Lyman 452423 HP...single cavity...new to me..."Any suggestions?"

[OS OK]

174791

I'm thinking of using about 10 BHN using COWW that has been softened with pure lead. I can enrichen with more Sn if it's suggested...but...
before I get started I'd like a few suggestions on the proper technique for using a mold with the pin in the bottom.
I use a 1,200 watt hot plate with saw blade to heat the mold, but do I heat the pin separately or leave it in the mold and roll the mold onto it's side or what?
All my gang and two holer molds are aluminum so steel is new also...any tips on cleaning or smoking or not...help?
I'd like to cast great HP's right out of the gate...help?

Thanks for your time to input...charlie

[Mk42gunner]

1. Keep the pin hot. if it isn't in the blocks, it needs to be heating. I used a wire frame that held it in the flame (low) of a propane torch.

2. Pull the pin before you cut the sprue. Few things are as annoying as trying to get a stuck HP pin out of a freely spinning boolit that is still in the mold.

3. With the tiny blocks, you will probably be walking a fine line between too hot and too cold. Find the right cadence and cast until you are satisfied.

4. I would clean the mold and pin, but I wouldn't smoke them.

Hope this helps. If you get too fed up with it, you could send it too me for storage. I wouldn't even charge you very much.

Robert

[45-70 Chevroner]

I've never used a hollow point mold with a removable pin, I have used a Lyman 45-70 hollow point mold with the pin permanently attached and it was very easy to mold with. I would guess that the pin would heat up very nicely with it in place, the hot lead should heat it up very quickly. Your alloy mix will depend on your loads. In my Rugers ( 45 colt Vaqueros) I shoot mostly light loads and a little bit of sn is all that's need.

[runfiverun]

put a little radius on the edge of the pin.
keep it hot.... no a little hotter.
don't be dilly dallying.

[OS OK]

Thanks fellas...it was the pin that I was concerned with primarily, gunner, you gave me the idea to put something on the skill saw blade that I can sit the pin in when it's out of the blocks. Someone's already radiused the pin it's not noticeable in the pic. though.
The other issue of it being so small, I imagine that the cadence will be quite different from a big 6 holer aluminum.

I'm going to find out in a little while.

[Nueces]

Another way - the last time I cast with a single pin Lyman small block mould, I wore Nomex/kid skin flying gloves. I would open the blocks, remove the boolit by grasping the pin handle, then twist the boolit off the pin. The moulds were 457122 and 429421HP.

[Strtspdlx]

If you don't mind cub could you post a picture of finished product? I saw these molds forsale and didn't buy one because I was unsure of nose profile and driving bands. It's hard to tell that from an inverted dark picture.

[OS OK]

Will do, I'll post later today...hope the results aren't too embarrassing!
Nueces...I was hoping to get by with only one glove...hate to wear them. Going to try pulling the pin (hope it don't explode) before cutting the sprue.

[runfiverun]

sometimes coating the pin with some of that graphite based drop free stuff will help things go smoother.
I have seen guy's rig up a wire frame in front of a low burning torch or to dangle the pin in their casting pot to keep that pin hot.

[OS OK]

***Sorry for these gosh dang pictures fellas...4 out of 5 of them decided to do a backflip in cyberspace...I give the heck up on trying to get them to load right!

This first pic. I put an old steel clamp on the sawblade that had a 1/4'' hole in it and the pin would sit in there to stay warm.


174961

Looks like the pot stabilized at around 660* to up to 700*. It changed as I would put sprues back in and take a little break each time.
174962

At first I was pressure casting with the sprue plate touching the nozzle and the stream adjusted to max. It kept giving minimum sprues like this and less and I had a few pinholes in the bases (the top right two), mabe 10 or so total, but, I'm gonna load and shoot them just the same. I started backing off a bit to add to the sprue mass and got better results though it's a small plate.

174963

Here are the first 17 casts, right from the first they did pretty well, a few wrinkles and one incomplete nose on the bottom right and then I got this missile looking thing! I figured out that you need to replace the pin each and every time...go figure! There is some minute flashing around the opening but the interior hole is uniform...guess I got better as the mold warmed up. I was casting as fast as I could go and never got the sprue plate too hot. The pin removed without any problems also, although I did open the mold twice without pulling the pin...oops, I just closed the mold gently and pulled the pin without any problem, it twists and slides out without any effort.


174964

Here's the results of about 3 hours work from the time I put the lead in the pot to the time I finished...did plenty of looking as I went along but this is roughly 9 pounds of mix that I wanted to use and ended up with a 2 pound ingot or so...my back started aching so I girleyied out in the end.
The calculator figured if I used 40 grams of pure Sn, added to 6.5 pounds of SOWW (stick on wheel weights) to 5 pounds of COWW (clip on wheel weights) that I would get an estimated BHN of 10.1 with 1.12% tin, 1.31% antimony, .11% arsenic and 97.5% Pb. I thought that would make some nice looking casts. Incidentally the weights varied from 231.8 to 233.4 grains of the 20 that I weighted digitally.

When I finished today I Lee Tested one of the air cooled boolits at 9.8 BHN, I expect that it may increase hardness another point over the next couple days...will let you know then.

Here's my pile-O-hollow point SWC's and I'm pretty well tickled. I'm going to PC them and do them in Clear and prolly a Root Beer mix of Black and Red...well see, I may do a que-tip job of some red on a few noses just to be different. They will load in the .45 ACP and the .45 Colt. I'm going to push for about 900 FPS although 850 will be just fine as I expect these little buggers to mushroom pretty well. Will post pictures of the next go round after PC'ing and load work-ups and mushroom testing.

ANOTHER QUESTION...What do you think I oughta test them in, water filled plastic containers with denim over the front? I dunnoh...mabe some of you have an idea...but I am not going out to find/buy gelatin like the pro's use, nope, forget that.


174965

***Sorry again for the skewed up pic's fellas!

charlie

[Mk42gunner]

That's quite a pile of hollow points for your first time using that style of mold. Congratulations.

A ~230 at 850 fps sounds good to me from a .45ACP, as long as they feed in your gun.

Water might not be the trendiest thing to test bullet expansion in; but it is remarkably consistent, as long as it is liquid.

Robert

[runfiverun]

if there's a sale on lettuce at the local store one or two of those might be interesting. :lol:
you might not get your boolit back but you will get a visual.
yeah the old water jug test is consistent and the price is usually correct.
throw a couple of inches of paper in there somewhere like the front, 1-2 jugs in, and leave another 1-2 jug gap for the third set.
and you'll get a little better idea of how the field results will go.

[OS OK]

Well, I powder coated and sized up 100 rounds today, sized at .451" for the Colt 1911. Here are some shots that don't look too bad.
I did black + clear, black + red (speckled, 2'nd pic.), clear with red at meplat HP, and just clear gloss, those are the only colors I've got at the moment so this is all I could come up with.

175046175047175048

I tested the BHN again after 24 hours and it has come up from 9.8 to 10.4 now and I expect it'll rise more over the next two days or so. At about 45 days it'll stop hardening and over 3-6 months it will drop back down about one full point.
As they are, these rounds are too hard for the 1911 at these low pressures.

The book said I could load a 230 grain lead SWC with 5 grains max. of the 700-X for about 910 FPS. Since mine average 233 grains I dropped back .2 grain and loaded these at 4.8 grains and was hoping to see maybe 875 FPS but...only averaged 863 FPS for the five shots on the target below.
I shot at 10 yards freestyle two handed through the Crony and tried to make a good group and only managed to drop one in the bull.


175049

You see this round, I shot it through two 3 gallon water filled jugs placed sideways together, so, it ran through both jugs, about 22" of water and then into my ground rubber backstop where I dug it out at 12" deep in that.

Terrible mushrooming to say the least. At 10.4 BHN they are just too hard for the .45 ACP low pressure, but...they penetrated pretty well.
This batch of HP's will get another go at a Ruger Blackhawk a friend has, he can soup them up some and try to get them to mushroom for him...we'll see later about that.
My next move will be to drop the BHN down to 8 or 9 max and try this whole thing again later. Right now I have to put another week or so into my water project here at 'Trails End'. This little project will have to hold for a while.

It tried to start flattening but it just couldn't do it...Any suggestions for me now fellas?????

175050

[Mk42gunner]

I've always suspected that ACWW wouldn't expand at .45ACP velocities, your experiment with an even softer mix bears this out.

Got any 20-1 or 30-1 laying around? Failing that, what about casting some out of your SOWW? Maybe even pure lead, since you are powder coating them and don't have to worry about leading.

Since you will be in testing mode, I would just cast a few of each mixture to try. Then once I found what worked, I would go for quantity.

Robert

[OS OK]

Thanks Gunner for the comments. I thought about it last night and have decided to mix as lean as I can. Still have 30 pounds of roof flashing collected, that with a little Sn might get it down to a 30:1 ratio. The problem is that this reclaimed lead they use in mfg'ing the flashing measures about 8 BHN to start. I'm going to have to purchase some lead from Rotometals I guess.

I feel for all the guys that think their HP's for low pressure rounds are going to work out using the diluted wheel weights. Unless it's in a Magnum pressure gun it is going to let them down for sure.

I need HP's that will function in the 1911 and the Colt SAA...I think I can get there, I hope so or I'll have to put this mold in storage somewhere!

charlie

[B. Lumpkin]

For that bullet in the 45 acp I use 40:1 lead/tin. That's actually what I use for all of my hollow point bullets in handguns. No gas check needed at moderate velocity or pressure, but the 357 mag and 9mm get gas checked.

[45-70 Chevroner]

Another way - the last time I cast with a single pin Lyman small block mould, I wore Nomex/kid skin flying gloves. I would open the blocks, remove the boolit by grasping the pin handle, then twist the boolit off the pin. The moulds were 457122 and 429421HP.
I also have a 457122, but the pin is permanently attached. It is my favorite mold for the 45-70. The pin being permanently attached makes it very easy to cast with.

[MT Gianni]

Get or make a duplicate flat point. It is already at 45 you should not need much more expansion if any. Next step is to try it in your 45 Colt lever gun or the 454.

[OS OK]

I was thinking along the lines of a great cast Self Defense round that would have knock down power and turn into something like a quarter and stay inside the perp.
We are responsible for all our downrange rounds untill they come to a halt...and shooting in house where it could blow through and possibly penetrate a wall and injure a family member or neighbor...until someone convinces me otherwise, I want to end up with a round that doesn't penetrate more than 12" or less but carries with it high foot pounds of energy, sorta like stopping a train.

[runfiverun]

if you want it to stay inside you will need mushroom and quite a bit of it.
I'd opt to try just your straight roof flashing alloy, if it's at 8 bhn there is something in it either 1-2% tin or 2% ish of antimony.
either one would be enough to get the job done.
try that straight and see if you can pour some good boolits with it as is.

[OS OK]

Ok R5R...that seems like an easy try, I've never thought what that other stuff is but a small amt of tin might be enough...at least I'd have the 8 BHN part in hand and adding a very small amt of Sn couldn't drive it up too far...I hope! I'll giver a go and let everyone know a in a few days.

thanks...charlie

[OS OK]

I think I have it now...but you won't believe the story behind this lead though...2 days ago I poured it from ingots of pure SOWW's that measured 7.7 BHN on the day I put them up in January 2016.
After using these ingots and casting these SWC-HP's and air cooling, the casts measured 9.2 BHN the same day.(<what?) I also PC'd them later that afternoon and let them sit until this morning.
This morning I filed a wide spot in one of the PC'd rounds to test BHN, twice I tested that bugger!, it tests at a whopping 7.4 BHN!(<what?) After going through the 400 degree oven it now tests lower at 7.4 BHN...holy cow...I can't begin to explain this event..."I see you grinning over there 44man!"
Ok...the bottom line...I suppose that the bottom line is where it all comes out in the wash...right?
I taped the end of a 4" PVC elect. type conduit, leaned it against a trash can and filled it with water. Next I shot into the open end of the pipe...and yes, my belly is still wet from the blow back! (same load as the first test, casts wt.=238-9g. a bit heavier, more lead content...add, 4.8g. of 700X @ 863 FPS avg. Primers show rounded edges, no high pressure.)
But...look at the results here...You think I got it now or is it a fluke?...."charlie thick skull...the BHN guy!"
175298175299175300175301

[Mk42gunner]

Pretty mushrooms. Now to see how they group.

Sounds like you may have mis read your scale when you tested the hardness the other day.

Robert

[OS OK]

I loaded only that one for the water test, I'll have to load more and try to get them to nest together on the bull...oh boy, now everybody is going to see what a lousy shot I am!

[Dragonheart]

BHN is a moving target. As lead ages it gets harder, when subjected to 400 degrees for 10+ minutes to powder coat it gets softer. As long as it is properly powder coated it is not going to lead the barrel, as I have tested as pure lead as I could find at 1200 fps there was no leading.