller boolit, or decrease the speed of the powder. ... felix

45 2.1
10-29-2005, 12:52 PM
0.002" springback can happen. When you measure, it should seem like your cutting metal on the inside of the neck when your turning it. A hard turn on the caliper blades, as long as it turns. A bullet that size will not slip fit in the case if you've done it right and allow for that springback..

felix
10-29-2005, 02:32 PM
That's a good fit, Bob. Any slip into a fired case means the boolit is too small for sure. Shouldn't even be a hint of a slip into the case, unless that case is completely worn out which shouldn't be used without some kind of anneal. A proper anneal will bring back that springback. We are talking modern case material here, not that WWI stuff you guys are talking about. ... felix

StarMetal
10-29-2005, 03:34 PM
Felix

That's exactly what is wrong with my Remington 260 brass. Bought it new and it only takes about 2-3 firings and there is no neck tension at all. I'm not sure annealing would fix this junk. Neck tension, or lack there of, has been one of the accuracy problems of my 260 with cast loads.

Joe

Oldfeller
10-29-2005, 04:40 PM
Bob, that's being just plain cruel you know.

It's bad enough that your bullet is big enough to choke the swedish ladies throats, but to force it in big enough to expand & swell up their entire neck like that -- that's almost cruelty to foreign persons.

Doesn't that result in excessive back pressure when you fire your load? Have you ever split one of their necks wide open upon firing doing a trick like that?

But good personal results are what counts, I guess.

You certainly go past being a "throat choker" into entire new realms of using the end of the chamber neck bevel and the entire throat as a bullet re-sizing die.

Only gun I have that does that sort of neck expanding trick is the .338" full-sized Boxcar slug going into the .329" Steyr 8x56's neck & throat. But that old camp follower has a oversized tapered throat that can swallow it all on down very very easily (she can swallow on down a .338 soft cored jacketed slug "au natural" too, but don't tell anybody else about it as my old girl has been lapped out a wee bit (.333") and most have not been lapped at all).

Oldfeller

45 2.1
10-29-2005, 06:07 PM
Kelly-

You're the one who has been saying shes a dominatrix. I'm just turning the tables and making her behave.

Oldfeller
10-29-2005, 06:35 PM
Just watch out for that blasted braided leather riding crop she likes to carry ....

<g>

Buckshot
10-30-2005, 10:01 AM
............I had decided the other day it was about time to try out the 6.5 Kurtz. But first I had to cast some up. I broke out the mould and checked it all over. Flushed and brushed with carb cleaner. Warmed it a bit on the pot as the first alloy batch was coming up to temp. Lubed it all up and lightly smoked the cavities.

Poured and dumped 2 loads into the spruebox and then began dumping into the keeper box. These first were cast frosty and I was using a 14BHN alloy. Naked they were 132grs and miked .2684". I cast up about 14 lbs of the beggers.

Next up was the rest of that pot sweetened with some Lino and 2oz's of tin for a 17 bhn alloy. I cast the pot down again and have about the same amount of boolits. I tossed one on the scale pan and it comes in at 129gr and mikes .2693" so it grew about a thou.

After doing those 2 batches I again added more lino and another ounce of tin and have an alloy a bit over an indicated 21bhn. I had other stuff to do so it's in the pot and I haven't cast any of'em up yet. I'll probably lose another couple grains and gain a thou in diameter.

The 6.5's I have to check them out in is a M91/38 Carcano Moshetto TS, 2 x M96's, M38, M96/38, and a M94. Powder of choice to start with will be WC872. Probably a couple weeks off right.

..............Buckshot

Oldfeller
10-30-2005, 10:34 AM
Ok, I'll cast some up too ....

Bunch of gluttons for punishment, that's what we all are.

<g>

Oldfeller

borderman
11-03-2005, 03:38 PM
I have several cast from the 6.5 Kurz group buy and also from the Karlina from MidSouth. The short boolits run right at .270 and the Karlina runs .269 with water quenched wheel weights. Neither will chamber in any of my Swedes, so I need to size. What diameter do you recommend? I see that Lyman has a die at .266 but I will be purchasing a custom Lee die. My RCBS sizer is too frustrating and I don't need that right now. Does .266 seem reasonable? I haven't tried to slug the barrels yet - wouldn't trust the measurements if I did, those sinkers are too short.

Oldfeller
11-03-2005, 06:34 PM
Cast one of the Kurtz and put it behind of one of the cruise missiles and drive the matched set pair on into your rifles throat. Cruise goes in first, pointy end forward.

The stacked set is big enough to get an impression of your throat from rifling to case mouth.

Lots of folks size cruise missiles at .268" because it is so long it reaches quite deep into the throat. The Kurtz needs to be sized .269"-.270" as it is a lot shorter as seated in the case neck.

Oldfeller

45 2.1
11-11-2005, 08:33 AM
Here is something for you more adventurous types. Paper patch 25 caliber rifle slugs (PB types work better here) up for the Swede. You have from 60 gr. up to 120 gr. to try. Cast of soft alloy patched with onionskin paper, they patch to the correct diameter, they are short to not incure the dreaded "Oldfeller tumbles" and shoot very well, plus they can go fast too.

Bullshop
11-11-2005, 02:23 PM
Here is something for you more adventurous types. Paper patch 25 caliber rifle slugs (PB types work better here) up for the Swede. You have from 60 gr. up to 120 gr. to try. Cast of soft alloy patched with onionskin paper, they patch to the correct diameter, they are short to not incure the dreaded "Oldfeller tumbles" and shoot very well, plus they can go fast too.
45 2.1
Another thing to try is the base band boolit. I think this was mentioned in The Bullets Flight by Dr. Mann. Use a bore diameter boolit for 6.5 cal (257) and crimp on a 6.5 cal check. For 25 cal PB use a 270 cal check. This makes a full bore ride boolit with a base band seal. I think Dr. Mann was trying for higher velocity with jacket by reducing barrel friction. he also learned alot about obturation from this. Seat just the check in the case and single load to the chamber, this works like a breach seated boolit.
BIC/BS

45 2.1
11-11-2005, 02:48 PM
45 2.1
Another thing to try is the base band boolit. I think this was mentioned in The Bullets Flight by Dr. Mann. Use a bore diameter boolit for 6.5 cal (257) and crimp on a 6.5 cal check. For 25 cal PB use a 270 cal check. This makes a full bore ride boolit with a base band seal. I think Dr. Mann was trying for higher velocity with jacket by reducing barrel friction. he also learned alot about obturation from this. Seat just the check in the case and single load to the chamber, this works like a breach seated boolit.
BIC/BS

Tried it long ago. Works well at the bench, but not really substantial in your pocket for the field.

waksupi
11-12-2005, 12:05 AM
You guys just starting in experimenting with the Swede. You be sure to let us know what you learn, ya hear? There are a few here with plenty of "time in grade" on that caliber, and we will be plumb tickled if you come up with something new.

Oldfeller
11-12-2005, 12:13 AM
Karlina, the cast bullet person's graduate level course from Hell. She won't ever let you finish the course, much less pass it ....

<g>

Oldfeller

45 2.1
11-12-2005, 09:07 AM
Karlina, the cast bullet person's graduate level course from Hell. She won't ever let you finish the course, much less pass it ....

<g>

Oldfeller

********!

Buckshot
11-12-2005, 09:33 AM
..............You guys are way too hard on the old girl :D Just for fun one time several years ago I sized up some Lyman 268645's at .264" and from the same batch at .266". I had already been well edjumakated as to her wiles re: velocity, and this was just a daydreaming at the loading bench thing. High velocity being a well known no-no. Wouldn't cost much, was a low energy project with limited worthwhile results being the reward.

At the time I had a Tasco 4X peetol scout mounted on a practicly unissued 38 with a 1-6.48 buttdisc. So equiped I felt that an effort at 100 yards would be a good test. And 10 rounds each to boot, to use up the space in a 20 round slip top box.

You know those sized at .264" outshot the fatter .266"? Not by a huge margin but naked eye visible. No caliper required. I showed the target to one of the other Burritoistas afflicted with the Swede social illness. His remark to me was, "You mean I need to go and buy a .264" sizer?" Of course this was only 10 rounds each and no followup ever. Unscaled slugs, thrown charges, etc.

In case you wondered, the groups were both about 1.5" for 7-8 rounds and maybe 2" total, but the .266" group was decidedly a bit more vertical and had a couple that acted like they didn't want to clan up.

http://www.fototime.com/ED85D15612B17F9/standard.jpg
Not that test, but you can't tell me these are bad? Unscaled slugs from an issue military rifle, issue sights and trigger. Heck 2 of the groups were sub 3/4" and the worst was loose powder stripped and fired from the magazine.

..............Buckshot

Oldfeller
11-12-2005, 10:06 AM
Now Bob, when you go "********" like that you know you got to post your high speed neck choking groups to back 'er up. And I know you like to shoot at 100 yards with larger group counts so they should be very edumacational viewing as there ARE some other folks trying out your tricks, seeking the elusive goal you have set out before us.

Anything to beat the bitch .... you know that.

Now some number of folks have done very well with the Swede at 1,650 fps and I don't argue that at all. There are a dozen or more who have posted great low speed groups over the years. Lots with the long slug too.

Joe is the ONLY one to post a 100 yard group over 2000 fps group, but he's shooting a nine twist rate barrel gun. Bruce B. got right on up to 1,850-1,900 with his 9 twist barrel as well. Buckshot has posted several over 2200 fps groups at 50 yards, some with the potential to become a winner at 100 no less. But he doesn't shoot much at 100 yards.

Yeah, 2,040 fps out of a 7.5 twist gun -- 1 minute at 100 yards. I'd be happy to see it done three times running using honest cast and sized bullets.

And it doesn't matter who does it, either. I know with my eyes going to **** it isn't going to be me -- so why not you? You bought Buckshot's Lyman 122 grain hollow point mold off of him, so give her a spin ....

Tell you what, jest go do it to make us all happy and I'll call Grafs about setting up those ****ty LEE six banger molds on 25 count discounted mold runs.

Kelly

P.S. You got Buckshot, who sizes to .264" bore diameter exacty to get his best groups. You got Bob, who supersizes (.270" plus?) to swell her whole durn neck up to the point of bursting to get his best accuracy.

Got to be some good new stuff to come out of this here little post-train, yep, good stuff to learn.

45 2.1
11-12-2005, 11:19 AM
P.S. You got Buckshot, who sizes to .264" bore diameter exacty to get his best groups. You got Bob, who supersizes (.270" plus?) to swell her whole durn neck up to the point of bursting to get his best accuracy.

Got to be some good new stuff to come out of this here little post-train, yep, good stuff to learn.

I didn't post about best accuracy Kelly, I answered your question about what I got with the cruise, remember. I do shoot 0.264" bullets also and they do shoot better at low velocity than the cruise. Pay attention to what Felix has been telling you about twist. Ask him again what maximum length bullet will give you 2000 fps out of the 7.5" twist.

felix
11-12-2005, 11:55 AM
1.4 inches lino, 1.5 inches WW, both with 0.5 inch tangential nose, 50 percent meplat, at 7.5 twist in 264 caliber. ... felix

45 2.1
11-12-2005, 12:31 PM
Thanks Felix, but the Kurtz and Lyman are about 0.950" long. That and shorter will do the job at higher velocities. Most of you guys bought the 25 cal special order molds, try PP or a tape patch in your 6.5.

StarMetal
11-12-2005, 12:34 PM
I've been telling you rocket scientists that's for years I shot EXCELLENT groups at 100 yards out of alot of rifles with cast bullets sized to exact bore size. One noteable caliber was 7x57 Mauser and the bullet was the Lyman 150 gr gascheck Loverin. I had two 7x57 rifles that would shoot that bullet, at speed, into one, carpetman ONE ONE, ragged 3/4 10 shot hole at 100 yards with the bullet sized at .284.....they both were new modern producton rifles with the bore groove right on .284. One was a Mod 70 Win and the other a Mark X Mauser. Yeah, alot of rifle will respond better to fitting the bullet to the throat but it's not the holy grail to success.

You fellows are going to force me to buy a Swede as much as I don't want too. Jumptrap..you got an extra Swede in good shape????

Joe

felix
11-12-2005, 12:48 PM
11 twist for rounded wadcutter (80 percent at 0.1 length) at 0.95 inch total. ... felix

Oldfeller
11-12-2005, 01:04 PM
Nice dodge, Bob -- ringing in Felix like that. (keeps folks from pulling back that curtain over in the corner, it does) Problem is I'm not so easily distracted.

So, your "********" response involves shooting slower fps bullets. You don't tell us what length, you bounce it off to Felix to answer. Heck, they ain't even necessarily your huge patented "neck swellers" in diameter, you "also shoot .264" diameter".

I can smell the smoke, where are them mirrors located again?

Now, given that you can outshoot me -- an easy do BTW -- can you really beat the bitch? You claimed to have done so and you told Joe your tricks and he verified them and actually got over 2,000 fps with his 9 twist gun. But when asked for details you say "swell the necks" then you say you also shoot bore wall diameter?

But that isn't Karlina or any of her 7.5 twist swedish cousins, is it? You also shoot a WIDE VARIETY of 6.5 rifles (you do have a mil-surp collection that I envy, BTW).

But, the 7.5 twist Swedish bitch still stands ..... doesn't she?

P.S. Felix, in a 7.5 twist Swede a 1.4" long .264" diameter bullet would likely get dizzy around 1,532 fps.
A 1.5" long .264" diameter bullet would likely get dizzy around 1,430 fps.

Nobody has any slugs that long to try out, so I guess both Felix and I are safe as nobody can reality check either sets of our numbers. So much for numbers game -- in reality folks can't get 140 grain bullets to go faster than 1,800-1,900 fps accurately in a Swede either. Buckshot's best slugs are the shorter ones, way shorter.

Hence the origins of the CBI index which can predict the 6.5 caliber pretty durn well since it was built using 6.5 caliber data (and it can predict other calibers fairly good -- if you hold your mouth right)

As a group verified knowledge thing "real type known thing", the only solution seen for increasing swede speed is to shorten the slug. Shorten it a lot. There were two drawings for the 6.5mm Kurtz, remember -- one was shorter -- about the exact same length as the 7mm Soup Can slug as a matter of fact. Buckshot actually built the longer one, now didn't he?

Now, as much as I liked chasing Swedish skirts I now have a 9.5 twist gun shooting a larger diameter (stronger) 7mm slug. I am planning a short as **** bore wall riding bullet for it. (CBI says it gets dizzy at 3,300 fps)

I am fishing to catch fish -- not just drown worms.

I think I am fishing in the right pool too. I ain't chasing after fickle 6.5 sweeds nor fixing up built-to-be-crap LEE molds any more -- life is too short, go after things you can actually get to work for you.

<g>

Oldfeller

StarMetal
11-12-2005, 01:09 PM
Guys,

I did this pic real quick to get it in here on time. This is a chart for 6.5 jacketed bullets that Rick Jamison made up for a 260 Rem article in Shooting Times. I thought it migh be appropiate.

Joe

http://www.hunt101.com/watermark.php?file=500/7385chart.JPG

StarMetal
11-12-2005, 01:15 PM
For more information here Oldfeller sent me some of his loooong cruise missiles a good while back. I did manage to get "some" grouping from them at a certain velocity, but the interesting thing that popped Oldfellers eyebrows was when I slowed them down....they 100 percent keyholed at 1350 fps!!!!!!!

Oldfeller,

Bob really didn't give me any secret, secret tips on loading that 6.5 260 Rem. Main thing was the bullets he sent were of a specific alloy blend for one thing,they were sized .265 for my .264 barrel, and he was telling me which way to go with the powder charges as I sent along information to him. See, nothing rocket science.

You have a 6.5 Swede you could loan me? I'm positive I could get results from it.

Joe

45 2.1
11-12-2005, 02:03 PM
Nice dodge, Bob -- ringing in Felix like that. (keeps folks from pulling back that curtain over in the corner, it does) Problem is I'm not so easily distracted.

Think so huh?

So, your "********" response involves shooting slower fps bullets. No You don't tell us what length, you bounce it off to Felix to answer. RCBS 264-140-FN Heck, they ain't even necessarily your huge patented "neck swellers" in diameter, you "also shoot .264" diameter". No

I can smell the smoke, where are them mirrors located again?

There all at your house!

Now, given that you can outshoot me -- an easy do BTW -- can you really beat the bitch? You have her up with a whip, i've got her on her hands and knees! You claimed to have done so and you told Joe your tricks and he verified them and actually got over 2,000 fps with his 9 twist gun. But when asked for details you say "swell the necks" then you say you also shoot bore wall diameter? Bore? How about groove plus But that isn't Karlina or any of her 7.5 twist swedish cousins, is it? Wrong again You also shoot a WIDE VARIETY of 6.5 rifles (you do have a mil-surp collection that I envy, BTW). Thank You, but the 6.5 Jap long rifles and Carcanos are much harder to get to shoot than Karlina.

But, the 7.5 twist Swedish bitch still stands ..... doesn't she?

Nope, still on her hands and knees.

P.S. Felix, in a 7.5 twist Swede a 1.4" long .264" diameter bullet would likely get dizzy around 1,532 fps.
A 1.5" long .264" diameter bullet would likely get dizzy around 1,430 fps.

Those numbers just don't look right to me.

Nobody has any slugs that long to try out, so I guess both Felix and I are safe as nobody can reality check either sets of our numbers. So much for numbers game -- in reality folks can't get 140 grain bullets to go faster than 1,800-1,900 fps accurately in a Swede either. Buckshot's best slugs are the shorter ones, way shorter.

And I have shorter ones still.

Hence the origins of the CBI index which can predict the 6.5 caliber pretty durn well since it was built using 6.5 caliber data (and it can predict other calibers fairly good -- if you hold your mouth right)

As a group verified knowledge thing "real type known thing", the only solution seen for increasing swede speed is to shorten the slug. Shorten it a lot. There were two drawings for the 6.5mm Kurtz, remember -- one was shorter -- about the exact same length as the 7mm Soup Can slug as a matter of fact. Buckshot actually built the longer one, now didn't he?

He honcho'd one of six like designs that i've played with.

Now, as much as I liked chasing Swedish skirts I now have a 9.5 twist gun shooting a larger diameter (stronger) 7mm slug. I am planning a short as **** bore wall riding bullet for it. (CBI says it gets dizzy at 3,300 fps)

I am fishing to catch fish -- not just drown worms.

I think I am fishing in the right pool too. I ain't chasing after fickle 6.5 sweeds nor fixing up built-to-be-crap LEE molds any more -- life is too short, go after things you can actually get to work for you.

Methodology

45 2.1
11-12-2005, 02:16 PM
Oldfeller,

Bob really didn't give me any secret, secret tips on loading that 6.5 260 Rem. Main thing was the bullets he sent were of a specific alloy blend for one thing,they were sized .265 for my .264 barrel, and he was telling me which way to go with the powder charges as I sent along information to him. See, nothing rocket science.

You have a 6.5 Swede you could loan me? I'm positive I could get results from it.

And I believe Joe could get it done with the Kurtz in the Swede also. He is a good experimenter. But if you remember, he had given up on cast in his 260 before this happened. Sometimes it is really important to know exactly what is wrong and what direction to take! Alot of you don't want to be told how to do something, so you are getting your wish.

StarMetal
11-12-2005, 02:22 PM
I had naturally assumed, after much reading the threads here on the 6.5 Swede, that I wasn't going to get my 260 to shoot cast. I was making the assumption that the problem was on the caliber of the cartridge (6.5) not the rifling twist of the barrels used.

Oldfeller gives me too much credit for the 260 in all this 6.5 talk, but you fellows have to realize my twist in that 260 is 1 in 9, that's alot slower then the Swede with it's what, 1 in 7.5 twist, or is it even faster like 1 in 6.75?

Now I have done some fair shooting with my AR15 using cast and the twist on it is 1 in 7.

Joe

waksupi
11-12-2005, 03:47 PM
Joe, I have an extra M38, in a composite stock, that is D&T'ed for scope mounts. I've been thinking on peddling it, since I'm kinda top heavy on Swedes. If you want to haggle, give me a PM. Got a C&R, or FFL?

Dutchman
12-07-2005, 04:50 PM
But, the 7.5 twist Swedish bitch still stands .....
Oldfeller

As much as I'm enjoying reading this forum and learning I just about choked reading the above. Swedish bitch? :Fire: Them's fightin' words!!!

My beloved Karlina is anything but.... <sigh>.

Dutchman
www.rebooty.com/~dutchman
House of Karlina - Swedish Mausers

waksupi
12-07-2005, 08:59 PM
As much as I'm enjoying reading this forum and learning I just about choked reading the above. Swedish bitch? :Fire: Them's fightin' words!!!

My beloved Karlina is anything but.... <sigh>.

Dutchman
www.rebooty.com/~dutchman
House of Karlina - Swedish Mausers

Dutchman, she's the bitch we love to hate. Tried cast bullets in them yet? Then you can join our lonely hearts club.

45 2.1
12-07-2005, 09:11 PM
As much as I'm enjoying reading this forum and learning I just about choked reading the above. Swedish bitch? :Fire: Them's fightin' words!!!

My beloved Karlina is anything but.... <sigh>.

Dutchman
www.rebooty.com/~dutchman (http://www.rebooty.com/~dutchman)
House of Karlina - Swedish Mausers

Dutchman-
The problem is that they haven't learned how to treat a Swedish gal yet. Interesting gals, but different.

Dutchman
12-08-2005, 03:36 PM
Dutchman, she's the bitch we love to hate. Tried cast bullets in them yet? Then you can join our lonely hearts club.

I've been delving into cast rifle loading the last couple years with bullets from Wayne Doudna in Wisconsin. The 6.5 bullets I've tried are from Leadhead in Kansas and I can't say I've been pleased with them. They're 130gr Louverin g/c. Not getting what I want using Unique. The Doudna bullets are the same mold but I haven't finished the Leadhead slugs yet. I doubt the Doudna bullets will be much better. Not all rifles shoot well with cast bullets, which is what you all find out as you trudge along:-) I have two rifles that have done exemplary with Doudna 200gr RN g/c .311 bullets. The 1891 Argentine rifle and a Finn m/91 Mosin with a new B-marked barrel. Both loaded with 12grs Unique produced ragged 5 shot, one hole groups at 50 yds and surprised the heck outta me. I have some test rds loaded in 7.62x54R and .303 Brit using the same 200gr RN bullets...er....boolits but the weather went too cold to try them yet. I intend on using these 200gr in .30-06 in the 1903 Springfield, 7.5x55 in the 1896/11 & K31 and M1917, P14, etc etc. I'm hoping it'll prove itself to be the universal salvation of cast bullets in all my .308/.311" rifles.

I suspect the 6.5x55 needs a loooong heavy cast bullet to shoot well but I haven't found a supplier yet. I don't really want to get back into casting my own again.

Dutchman

Jumptrap
12-08-2005, 05:01 PM
Dutchman,

We feel your pain, but unless you're a glutton for punishment, take some time to read past posts here about trying to get a Swede to put out....the harder you try, the tighter her legs go together.

Wayne Doudna....I haven't seen his name in print for a long time....seems I sold him one of the custom 6.5 moulds I had Lee make a few years ago.

The Swedish twist rate is too damned steep and the cast bullets refuse to cooperate when the velocities exceed 1500-1600 fps. yes, they are wonderfully accurate rifles when fed jacketed bullets.....I still have a 96 and a 38..out of maybe 20 that passed through my hands. You may have your doubts or just have to prove it to yourself......but no cast bullet, long, short, blunt, pointy....will ever be a happy mix in a fast twist barrel. I wanted to shoot cast in my Swedes very badly and I tried everything I knew and what more than a few suggested....all to no avail. None of us here will claim to be a know-it-all...some pretend to be heirs to the Throne..hehe....but we as a combined group have exhausted our wits trying to milk something of reasonable accuracy using cast in a Swede and have met defeat. IF, the twist rate was slower...9" or 10", I am satisfied the results would be entirely different, as Joe mentions in his 260 with 9" twist. Either content yourself with low velocity loads or abandon ship. And one other thing......treat yourself to the joys of slow powders used with cast bullets. The old theory of using fast numbers has pretty much been debunked. Since it is becoming common knowledge to fit the bullet to the throat, no longer is it necessary to bump the ass end of the bullet up with a fast powder to fill the throat/bore as was suggested in yesteryear.

Dutchman
12-08-2005, 06:55 PM
The Swedish twist rate is too damned steep and the cast bullets refuse to cooperate when the velocities exceed 1500-1600 fps.

I'm not trying to make gofast cast bullets in the Swede. I'd be happy with 1400 fps (and accurate). Even 1300 fps if accurate. I have other rifles for gofast bullets. Fact is most of my cast bullet loading would fall in the 1400-1800 fps range. Looks like I'll reduce my 12gr Unique loads and see what happens at 50 yds. I may be stubborn but I'm not stoooopid. If youse all haven't had good luck with cast in 6.5 I'm not gonna beat my head against the wall trying. Lots of other rifles to play with and leave the Swedes for jacketed. I'd prefer using Unique & 2400 for cast.

Dutchman

waksupi
12-08-2005, 08:56 PM
I'm not trying to make gofast cast bullets in the Swede. I'd be happy with 1400 fps (and accurate). Even 1300 fps if accurate. I have other rifles for gofast bullets. Fact is most of my cast bullet loading would fall in the 1400-1800 fps range. Looks like I'll reduce my 12gr Unique loads and see what happens at 50 yds. I may be stubborn but I'm not stoooopid. If youse all haven't had good luck with cast in 6.5 I'm not gonna beat my head against the wall trying. Lots of other rifles to play with and leave the Swedes for jacketed. I'd prefer using Unique & 2400 for cast.

Dutchman

We didn't saY THEY WOULDN'T SHOOT WELL. iT JUST TAKES SOME MONKEYING AROUND WITH THEM, TO GET THEM PERcolating correctly.