.460 S&W case, in a .45 Colt S/A, (Shot Load)

[MnSpring]

A number of years ago, I picked up a cheep puberty S/A, 45. A, PO, thought it was cool to wipe it with ‘vanish’, to make it look, ‘old’. Well, it makes blue steel, old looking, BUT, now you really have to have a coat of oil on it. (The PO forgot that).

Anyway, remembering a Very Old article in a, gun, mag/book, where a .444 Marlin case, was used, cut, fire formed, into a shot shell for the .45. So, this was the perfect gun to play with. Used the .444 Marlin case, cut the dia & thickness of the rim. (Friend has a lath), and cut to the cyl length.

After loaded with shot, (loading info later), I then (well lubed) the case and put in a 444 die, to get a smaller dia. top, so it would fit the cyl. Worked, but a little stiff to push out after fired.

Then (what the heck), Reamed the Cyl out to .480 ALL the way through. Much better. NOW, S&W made the .460 brass. So Easy. Just cut to length with the bandsaw, and trim to make the mouth square. Now, works even better. I wear this 45 S/A, when Lawn mowing. And when I see a rabbit, (in season or course), or a wood chuck. Don’t have to worry about, what is over that hill, like a solid projectile, in rifle or handgun.

I have a recipe/method, that works real well in the S/A, Colt Clone. Was wondering, (now that I broke down, and purchased a, .460 V). Has anybody, experimented with this in their .460, ??? I am thinking even better, cause a bit more case, thus a bit more shot?

Here is what is happening in the 45 clone. S&W .460 brass. Cut to a frogs hair less than the cyl. Then powder, then a .44 copper gas check, (cup down). Pushed into place by a modified die. Then the shot, 1/2 oz, (5’s/6’s, seem to work best) Have played with #12, to # 4 shot. (WOW, the #12 shot, no snake in the world would miss the getting hit in the head, with at least 15+ pellets, at 30-40 feet). Next a 45 copper gas check, on top, (cup up), and a roll crimp, to turn the top of the case, into the cup.

Played with, buffering, different shot sizes, a wad, of paper, overshot wad of ‘pop’ can alum, cardboard, glue. Nothing worked as well, as the copper gas check.

So now, before I start experimenting with the full length, .460 brass, in the S&W .460 V.
Is their anybody, who has done this?
Would love to hear your experiences.

As to Powder, I used Bullseye, 1: cause I had it, 2: I have used it, (Who doesn’t remember, ‘2.7g/148gWC in the .38’). 3: it is fast with small volume. (How Much? That’s your job, I don’t carry insurance to cover your experiments.) FPS, 700 +/- seems to work best. Running to 800 +, blows the patterns. 600 -, well little better patterns. But it didn’t see worth it. A Rabbit or Chuck, at 50 feet, is a, Rabbit or Chuck, No More !

Yes Virginia, their IS rifling, in a handgun. And the BATFE rules are it can NOT be taken out, (Unless you want to do a Whole Bunch of other things). So I live with it. And deal with the short, in-effective range of the shot, from a rifled bore. Which is, in my opinion/experience, is only 74.89%, BETTER, than the little ineffective, ’Plastic Shot Capsules’.

[victorfox]

I think a full reaming to the cylinder of taurus judges might be the ticket to accuracy in .45 Colt using longer brass.

My loads using .410 brass use a fast powder quite like bullseye or W231, 6 gr under 3/8 oz of shot with quite good patterns using smaller shot like 7 1/2 or max #6. Tried #4 but the pattern is very thin.

Then I go up to #BB or #F with good results meaning 3 or 4 pellets on a crow sized target at about 15yds.

My gun however is a smoothbore judge 6.5" (I live in brazil so rifling restriction doesn't apply).

Please post pics, your project is quite unusual and very interesting.
Best regards

[MnSpring]

...
Please post pics, your project is quite unusual and very interesting.
Best regards


Was asked for some photos, so I found a roundtuit, and heer they are.
I have renamed this the, 10.5 x 43 RS, and only a dozen or so people, local, use this.
(Just guessing that, their are a WHOLE Lot of people, who have done the same thing, that I don’t know about)

No need to go through all the work up on the .444 cases, as S&W has now conveniently provided the .460 S&W case.

As stated before, Cut off the cases, with something, a frogs hair longer than the cylinder. Then Trim them flat, just a frogs hair under the Cyl length. Then chamfer the inside.

Now, decide if you will use them in a straight wall cyl, or ream out a cylinder to it’s end. (.480). Or use them in a not altered .45 Colt chamber.

Straight Wall Cyl: Powder, (fast burning), a .44 gas check, (Seated cup down), or a nitro wad, or a thick cut wad, (Back of a tablet). Then, (if you want) a ‘wad’, cut from a brown paper bag, or, dried coffee filters, rectangular shape, roll, and drop down the case. Then your shot, (with or without buffer), than a over shot wad, .45 cal gas check, (Cup up), and a generous roll crimp.

Not Altered Cyl: Take the cut/trimed case. Insert it in a carbide, .44 die, With Lub, far enough to make a neck. Measure or test it, in, ’that’, cyl you are going to use it in. The rest, the same, Except, for the over shot wad. Use another 44 cal gas check. These will come out of the Cyl, just most will take a little heavier, ‘push’. If it’s to much for you, or your firearm, reduce the load a bit, and/or make sure your chamber holes are smooth.

Over Powder wad: Really does not matter much, as long as it keeps the Powder and Shot Separate. And the whole load, is, ’solid’, from one end to the other, it is easy. Have used a thin, ’nitro’ wad, tablet backing, milk carton wads, pop can amum. I use the 44 gas check, cause I have a box full of them.

Over Shot Wads: This is where the copper gas check works best. Holding the shell together under recoil, of other shells fired.
I have tired, all Sorts of wads, and glue, and they all will fail, if subject to recoil multiple times.
Single shot, doesn’t matter, as long as what you use, holds things together, until you shoot it. Problem comes, (in my case), using a S/A revolver. Load one, skip one, load 4, then cock and drop, your fixed firing pin, will be on the, Burying Money hole, (Empty Cyl hole). If a modern, .45 Colt, with transfer bar, 6 loads is your choice. When I shoot one or two, then reload, then shoot one or two again, the remaining rounds, may be subject to several dozen, ‘recoil’, cycles. That’s where the crimped in, copper gas check, does it’s job. The variable here is, Gas Check, cup up, or cup down? Up to you.

Load: Won’t give you a, ’specific’, load. (I don’t carry insurance for Your experiments). But some hints.
Weigh, ALL, the items, you want to, ’shoot’ out. Then, “Look To The Books”, for a powder charge, which works, with about 700 fps +/-. Next, a, ‘dirty’ , bore here, is your friend, (Perhaps the Only time one is), As you, CAN NOT, take out the rifling of your handgun. (Per Law). The, lead pellets, ARE, Softer, than the steel in your bore. They may fill up lots of the rifling, with lead, but Lead is Softer, than steel, and it CAN, be cleaned out. Shot: Have experimented with #12 to #4. What works best? Again, that is for you to decide, for the reason, you are going to load it for. (I have two loads, that work well. #9’s, and #5/6’s, Snake & Rabbit/woodchuck) Seems like, the smaller the shot size, the, ‘dirtier’ the bore is, it will produce a better pattern. OH, and this is all ’Smokeless Powder’, not Black powder.

So, these work, in a old S/A Colt clone, (drilled out cyl), and in a unaltered, .45 Ruger. (Bottle Neck Case).
One reason, when I started this, their was only the T/C Contender, that, could shoot a .45 Colt or .410.
(Outside of the people, that had a well worn ’Trapdoor’, and often shot 2-1/2” .410 in them)

Who has a Governor/Judge, that is going to try this?
But, never having one of them, (I do keep my eye out for a cheep used one)
I think I would just re-load a .410.

Anyway, another, ‘experiment’, for you.

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[victorfox]

Not very different in shape to my fireformed cases (magtech 410).
174149

In fact since I can't get 45 colt brass in my country, I'm cutting the .410 brass to 45 length so I can load larger round balls :).

Also, given the smaller payload I shoot, I also find the shorter cases better to glue the over shot wad, makes work easier.

Nice work.

[MnSpring]

... since I can't get 45 colt brass in my country, ...

victorfox,

I can see, that the brass case, has fire formed, to the larger size of the .45 Colt. and, ‘stayed’, the same, for the .410 portion of the cyl. That would be very interesting to, ‘play’ with. But I am thinking, I would just play with, various, .410 hand loads.

Smoothbore Handgun. That would be fun, but unless one, jumped through, a lot, (I Mean a LOT) of hoops, here that is not possible. If you can do S.B. in a handgun, and yours will be used for, ’shot’ only, I would say, Ream Out the Cyl !

If you can’t buy, .460, or .45 Colt cases where you are. Perhaps they could be sent to you? After all, (not primed), they are JUST, pieces of inert brass ! Can you get, .454 Casull?, (Only about 1/8” longer. The .45 C/.454 C/.460, are All the same, except length.

[victorfox]

Thanks for the offer but really can't get them due to the law. I live in brazil. In fact like in every socialist place YOU CAN do certain things, like having a 45 Colt, 454 Casull or even a 500 S&W. You just need to be filthy rich and bave specific friends, because the paperwork is as expensive as an entry level motorcycle for example, after it's done you must request a permit to purchase the gun (in such caliber or any of those considered restricted), it will be analysed and the officer may have woken with a foul mood and stamp NO... then you have to wait and try again. Among other stuff. I believe it's easier to deal with BATF so you can figure how things go here...

A piece of brass in the pocket have put a bunch of guys behind the bars here... yes, just the brass, no load no gun. That's the law.

So we do as we can to loophole it, like doing what I said. Just to buy boxer primers for example, you must have the permit I mentioned earlier and also a reloading permit. Then you must buy from the factory, there are no over the counter boxers, only berdan and 209.

I just bought a judge because I could handload for it loopholing a shotgun handloading permission, not because I really like the 410 handgun thing, which in the end came quite useful to me... :) so I can afford to shoot a little more than if I had say a 38 or 380 (the other calibers allowed for those who don't have the Army license.)

Things are so stupid here, if I had say a 357 (with Army permit) and shot it in self defense, I'd lose said license and would be sued.. So I'd need a 38/380 for self defense and a 357/45/500/308 to hunt (boars only) and to show my friends at the gun club...

[victorfox]

I'm going to give a try with larger round balls in the cut cases before thinking in reaming the cylinder. Not sure even if our gunsmiths here are able to do such tasks... believe me, most don't know even how a rifle is rifled... Many just change parts. The older better guys are already dead or gave up the profession after the 2003 hunted them like witches... Gone are the days when the gunsmith could make a usable gun from a bunch of junk steel and spare parts.

Thanks again.

[yondering]

I've used 444 Marlin brass for similar 45 Colt shotshells years ago, and am now working on 460 S&W shotshells. Interesting that you had to lathe turn the 444 rims thinner; they always worked as-is in my 45 Colt Blackhawks and now my 460 S&W.

I only have a few shot loads through the 460 so far, but using a .410 shot wad seems to give the best patterns, even though shot capacity is slightly reduced. I'm also using 45 ACP shotshell dies (the seater anyway) to seat a card wad at the case mouth and form the heavy roll crimp rounded nose that those dies produce.

I'm also experimenting with stackable wadcutters, a sort of buckshot if you will; I modified a Lee mold to drop 80gr wadcutters that look like little coins. 4 to 6 of those in a 460 S&W case is a pretty decent payload, and reasonably good patterns are possible.

Multiple round balls were successful in my 45 Colts years ago, but I haven't got around to trying them in the 460 yet. IIRC two .495" round balls sized down to .452, lubed with LLA, gave good accuracy and patterns when fired at ~ 600 fps in the 45 Colt. It was a real thumper on rabbits, just bowled them over.

This 460 is a great development for shot and buck loads, tons of case capacity!

[yondering]

OK, got motivated to try some shot loads after posting here.

444 Marlin cases
.410 shot wads cut slightly shorter than the case mouth
~210gr of #7-1/2 shot
.070" .410 card wad, or Hornady copper gas check
5.2gr Bullseye.

The loads with a copper gas check are easier on the brass, but the patterns aren't as good; the gas check blows out the center of the pattern sometimes.

The loads with a card wad are crimped in the RCBS 45 ACP shotshell die, leaving the case mouth looking a lot like the CCI 45 Auto shotshells. These loads patterned very well, enough to be effective on small game inside of 25 yards or so. Annealing the case mouth helps a lot to re-use these cases with the heavy roll crimp.

Velocity with 5.2gr Bullseye was right about 1010 fps in my 7.5" Performance Center 460. 4.5gr gave 900 fps, with no improvement in the shot pattern.

[victorfox]

Nice to see your results. The powder I have here is about same burn rate as BE. I use 6gr under 5/16 or 3/8 oz shot, could never chrono it.

I think the over shot GC or too thick card is the problem. My loads pattern well but I never use anything thicker than a tablet back/cover. Sometimes I punch wads from toilet paper cores and glue 2 or 3 over the shot.

[yondering]

I was punching card wads from my primer boxes; that always worked pretty well. Today is the first I've tried the .070" thick .410 card wads, they work great too, much better than copper gas checks.

I tried some thin (.008") aluminum gas checks too, but the patterns still weren't much better than with copper checks. Card stock is the way to go.

[GRUMPA]

I'm going to give this a try and see how it goes. If I'm reading this correctly (gotta wonder sometimes) I'll need 460 brass sized with a 44mag carbide sizer for the 45LC. The over powder wad to me is pretty simple but the over shot card I'll be doing differently. Here's a picture of a 380 I have out for field trials and I plan on using the same crimp on the 45LC as I did on the 380.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174666&d=1471547987

[yondering]

Grumpa, is that star crimp done with the custom Hornady dies, or something else?

[GRUMPA]

It's called a notching die that I use for my swaging projects, the die is just screwed down further to give it more of a rather large roll crimp.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97568&d=1393184574

And the die came from BTSniper who hangs out in the swaging section of the site, who also has a VS page. He in turn got it from CH4D I believe....

Edit: I looked on his VS page and here it is....
BTX (xtp) Universal Multi Caliber Notch Die
$195

[yondering]

Cool, thanks.

I just noticed a few weeks ago Hornady lists a die set to form shotshell crimps like that in their 2016 catalog. Don't know what they cost though.

[MnSpring]

I'm going to give this a try and see how it goes. If I'm reading this correctly (gotta wonder sometimes) I'll need 460 brass sized with a 44mag carbide sizer for the 45LC.

It worked well with the .444 cases, in the Colt Clone. (Before I reamed them out to .480.)
They were a little more sticky, for ejection, but could still do it by hand.

I suppose it's a 'belt/spenders' thing, (using a Lubed case, and a Carbide die), but it worked easy.

[MnSpring]

... .410 shot wads cut slightly shorter than the case mouth ... ... in my 7.5" Performance Center 460.

As I have what works, in the clone, probably will not change it a lot.
However, I see you are shooting a "X" frame, .460.

In a weak moment, at a gun show, I picked up a 5", .460.
Have not played with, 'shot' in it yet.
I am concerned with the Comps.
Is yours accumulating plastic crud, from the wad?
I wonder if a couple of wraps, inside the case, of coffee filter paper would work?

Thinking coffee filter paper, would be the strongest?

Thanks

[RPRNY]

Some remarks, prefaced with the caveat that they are not criticism, only comment:

A credible 45 Cal revolver shot shell need not have any perceivable recoil, so the various gas check usage listed seems unnecessary complexities.

A simple over powder wad and fibre wad with a plain old card overshot wad glued in place will serve very effectively and will hold together just fine. Provided you get a good gas seal with the overpowder wad and fibre wad, it will function perfectly well. Like a 410 shot shell, wad column pressure is not that important in a 45 cal shot shell.


The "dirty bore" trick is quite a good way to mitigate pattern deterioration form the rifling.

I only use mine for snake patrol with #9 shot and a stock 45 Colt shell is fine, but using the 460 shell to allow a reasonable load of #5 shot for your intended use makes good sense.

[MnSpring]

I've used 444 Marlin brass for similar 45 Colt shotshells years ago, and am now working on 460 S&W shotshells. Interesting that you had to lathe turn the 444 rims thinner; they always worked as-is in my 45 Colt Blackhawks and now my 460 S&W. ...

Yea, To turn freely, I had to do the Dia of the Rim, and the Thickness of the rim. (In the clone)
Before, I got, 'Precise', using a friends lathe, I just put them in a drill press, and used a hand file, to take the Dia down. And the thickness, was just when the impressed head stamp was gone.

Never, tested any .444 brass in another 45C, or the .460.

Don't think I'll have to now. (Thanks S&W for the .460)

[yondering]

As I have what works, in the clone, probably will not change it a lot.
However, I see you are shooting a "X" frame, .460.

In a weak moment, at a gun show, I picked up a 5", .460.
Have not played with, 'shot' in it yet.
I am concerned with the Comps.
Is yours accumulating plastic crud, from the wad?
I wonder if a couple of wraps, inside the case, of coffee filter paper would work?

Thinking coffee filter paper, would be the strongest?

Thanks

No issue at all with the compensator on mine with shotshells. Granted, it's the Performance Center version, which has a different compensator, YMMV. I don't think the wad touches the comp at all though; I don't see any signs of it, and the shot patterns are excellent, very much like an open cylinder .410 shotgun.

[GRUMPA]

I can't even begin to tell folks just how many shot loads I've used in my own compensated pistols.

Never a problem or abnormal debris has ever been a concern, same as using regular loads to be honest.

[MnSpring]

... A credible 45 Cal revolver shot shell need not have any perceivable recoil, so the various gas check usage listed seems unnecessary complexities. ... The "dirty bore" trick is quite a good way to mitigate pattern deterioration form the rifling.

Yes, the recoil, of a .factory 410, in a Governor/Judge, is a WHOLE lot more, than in this crafted .45C/,460 shell.
(Don't own any of those two, but Have Shot them) If I find one used cheep, may buy one, but then, will Re-Load, to make a Better round.

The Overshot Wad: A Gas Check. Have tired Many different things. Many. And I suppose it is, because, some of the shells, may be subject to a 10-12-14, or more, recoil cycles, even though the recoil is Far Less, than a factory .410 2-1/2". The frailer of the over shot wad, still happens.

When I was testing, I Shot, 5 loads at a time. And with various cardboard/pop can alum/etc., and Glue, over shot wads. They Worked. The problem was discovered when, Load 5 in the S/A, Shoot one or two, reload, then next time shoot one, reload, then next time, shoot 2. (Etc. Etc.) I Did not, 'Rotate' the shells, so that the un-shot ones, were shot first the next time. I Found out, the over shot wads, failed, with several recoil cycles. (As light as it was). The Gas Checks, have not failed.

After testing the load/pattern, found what worked. Loaded 50 rounds. Then they started failing. (Over shot wad getting very loose, and in some cases shot from un-fired rounds dribbling out of bbl.) So, next loaded the, copper, gas check, 150 rounds, it did not fail. Then S&W came out with the .460. Never looked back.

(Perhaps, it was because of most of the time, sitting on a ZTR lawn mower, the constant, 'little' vibration, had something to do with it)

Have shot pigeons, from inside a barn, with NO holes in the roof, with #12. Have numerous, rabbits and red squirrels, (in season of course), and Wood Chucks, with #5-6's. Have #9's loaded, ready for snakes, (But Never shot one, except on paper pattern laying on the ground, or in the snow)

And Yes, their is the occasional, "Hole in the pattern", from the solid GC, But I think the probability, is kinna like, 'getting hit twice from lightening', as to not dispatching the prey.

If you have a 'Over Shot' wad. That, works as well as a GC, that you have used, for withstanding several recoil cycles. Would be VERY interested in trying that !

As to the, over powder wad. Did not seem to matter, as long as the powder, and shot, were, 'sealed', and the whole case inside was, 'solid'. I just used the 44 GC's, because, I had them, and essentially they cost me nothing.

Dirty Bore: In This Case. It works Well ! http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/icons/icon10.png

[jmsj]

I had planned to work on this project a long time ago but had forgot about it. This thread reminded me about giving giving it a try.
I started playing around with using a .44 sizing die to neck down the .460 brass and crumpled the first one. On the second, I used the .44 seating die as a first step and then the sizing die as a finishing step. I kept sizing until the brass seated all the way into my Ruger Vaquero cylinder.
My plan is to use .410 wads to carry the shot. I put a .410 wad all the way in the reformed case and it is just about the same length as the case with no powder in it. I'll have to figure out how much to cut down the wad once I figure how much space is needed for the powder.
Has anyone else used a .410 wad in this case? Any advice would be appreciated.
jmsj.

[MnSpring]

I can't even begin to tell folks just how many shot loads I've used in my own compensated pistols.
Never a problem or abnormal debris has ever been a concern, same as using regular loads to be honest.

That is very encouraging. As soon as I get the 'New to me, but Used' (V .460) back, from my, 'Holster maker', (For the one strap, over the neck, for a Lawn Mower). Will give a, 'FULL', .460 case a try.

Thanks for the, 'Use' report.

[MnSpring]

... I started playing around with using a .44 sizing die to neck down the .460 brass and crumpled the first one. On the second, I used the .44 seating die as a first step and then the sizing die as a finishing step. I kept sizing until the brass seated all the way into my Ruger Vaquero cylinder.
My plan is to use .410 wads to carry the shot. I put a .410 wad all the way in the reformed case and it is just about the same length as the case with no powder in it. ... Has anyone else used a .410 wad in this case? Any advice would be appreciated.
jmsj.

From experience. The 're-forming', of the .460 brass. (for a 'neck'), Is what works for you. Looks like you have a method. Suggestions, (Lub, and annealed cases)

As to using a .410 wad. It will work, but significantly less shot.
Try, 'Any', wad, between, power and shot. (As long as it seals the load)
And a Over Shot wad, of a 44 gas check, or try various, cardboard, etc, wads, with a glue.

[yondering]

I had planned to work on this project a long time ago but had forgot about it. This thread reminded me about giving giving it a try.
I started playing around with using a .44 sizing die to neck down the .460 brass and crumpled the first one. On the second, I used the .44 seating die as a first step and then the sizing die as a finishing step. I kept sizing until the brass seated all the way into my Ruger Vaquero cylinder.
My plan is to use .410 wads to carry the shot. I put a .410 wad all the way in the reformed case and it is just about the same length as the case with no powder in it. I'll have to figure out how much to cut down the wad once I figure how much space is needed for the powder.
Has anyone else used a .410 wad in this case? Any advice would be appreciated.
jmsj.

Yes, as posted above, that's what I'm using, and getting much better patterns than just loose shot in the case. Cut the wad back ~1/8"-1/4", depending on your powder charge.

The shot pattern is much more important than the amount of shot; it's well worth sacrificing some for better patterns that a .410 wad gives. No leading in the barrel that way either. But, if you use a copper gas check in the case mouth, it'll blow out the shot pattern anyway, so maybe it's not worth using a wad in that case.

[MnSpring]

Update report. My truck 'automatically' kills, when I drive by a gun shop. (Just like MANY other people I know) ! Because I know this, I Quickly pull into their parking lot.
Anyway, at shop in the TC/s area. Looked, and Low and behold, their was a used Ruger, .45C, (old mod) Vaquero, SB, 3-1/2". Looked again, and someone had put a Bisley hammer on it. Asked to see it, (expected to see, a hack job) BUT, The screws were NOT buggered, the pins were Not 'hammered', The Cyl looked like it was reamed, and so did the forcing cone, (They were). And there was the original hammer in the box. And, it was the 'right' price.

SO, Excellent piece to try more, of the, .460, (Bottle neck) cases. Found 12 straight wall ones, and loaded them up. Just used a fiber wad, (.070 Nitro) over the powder, And, (because I did not want excessive leading in this one), A, 'wad', of just double wrap, brown paper. It held, 235 g of 7.5's. Necked down, so it would fit in the, NOT, altered cyl. then a 44 gas check for over shot wad.
(Because the cyl is longer, cutting new cases, and using GC's on both ends, with one wrap, of coffee filter paper, just guessing, could be, 260-270 g of 7.5's).
NO, Extractions Problems at all, None.
(5 grains of a popular fast burning powder, which has been around for a LONG time)
Did try two more, that were a wee bit longer, which I had already necked down. So used the 44 gas check, over the powder, no wad, and gas check over the shot. 290g 7.5's.

Have not tried this gun with single projectiles yet. Will find something that works. But now I know the, Bottle Neck, .460 cases work Well, in this firearm. Have no desire to ream out this Cyl

Top photo, top case, is a un fired case, necked too deep, bottom case, is after firing. The top part of that case is formed, to the cyl. Can't see it in the photo, but the next part, is just slightly, larger. (Between the top and and the bottom of the case).

Try, some .460 brass, cut off to length of cyl, for a full brass, 'shot charge'.
Neck it down so it will fit. (.45 C)
And if your shooting style, works with, a Cardboard or other disagrating, over shot wad. Great.
(As, 'Mikey' always said, "Try it, you'll Like it"). LOL

Just may, keep this one, use both types of ammo. (Cut down, 'Bottle neck', .460 cases) and Reg cases with single projectile. One gun then, double duty.

Don't want to do these in a Colt's, or NIB, Ruger, (old) Birdshead, Vaquero.

But this one, is better than the reamed out cyl, purBurity, and, won't 'destroy' it.
And not so expensive, as a Colt. And, I can carry 6, not 5.

And if it shoots, 'boolets' well.
Well then, One uberty, up for sale, (with the reamed out cyl)


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[yondering]

What are you using to crimp those cases? The top one looks similar to what I get with the RCBS 45 ACP shotshell seat/crimp die.

Got any pics of the patterns you get with that setup? I'll try to post some as well.

[MnSpring]

What are you using to crimp those cases? The top one looks similar to what I get with the RCBS 45 ACP shotshell seat/crimp die. Got any pics of the patterns you get with that setup? I'll try to post some as well.

The crimp, is just a old die, don’t even know what it is or what it was for.

I clamped it in a vice, put a tapered stone in the chuck,
and just made a ‘funnel’. When I had the shape
Then wrapped a cloth, in polishing grip, (Clover 240)
And used it, between the die and taper grinding wheel, (Dremmel type)
Until it was smooth.
(Changing the patch and adding compound, several times)
So It just, ’tapers’ the outside if the case, in.
The deeper the top, (GC) is, the ‘rounder', the crimp.
Have used it for 357/44/45C

(A 444 or 44 crimp die will work also)

As you can see, in the shot one, their is a bit of crimp, than didn’t totally un-fold.
Guessing it is the low pressure, (about 700fps)
That is what I usually strive for, in a loaded case.

No patterns of the, bottle neck, .460 case. Just want to see how they fired.

Did Lots of patterns, when started, with the .444 cases,
The 357 cases, were really anemic, 44's were just a bit better, 45C cases a little better yet, but the full length .460's I like. (as to pattern) In the reamed out 45C cylinder.
however never took photos.

When get a, rountuit, I’ll post some photos of the ‘bottle’ neck .460 cases.

[yondering]

Here are a couple pictures of my shotshells; these are for the 460 S&W, using shortened 444 Marlin brass (no modifications to the case head needed). The short necked down portion is caused by the RCBS shotshell die, which also forms the crimp and seats the card wad over the shot column.

The second pic shows the pattern at 5 yards. For lack of some common size reference, I traced my hand. Aim point was at the X in the center of the palm. This is ~210 grains of #7-1/2 shot fired at 1,000 fps.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c26/zthang43/Bang/Misc/460%20shot%20shell.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c26/zthang43/Bang/Misc/460%20shot%20pattern.jpg

[Andy]

I have been wanting to do this exact project for a while and I'm very glad to have the data you guys posted here, really gets me motivated to start doing it. I bought some 444 brass a couple years ago for this and got the 410 wads last year, so maybe this is the year I actually get around to it.

[dougader]

I've been doing this with old FA 454 brass since about Apr/May of last year. I thought of 460 S&W brass, too, but have never followed up. Another guy used the 45 Colt blank brass from Starline for his.

The Speer plastic shot capsules are too expensive, too fragile and aren't any good past about 8-9 feet. And the shot payload is significantly less.

Very cool, fellas! I love your work!

[besk]

Concerning the use of .460 S&W brass for shot loads in the 45 LC. To fit in my 10 inch Thompson Contender 45 Colt barrel (which has a recess cut for the rim) they will not fit as is and therefore the rim has to be reduced in size.

The rim thickness and diameter of 460 S&W brass is slightly different from 45 Colt. Thickness is .060 vs .059 and diameter of .520 vs .512 (in inches.)

[257X50]

To the OP with the reamed cylinder.

A shorter length of rifling spins the shot less.

So......make a paradox barrel. Team out the barrel and leave an inch of rifling at the end....
Or just lap out most of the rifling with lapping compound

[M-Tecs]

https://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/what-is-a-paradox-gun/#:~:text=Put%20simply%2C%20a%20Paradox%20Gun%20is% 20a%20shotgun,of%20rifling%20to%20the%20choke%20on %20a%20shotgun.

[257X50]

Thank you Ol Buddy