Buckshot's Star sizer die method--it works!

[lathesmith]

I took Buckshot's idea from the following thread, and decided to do a bit of experimentation:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=28512

After a few tweaks and enhancements of my own, I eventually came up with what is shown in the following pics.
I decided to use a C-clip; so far this has worked out fairly well. There has been discussion of adding a washer. That can be done if necessary, but for now, just the C-clip by itself seems to work fine.
These things could be made up fairly quickly, with the right tools and machinery--and knowhow. I consider this to still be in the prototype stage, it needs to be vetted with more widespread field testing.
I am considering making up some of these for sale--with a twist, if there is any interest in this project. It goes something like this; guys have been complaining about the high cost of these dies, now around $40 a pop plus shipping. I think these "special" dies could be made for around $22 each, shipped. I would make these up on a requested basis; most diameters above .308 can be made. Here is the twist: you make a donation to this site for, say, $22, and I send you the die. Mind you this is experimental, and be aware you may not like it. For example, these dies are not hardened, but since I make them out of O-1 drill rod, they could easily be hardened, if you wish to do so. Also, polishing these things takes time, and time=money. These dies work great for me, but they can always be polished more to make them a little better, or a slightly larger size. You pay your money, and you make the choice...do a little of your own work, and save even more.
In other words, if you wish to make a nice donation to this site, and be involved in a prototype project, this may be for you. I would like to see if there is any interest in this, and then go from there. Also, if Buckshot or some other entrepreneuring "lather" wants to take this up as a commercial venture, I will NOT compete with them. I would also be happy to provide construction details and "how to's" on how I made these things.This experiment is mainly to provide a service to fellow shooters, and nothing else. Enjoy!
Lathesmith

[GLL]

Lathesmith:

I would like a couple to test!

Would you make them for a single lube groove so pugging is not required?

Jerry

[475/480]

I would like 2 dies to test also,with 2 rows of holes each die.
Just say the word I will get money sent.

Thanks Sean

[R.M.]

I'm in the market for a .360 die. :-D

[madcaster]

I would like a .431" and a .377".....

[fecmech]

I could use a .359 die. One row of 3 holes will work just fine for me.

[mto7464]

i'd try a .311 sizer for the GB carbine boolit

[lathesmith]

Okay, it appears there is quite enough interest to move this project forward! I need to get the lathe cranking, that is obvious. You guys also bring up some good points about holes and number of them. I can make any number of rows for you--well, up to 4 or so anyway--but I need to know, if you want more than one row of holes, the exact center-to-center spacing. So, this is the two pieces of info I need:
1) Sizing diameter; and
2) Number of hole rows, and if more than one, their center-to-center spacing. And, if you have a preference for number of holes per row. At the moment my holes are slightly larger than the stock dies, and I use 3 lube holes per row. This has worked fine for me so far, with my SPG and 50/50 lubes. If you have another preference let me know, and I will try and accomodate it.
So for now, either PM me or edit your previous post, and fill in the above info. This will get me enough to get started, and as I get your die finished I will let you know so that you can make a donation to the site here. Also, if you have questions don't hesitate to ask !
One other thing: These dies don't have any provision for an O-ring, as my set-up here works fine without it.
Thanks,
lathesmith

[IcerUSA]

Have you ckecked this thread out also ?
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=31033

Keith

[scrapcan]

IcerUSA,

Are you just bumping this thread up or did you mean to point to another thread?

[IcerUSA]

Link is there now , must have hit cntl C instead of cntl V , Thanks for pointing it out manleyjt .

Keith

[HeavyMetal]

PM sent, Looking for two dies.

Interesting die looking forward to trying them.

[GSM]

Lathesmith:

Is 308 the smallest diameter you will be working?

[Echo]

I'll take two, a .359 and a .430

EasyEd
USAF Ret
NRA Patron

[lathesmith]

Once again, I see there is plenty of interest in this project. For those of you who are fairly new to the boards here, be SURE and read the thread linked to in post #1 so you understand EXACTLY what these dies are. I will repeat, these are NOT an exact copy of the stepped Star die you may be currently using. These will have some non-critical dimensional variations, and are turned from 3/4" O-1 drill rod with a C-clip on top to keep them from slipping thru the sizer machine body. What this means in practical terms is that if you routinely do heavy swaging, say for using your favorite 45/70 boolit in your 45 ACP, you will probably NOT be happy with this die. However, if like me you just use your sizer to *lightly* swage your slug, or just apply lube with virtually no sizing, you will probably not be able to tell the difference between these dies and the "factory" ones. At this point, these are in the "experimental" stage, and my primary aim at this point is to get some field use for these to verify that this is a viable replacement design. With that in mind, I appreciate your willingness to try one of these--in return, all I am asking is for a donation to the boards here. I will let everyone know when I have some of these ready to go, which I hope to be late next week. It's been kinda busy around here, but I have every intention of getting in some good shop time in the next several days.
Okay, with that rant, here is more nitty-gritty: Either in your post here, or in a PM, let me know the size you want, number of lube grooves, and their spacing, and how far from the top of the die you wish these to start. If you do not know how far from the top you want them, by default I place the lube holes near the top of the lube groove area, as most guys seem to plug holes from the bottom up. Of course, one of the ideas here is to make these dies reasonably priced enough so that you don't have to fool with plugging holes, but this design should allow for that if you so desire.
Ah yes, the price and payment. I figure, for now, $22 for the first one, $40 for two, and $56 for three. I'll take care of the shipping. You will send your payment to the board here, and once again, I will let you know when it is time. Looks like I need to do more shop work and less typing, but the devil is always in the details, as they say.
Thanks again,
lathesmith

[garandsrus]

Lathesmith,

This is a great way to raise money for the site and get some real world experience with the modification. Nice job...

I think that Magma suggests plugging the holes from the top down so that the actual lubing is as low as possible in the die.

John

[lathesmith]

John, that's an interesting observation. In looking at the (admittedly lousy) manual, they show a 4-row die, plugging the top row and bottom row, to use with a dual-groove bullet. Hmm, I guess this is a flip of the coin here, I can put these holes anywhere; towards the top, towards the bottom, or near the middle. Maybe my default spot should be near the middle, this conforms with the manual and should handle most any scenario. Maybe some of the other guys will express their preference, and we can arrive at some kind of consensus.
lathesmith

[HeavyMetal]

Now you know why I asked for the .900 hole location on my die's. This actually splits the difference between the upper and middle lube holes on the "Factory" Star dies.

This will give you / me plenty of adjustment. I have always felt the "punch's provided with the Star's, particularly if you nose size, are to long.

Remember the handle is supposed to go to the bottom of the stroke and then move just a little bit more to activate the "lube injector" so having the boolit as far in the die as possible, or a bit shorter punch, is a must have to get the Star to work correctly.

Lathesmith already has this information from my PM to him, I listed this thread info for the rest of you guys to think about before you place an order for a die.

[lathesmith]

After a little more experience with these dies, I would like to offer a few "hints and how-to's " for those of you who will be trying these out.
1) If you are concerned about metal-to-metal contact of the C-clip with the top of the die, there is a simple solution: just put a bit of bullet lube underneath the clip, and it will never touch the top of your sizer. Some have asserted that the C-clip will damage the bore and top of the Star press due to contact. Unless the laws of physics have been repealed, this just isn't possible, especially if you use a little lube as a "spacer" here. I got to thinking about this, and discovered after some investigation that the lip of my factory Star die wasn't even in contact with the top of the press. Why? Because of a film of bullet lube that gets there just in the normal process of installation/removal of the die. It would take a lot more force than you can apply with the press handle to force the lip to contact the press top, because of this film of lube! So, put the laws of physics to work for you here, put some lube there on purpose, and you won't have a problem.
2) Install and remove these dies the same as you would a standard lipped die. DON"T remove the c-clip and force it down through the sizer chamber and out the bottom; there is a good chance you will damage your press! Why? The sizer chamber is a very close-tolerance hole, and it TAPERS SLIGHTLY from top to bottom--at least mine does. So don't experiment here, there is nothing to be gained. Install and remove these dies from the top, period. You'll be glad you did!
3) Because these dies are not hardened, you must be extra careful if you choose to plug some holes. I can promise you, if you go beating around on these dies with a hammer and punch, you WILL damage them! One of the main ideas behind this design is to eliminate the need to plug holes. If you need lots of holes and are plugging and unplugging them often, I recommend you stick with a factory die.

That's all I can think of at the moment, thanks to those of you who have taken an interest in this project and are also supporting the site.
lathesmith

[MtGun44]

I'm in for one at .454" diam. I may even harden it just for the fun of
it. I have a friend with a heat treat oven and I may get some SS foil.

Single row of holes. If I need more, I have a drill press and V-block . . .

Great idea.

Bill

[Trez Hensley]

I'd like to have a .358 die. Since I have not done a lot of different bullets with my star, I'm inclined to try heavyMetal's hole spacing/location.
Thanks,

[mtgrs737]

I would like three, .310", .359", .431" I wouldn't mind a .269" if you can make it. Single row of lube holes on the .359 and .431 but would need at least two on the .310 and three on the .269 if you can make it. If you can make a flat punch for nose first sizing on the Star to fit a .308" and .269" boolits I would take one each of those too. Let me know how and when?

Mtgrs737