Provlem with Lee 356-120-TC and Bullseye

[Kenk4]

I am getting decent accuracy but a lot of leading when using Lee 356-120-TC over 3.8, 4.0, and 4.2 grains of A. Bullseye. The data is coming from Lyman's 4th edition cast bullet book. The bullets are sized to 0.357" and lubed with LBT Blue Soft. The alloy is air cooled clip-on W.W. with 2% added tin. The hardness is a BHN of 14 which is just below Lyman No 2. The barrel slugs out at 0.356". The leading is the worst in the first inch or so and persists in the groves the length of the barrel.

I tried Universal and got heavy leading and very poor accuracy but that was before I slugged my barrel and switched to a 0.357" sizing die.

Does anyone have any suggestions? Is the lead too soft? According to the data, bullets should be moving between 1000 and 1100 FPS.

Should I switch to a slower powder or a harder alloy? Perhaps add some Linotype?

Thank you.

[Yodogsandman]

Could you be crimping too hard, resizing the boolit down smaller? Try a .358" sizing die, too.

Are you waiting long enough for the boolits to age harden? You could try water dropping from the mold to add some BHN's to it.

[stinjie]

Maybe try 3.6 or 3.7 grains of the B/E.This load helped 2 of my lead-prone 9mm from build-up (kt pf9 and Ruger p89dc).Ben's Red lube helped also.Some guns do better than others with lead.I had a prior K/T pf9 that did not lead at all with 4.0 gr of B/E powder.My CZ 75B gets no leading at all with near max loads with that Lee bullet,using data for 124 lead bullets.Good luck,shoot safe!

[hpeach]

The same problem surfaced here some months past. The solution that worked was powder coating. Enjoy

[Dusty Bannister]

I use that bullet, that alloy (less tin), and NRA 50-50 or home made Lithi-Bee at .357" and 3.7 or 3.8 Grains of Bulls Eye. That has shot lead free in Ruger, Glock, and Marlin Camp Carbine. I never measured the group size though. Has accuracy been an issue, or are you pushing to make "major"? I have been careful with the taper crimp setting though.

[Kenk4]

I'm just trying to get it to shoot lead free. The accuracy has been acceptable. Crimp, might be a problem I will check it to see what it's doing.

[Floydster]

I powder coat this bullet for my .357 mag., 38 Super and my 9mm.
I push it hard in all these calibers with zero prob.
Also have run these with Lyman lube and with proper sizing, very little leading.
Floydster

[jcameron996]

Pull a bullet and check your size again to make sure you aren't sizing the bullet back down with the case. I ran into this and had to change out the expander plug on my Lee 9mm die to a .38 s&w. Think the plug cost like three bucks to solve the problem.

Sent from my 0PJA2 using Tapatalk

[jimb16]

I always had problems with that bullet too. I finally gave up. There are plenty of other very good bullets for the 9mm and it just wasn't worth the frustration.

[GBertolet]

I think your bullets are getting swaged during the seating/crimping operation. Most expander balls are designed for .355 jacketed bullets, which means they expand the case mouth to .352 to .353 diameter. That's a lot of squeezing for a soft .357 bullet. Be aware, also too heavy of a taper crimp will also swage a bullet down while in the case. I've been there and experienced all of these, as I have a 9mm that has a .3575 barrel. I made my own expander ball that expands my cases to .356 for my .358 bullets, which fit and function OK. Stay away from thick walled brass for this. You could likely modify a 38 special expander also to fit the 9mm die.

[Tar Heel]

I would use straight WW metal and drop-quench them to get the BHN up a tad higher. I use the NRA 50-50 formula lube and have not had any problems with the drop-quenched alloy and lube in all my 9's. I get my lube from LSStuff < http://www.lsstuff.com >

Be sure your taper crimp is properly adjusted too.

[GhostHawk]

I gave up on it and use the .358 124 grain instead. No leading, no keyholing, no patterns instead of groups.

However it will depend somewhat on how tight your barrel/chamber is.

For my Hipoint C9 the bigger bullet solved all problems.
Same for my single shot 9mm carbine.

My Hipoint 9mm carbine seems to do fine with the smaller boolit.
My buddy's Berretta 92fs had to have them sized down a touch or they would not always go into battery.

[GooseGestapo]

I've never used LBT Blue. I have used NRA 50/50 and SPG. Same boolit. I don't recommend Bullseye in 9mm.
Suggest WST, or better LongShot. Less slam easier push to start bullet.

[Kenk4]

Thank you for all of the responses. I seated a bullet and pulled it. It still measured 0.357" Then I seated and crimped a bullet, then pulled it. It measured 0.355". I'm thinking that this might be an excellent place to start.

Has anyone ever used Universal with this bullet? I have a lot of it and it works great in 44sp and 44mag.

[runfiverun]

.358..

[JeffG]

Kenk4, are you using a Lee FCD? Some people have had issue with that die. I personally never did but switched to Lee taper crimp die instead. I'm now using a Hornady taper crimp seating die and have no issue in 3 different 9mm, sized 357.

[Kenk4]

I'm using a Dillon taper crimp die on a 650 progressive press.

[btreanor]

I've had my best luck in 9mm with .358 boolits and slower powders. HS-6 has worked very well for me.

[garym1a2]

I use the 38 expander too, it helps a lot. I also only use 3.8grs of BE. Still I found this a great bullet to powder coat.


Pull a bullet and check your size again to make sure you aren't sizing the bullet back down with the case. I ran into this and had to change out the expander plug on my Lee 9mm die to a .38 s&w. Think the plug cost like three bucks to solve the problem.

Sent from my 0PJA2 using Tapatalk

[gwpercle]

Try backing out the taper crimp die, this will apply less crimp to the larger diameter boolit.
The crimp die has to be able to hold .355 J-bullets , mine is backed out about one full turn...trial and error will determine your exact amount of "back out" for your .357 boolits, I size mine .357 also ..
I also am using the Lee 120 TC boolit and this solved the swaging down.

Gary

[Kenk4]

Try backing out the taper crimp die, this will apply less crimp to the larger diameter boolit.
The crimp die has to be able to hold .355 J-bullets , mine is backed out about one full turn...trial and error will determine your exact amount of "back out" for your .357 boolits, I size mine .357 also ..
I also am using the Lee 120 TC boolit and this solved the swagging down.

Gary

I'm going to give that a try next. Along with garym1a2's suggestion of 3.8gr BE. That charge has worked the best for me so far. Perhaps, if I address the swagging problem, everything will come together. If that doesn't provide satisfactory results, I will try a slower powder next.

[Kenk4]

The same problem surfaced here some months past. The solution that worked was powder coating. Enjoy

I've explored that in the past. I tried the tumbler static method and it was very inconsistent. I would have to read up some more before trying that again. I have to admit that this was before finding the castboolits forum.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

I use that boolit sized to .358 with Carnuba Red over 4.0 gr Red Dot. No leading. Great accuracy. I do my crimp in a separate operation. I use the Lee Taper Crimp die, and only do enough to remove the bell. I found that the Dillon power expander die is too small, and will reduce the diameter of soft boolits. I had a custom one made.

[bedbugbilly]

All I can add is my own experience. I have used that boolit with my Ruger SR9 and I found I needed to size .358 and use 3.5 gr. of BE to get good results and no leading. I'll add that I just tumble lube in alox/paste wax and I cast from "range lead" - I'm a pretty low tech caster and have been for 50 years. When playing around, bumped the BE up to 4.2 gr. and I ended up getting a leaded barrel - first and only I've ever had.

3.5 gr. of BE cycles my SR9 just fine and gives fairly good accuracy . . . the "in-accuracy" is me!

That said, when I got my 9mm Shield, I used the same load/boolit and my Shield didn't cycle well at all. Bumped it up to the same boolit over 3.7 and it did great and had good accuracy. Bumped it up higher and the Shield didn't like it - failure to eject fully ending up with the casing mouth pointing north while the slide clamped it tightly between the slide and the barrel. I ended up settling on using that boolit with 3.7 grains of BE and both the SR9 and the Shield seem to like it.

Again . . . I'm "low tech" . . idon'thave a chronograph and if I did, I'd probably end up shooting it. LOL But, for the shooting I'm doing, that's what I ended up with. Try .358 and starting over at the bottom of the data and see where the sweet spot is. Or, as suggested . . . you might try PC. I had a clerk I know who works at one of the gunshots I frequent talk be into buying a box of PC boolits for the 9mm - 115 grain. They are .357 I believe (I'd have to look at the box) andI have to admit, they do shoot well . . . even old dogs can learn tricks once in a while.

Good luck to you and hope you get it squared away.

[Walter Laich]

while mine are not barn-burners I am cycling a CZ-85 with 2.5 and 2.9 gr of BE. Bullets are 120 gr ones and lead

[yondering]

I've never used LBT Blue. I have used NRA 50/50 and SPG. Same boolit. I don't recommend Bullseye in 9mm.
Suggest WST, or better LongShot. Less slam easier push to start bullet.

I've recently come to this conclusion too. Not because of accuracy issues, burn rate, etc, but for some reason Bullseye and light 9mm loads always lead a little bit in my guns, even powder coated. Running the same bullets at the same velocity with Clays or American Select works a lot better, with very little or no fouling. (BTW American Select is pretty bulky and fills the case well with these light loads, no chance of double charge.) Also, running the same bullets at full +P pressures instead of light Bullseye loads leaves a shiny clean bore.

My conclusion is that Bullseye is the cause of this leading.

[Kenk4]

Today I adjuste the crime die to eliminate a the swaging that I was experiencing. I tried 3.8 grains of both Bullseye and H. Universal. Both loads produced leading however, the accuracy with bullseye was terrible. With Universal, accuracy was actually quite good! Last time I tried Universal, I had a bullet that was swaged .002" in the crimp die and accuracy was non existent.

[Kenk4]

My bullets are running between a BHN of 14 and 15. Is anyone else using quenched bullets or mixing in linotype? Anyone else believe this mould is a bad design? Universal is showing some promis and I have some Longshot on hand.

[twc1964]

Heck, my boolits from this same mold are 9.0 bhn. I powdercoat and shove em down a lone wolf bbl in my g19 at near max loads of b.e. I don't have any problems at all. Maybe I just got lucky but casting for my glock has never been a problem. I like that boolit and still use b.e and wsf as my main go to powders.

[Yodogsandman]

My bullets are running between a BHN of 14 and 15. Is anyone else using quenched bullets or mixing in linotype? Anyone else believe this mould is a bad design? Universal is showing some promis and I have some Longshot on hand.

What are you using for lube? It's the only thing you don't mention. Will it do the job?

Are you sizing to .358" yet? Fit the boolit to .002" over bore diameter.... most times.

Your alloy is plenty hard enough already without water dropping.

It's probably not the boolit. Mine shoot better than I can hold. It could be something with your barrel that makes that boolit not like it.

[Kenk4]

What are you using for lube? It's the only thing you don't mention. Will it do the job?

Are you sizing to .358" yet? Fit the boolit to .002" over bore diameter.... most times.

Your alloy is plenty hard enough already without water dropping.

It's probably not the boolit. Mine shoot better than I can hold. It could be something with your barrel that makes that boolit not like it.

The bore slugs out at 0.356". The bullet drops from the mold just proud of 0.357" is sized to 0.357" in a lubersizer. I am using Veral Smith's LBT Blue Soft lube.

[Yodogsandman]

What size are they after about 3 weeks? Boolits with antimony in the alloy will "grow" initially for a few weeks. Wait to size them until then. Maybe try them unsized and finger lubed.

More antimony in your alloy would help cast a little bit larger. So, a little linotype will help.

You could "beagle" your mold with some thin aluminum tape to cast larger, too.

LBT Blue should easily handle it!

[cpaspr]

My SR9c slugged out at .3575" if I'm remembering right. I'm loading that same bullet (water quenched, 20-1 alloy) over 4.8gr Bullseye. My bullets are 118gr. That's the load that shoots best for me, and no leading. Oh, I use a .358" push-through sizing die, and pan-lube with an approximately 50-50 parafin/beeswax mix, with a little olive oil or vaseline mixed in when the lube starts hardening up.

[Beef15]

I load this bullet over 3.8 of BE no leading to speak of.
I size .358" had to lap my mold a bit to get there.
I use a 38S&W expander. Lube with 411/Pinko.

I tried TG, and Power Pistol, but that was before I got the size right, the BE shoots well so I stopped. Shot well with a lower charge as well.

ETA: Water dropped COWW. And only barely removing the flair/bell from the case, FCD had to have the carbide sizer ring removed to do right.

[Kenk4]

I use that boolit sized to .358 with Carnuba Red over 4.0 gr Red Dot. No leading. Great accuracy. I do my crimp in a separate operation. I use the Lee Taper Crimp die, and only do enough to remove the bell. I found that the Dillon power expander die is too small, and will reduce the diameter of soft boolits. I had a custom one made.

Where did you get your powder expander die??? I called Dillon and they said they do offer custom expanders.

On a positive note, I did try 4.6gr of Hodgdon Longshot today. It gave excellent accuracy and very minor leading. The light lead streaks were easily removed with a regular bronze bore brush in about three passes.