Crown Issue?

[JohnH]

I have an Encore with a 280 Remington barrel. Won't shoot for hoot. 3" groups at 75 yards. As I was putting the gun away this evening I noticed that the lube star at the muzzle appeared misform, it wasn't even was missing a "leg". I took a Q-tip and drug it from inside the muzzle to outside but nothing stuck, indicating there were no burrs on the inside of the muzzle but I then took a paper clip, unwound it so I could use just an edge of the wire to feel for a burr standing on the muzzle. Sure 'nuff there is a catch on that side of the muzzle as i try to push the edge of the wire into the muzzle. Also, TC uses a recessed crown with a flat area of the muzzle lower than the outside edge of the barrel. On my other barrels, this lower flat area is flat. But on this barrel it is convex in shape. I wonder if the crown does not need a touch up. Any suggestions far a tool?

[Scharfschuetze]

You're probably on to the solution of your accuracy problem.

It's beyond me why the factories can't cut a straight crown, but it's not uncommon. I've had to recrown a couple of weapons over the years and that usually fixed things. Often a crown that is lopsided can cause some serious windage or elevation problems too.

[Echo]

Historically a large, round-headed, brass screw was used to refresh a crown. Chucked in a drill, a dab of 600-grit, and spin it around in the crown area to refresh. I've never done it, so I'm just reporting, not suggesting...

[Yodogsandman]

Now would be a good time to check out Thompson Center Arms lifetime warranty. Give them a chance to fix it, call them.

[DougGuy]

Yep, time to make that call. The two best ways other than using a ball and you are not guaranteed concentricity nor square with the center, would be a lathe or a piloted cutter like the Manson unit. I use the Manson mandrel, and a NeWay carbide 20° cutter that is actually a valve seat cutter for a Yamaha engine. It is the Bee's Knees for crowning a muzzle. I do not have the mandrel that will fit your bore or I could do it. They are $45 I think.

[leeggen]

Good luck with the TC lifetime warrenty.Sense They were bought out they will not back up anything purchased before the buy out. I beleive it was S&W.
CD

[country gent]

The brass round head screw is good find one that is a close match top the crown on your rifle. I dont use a drill but perfer to do this job by hand. On a new crown untouched I start with 320 grit on the head. I put a dab on a metal plate and roll head in it with farily heavy hand pressure. This helps to impregnate the grit into the brass head. I then roll the head against the crown in a back and forth motion and switch to a figure 8 pattern every so often. I work down to 600 or 800 grit then finish with flitz or simichrome. In 280 remington a 45 cal copper jacket round nose might be about right also. I insert a patch an 1" or so below the muzzle ( keeps frit from getting into bore to far). Clean and check often, check with a magnifier lense if possible. a light coat of ink or layout fluid will show dings and low spots also as your lapping.

[Texas by God]

I have shortened lots of rifle barrels with hand tools only and start the crown with a RCBS chamfer tool and finish with the brass screw and lapping compound. Of course they are not perfect but I've never lost accuracy and sometimes gained it. Best, Thomas.

[BCB]

I don’t know if the crown might be the problem or not, but I have an Encore barrel in 308 Winchester cartridge and it will not shoot cast worth a damn—it is pretty lousy for the most part. This issue has been pretty much discussed on the website with good advice, but nothing seems to help with the accuracy issue…

It will shoot copper to a fair degree, but you will not have many groups to brag about…

I contacted T/C and I was told I would need to send the complete rifle to have it evaluated. Whatever on that. They might have their reasons, but I honestly think it is to discourage people from returning them—just my negative opinion. But when I have attempted almost all options, powders, boolits, primers, etc., etc. and it still shoots unacceptable—the negative outlook can appear…

If you do contact T/C, post what they wish to do to resolve the issue…

I have attached a pic of the crown on my Encore barrel and the “star” looks pretty good, so that part of the rifle barrel probably isn’t the problem, at least, with my barrel…

Good-luck…BCB

[Tatume]

Good luck with the TC lifetime warrenty.Sense They were bought out they will not back up anything purchased before the buy out. I beleive it was S&W.CD

This is not true.

Recently I returned a Contender frame manufactured in the last century. They worked on it without question, and called me to talk for about half an hour. Since S&W bought T/C they have continued warranty service. It makes good sense to keep your customers happy.

[Tatume]

I contacted T/C and I was told I would need to send the complete rifle to have it evaluated. Whatever on that. They might have their reasons, but I honestly think it is to discourage people from returning them—just my negative opinion.

Recently I returned a Contender frame that was made in the last century. S&W took it apart and found nothing wrong. The tech called and we talked for about half an hour. We determined the problem was probably in the barrel, not the frame. They asked me to ship the barrel so they could fix it. This is why they want the whole gun, so as to not waste their shop time.

[BCB]

Recently I returned a Contender frame that was made in the last century. S&W took it apart and found nothing wrong. The tech called and we talked for about half an hour. We determined the problem was probably in the barrel, not the frame. They asked me to ship the barrel so they could fix it. This is why they want the whole gun, so as to not waste their shop time.

Well, maybe so, but I will hold off until the very last minute to send an entire firearm back to T/C. I am sure they will change the non-factory hammer spring back to their 10-pound pull spring. I got it down to about 5+ pounds with the Bellm spring--still garbage pull, but infinitely better than factory. And since it was not an easy job for me to change it (some claim they have done it in less than 15 minutes--NOT ME!!!), I sure don't want to take it out, reinstall the factory, remove the factory again and reinstall the after market...

I am almost 100% sure the problem with mine is the barrel. Hell, it wouldn't even extract a case and I slugged it and the boolit had resistance for a bit, then almost no resistance...

Plus, I called a tech a couple of months ago and requested a couple of springs for another receiver I have. I even gave the guy the part number. I got the wrong spring about 2 weeks later--I had a 'smith make me one...

But hey, maybe they are better at looking at the entire firearm...

I think I might try a handgun barrel on my Encore receiver and see if it has problems...

Good-luck...BCB

[Blackwater]

Well, Doug Guy and the rest give good advice, but if none of the things listed make you feel froggy, there's an old "country boy" remedy that you can try, that I've personally seen quite a few rifles turn from being rock throwers into thread the needle shooters. It'll sound just AWFUL to many, as it did to me when a friend told and show it to me. He had to do it about 4 times on 4 different rifles for me to finally "see the light," and I STILL won't let him touch MY guns with the tool he uses. But seeing is believing, even if we don't always understand what we see at times. Here's what I do now:

When a rifle won't shoot, and I know it's bedded well, I get one of those "bullet shaped" grinding rocks from Lowe's or wherever, that you chuck in a drill bit. I put it in a drill and turn it against my belt sander so as to even it up and make it much closer to perfectly concentric. Then I cut 1" squares of 400 & 600 wet or dry sandpaper, fold them in half, and then fold then again, making a 1/2" appx. square. Then I open it up to make a sort of "cone" and slip that over the point of the bit in the drill. Start with new 400 if you want to add a little depth to the crown. Place it in the muzzle, holding the paper against the rock with a finger, and center it in the muzzle. Then align the drill as best you can (a good eye helps here) and quickly depress and release the trigger 3 times. Reverse drill and go the other way 3 more quick spurts. Then take the 400 off and replace with a like piece of worn 400, then with 600, and finally, worn 600. this will give you a nice, sparkly new crown, and there'll be NO burrs on it at all. I usually make a small circle at the back end of the drill as I pull the trigger, but only 2-3" dia.

And yeah, I KNOW it sounds hinky and awful. But as I said, seeing is believing, and my buddy and I have done probably 50 or more rifles like this, and have NEVER seen it damage a single one, EVER! Like all things done with the hands, it depends and relys on the doer, of course, but done right and carefully (no pressure on the bit when turning it), it has literally transformed some guns like you won't believe if I tell you, like going from 3"+ to 1/2 MOA shooteers WITH NO OTHER TREATMENT OF VARIABLE DONE TO THE RIFLE!

And FWIW, it still gives me a bit of butterflies when I do this, but I have no hesitation in trying it. Saves money shipping, and I doubt any factories would notice it if it doesn't work. I've only had 2 rifles not respond to this, and one was a Ruger Ultralight .257 Roberts, and I loved that rifle! Rebedded it 3x, and did everything I knew to do to get it to shoot, and it STILL couldn't beat 2 MOA consistently, and I won't keep one that can't do MOA or better very long. So I sent that one down the line, and the guy who got it wasn't a good enough shot to tell the difference, but liked its size, wt. and low recoil, so ... he loves it. Kills some deer with it, too! I guess I'm a prig about accuracy, but I've earned it righteously. Another was a M-7 Rem, again a very lwt. barrel, and it did just like my UL Ruger, and responded to nothing. Bedded and crowned as above, it would beat 2 MOA with handloads, but not with factory. That guy let that one go on down the line also, and a guy who bought it shot backwoods stands where 50 yds. would be a long shot, so the accuracy level was no problem for him.

One of the first guns I did this was was an old Ruger 10/22 Deluxe (checkered real walnut stock) I got my son. At first, the BEST it would do was 1 3/8" at 25 yds! That's nowhere NEAR what small game needs for quick kills, and I bedded it and it still wouldn't do any better than 1 3/8" at 25. I crowned it, and it immediately and with the same ammo, did 3/8" at 25! Needless to say, I was pleased, and my son shot that rifle for many years, and killed all sorts of stuff with it, and a few at ridiculous range, too! He's commented many times how he'd like to have that one and an old Marlin M-39M I redid for him. Both were amazingly accurate, and both got the re-crown treatment, if you can call it that?

All I can certify is that properly done (it's simple, really) it mostly just de-burrs the muzzle. It's been proven by a nationally renowned benchrester in actual physical tests, that cut a very accurate barrel off at progressively stronger angles, up to @ 30 degrees IIRC (?), that the angled muzzle mostly only changed POI, but group sizes stayed pretty well constant, and they were measuring much more closely than any average shooter will ever measure.

I have ZERO problems with a well, lathe-done crown, but cutters DO leave tiny marks (is that the reason some rifles need to be "shot in" a while before giving their best groups?) and there's always the chance of an inclusion at the crown, which will affect its symmetry. All I can testify to is it just flat works, is quick and easy to do with common household tools, and I just HATE entrusting my guns to the vagaries of the mailman or UPS. Last time I paid extra to FedEx when I shipped a valued gun to someone. I tend to treat my guns as though they were "human" and had lives of their own, though, or at least the ones I really care for, so I guess I'm a little weird about that?

Just another option, but not one for the Doubting Thomases (like I was) or those without a stout heart. But try it on an old .22 or something, and see what it can do. That's a place where years of use has put dings on the muzzles, and most would say the old gun is "shot out," but given a new, smooth crown, many of them have been resurrected into gilt edged shooters! I still have a hard time believing what I've seen it do, even after doing well over 50 guns like this! I guess I'm just a really hard core agnostic, even AFTER seeing it work so often?

[Texas by God]

I'll bet Harry Pope hand crowned his barrels. Just sayin'. Best, Thomas.

[44man]

I silver soldered ball bearings to rods to use as laps like lapping valve seats by hand. I have a selection for bore sizes. Never liked the brass screws. The brass cuts itself while a bearing will not wear much and stays centered better. A crown does not have to be deep, just even. I usually cut the barrel with a hacksaw, File perfect and leave flat. Then lap the lands to blend to the grooves. All that is needed. My gunsmith friend asked if I crowned my rifle until he looked close. It will take 410 shells off the 100 yard rail all day. All the fancy "target" crowns are silly unless you drag the muzzle over rocks.

[Tackleberry41]

I broke down not long ago and bought a 90 degree crown cutter. One of the PTG units, no guides came with it. Being 90 degree and 1 in dia, it will crown pretty much anything. I have a lathe so the guides are not so much of an issue and saves paying $20 ea for them. A brass rod to cut down was less than $10 and usually gets me 5. I make them as I need them.

I know I have a lathe so why a tool, but a lathe really only works if you can take the barrel out or its long enough to go thru the head stock. A cheap mosin usually not worth such efforts. Now that I have the tool it gets used often and was worth the investment.

Factory crowns it really depends. I see some really nice ones, and some questionable ones.