powder charge clarification for cast .223

[desiderio1008]

Hello, friends - hoping someone can point me in the right direction:

I am just getting ready to load .223 with Hodgdon CFE 223 and powder coated 55 gr. cast boolits. Hodgdon's load data did not have an option for cast boolits, so I turned to my Lyman manual (latest edition), which had two non-FMJ specs. What surprised me is that the cast specs called for roughly 9 gr. of charge, vs something like 18 gr. for FMJ. Compared to my experience with pistol loads, this seemed like an extreme difference to me and got me thinking that I might be doing something wrong or misinterpreting the data. My castings were made with the Lee C-225-55-RF. Does all this sound right? Any help or guidance is greatly appreciated, thanks!

[tazman]

Typically, cast bullets are not run at jacketed velocity in rifles designed for high velocity jacketed bullets, hence the difference in the powder charges. Depending on caliber, weight, and intended usage, the velocities for cast boolits may run anywhere from 1100 fps to 2400 fps. They also tend to use different powders.
Several members on this site have worked out techniques to shoot cast at substantially higher velocities than were normal a decade or 2 ago. Do some research on the site about high velocity with cast and you will get some answers.

[NyFirefighter357]

Go check out what the guys are doing with powder coated(PC) boolits.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Does your Lyman manual have data for load pressure ?
The Lyman castbullet handbook does...look at the pressure differences in the loads you are looking at.
then read through this (which is also linked at the bottom of every castboolits page)
http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm
you'll see what pressure that various bullet alloys can take...that is the main reason for the download, now if you heat treat or use harder alloys, you can shoot loads with higher pressures.
Good Luck

[desiderio1008]

Tazman, NyFirefighter & JonB: sincere thanks for your responses. I will look into your suggestions and get rolling.

[Boolseye]

Shooting cast in rifle caliber a such as .223 is economical and versatile.
I use standard powders (RL 7, 4895, VV530, Varget, etc.), downloaded by several grains as compared to jacketed data. I have also used 296 with good success. I also use a dacron filler as per Larry Gibson's expertise, it makes a difference in accuracy with the lower charges. Do a search on the subject and you should come up with many threads. A good rule of thumb with AR platforms is the best accuracy is achieved around where the gun starts to cycle, though it's often not bad at higher velocities. I have found the .223 to be more forgiving than other calibers at high velocities with cast. I use the NOE clone of the rcbs 225-55, much like the Lee version you have. Good luck (can't speak to pc boolits).

[robg]

I'm using that mold and playing with true blue behind it 6.5 gr seems to be best so far ,just fine tuning a target load for the fun of it and to prove to myself I can get close to .22 mag for cheap shooting.

[Tackleberry41]

I was pondering the same sort of thing today, how hard can you drive a PC bullet? We all have a lyman manual or 2, but all their data is based on a standard cast lubed bullet. PC really changes things.

[runfiverun]

p/c is just slicker so it goes faster with the same loads.
unfortunately you just took a round boolit and turned it into a lop sided off center boolit.
they don't fly real straight when they are off balance, and trying to make them do it faster makes it worse.

[Tackleberry41]

p/c is just slicker so it goes faster with the same loads.
unfortunately you just took a round boolit and turned it into a lop sided off center boolit.
they don't fly real straight when they are off balance, and trying to make them do it faster makes it worse.


Um what?

Pretty sure most who PC know how a sizer works, I size mine before and AFTER PC, so they aint out of round.

[Rickshaw]

Are you just pc'ing or are you using gas checks also. I'm very interested
in this, as I have a 1/7 twist and I'm considering cast and pc only.

[Boolseye]

Are you just pc'ing or are you using gas checks also. I'm very interested
in this, as I have a 1/7 twist and I'm considering cast and pc only.

Gas checks, no PC. 1/9 twist.


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[Jal5]

My problem with that small boolit using the NOE version is deviations in weight mess up the accuracy. I resorted to weighing and separating in batches. Using RE 7. Just started testing with cfe223. GC and regular lube for my AR. PLINKING load accuracy with RE 7.

[Boolseye]

I use a little dacron with light loads of RL7 or 4895, what have you. Bumps accuracy up a bit.

[Tackleberry41]

You do have to weigh cast bullets to get accuracy. They can vary alot, that adds to velocity variations, and no telling why one is heavier or lighter, out of balance and they wont shoot good. I got really good results out of an old worn out Mosin, by ensuring all the bullets were the same weight. I would end up with 6fps ES and very small groups.

I have been playing with PC cast 223 recently. First in my hornet and now the 223. I simply used published min data for jacketed. Was getting 400fps boosts over jacketed with the hornet. These were bullets cast from wheel weights with no extra heat treating involved.

[MGnoob]

Imo, the big thing with casting .223 like any other reloading is the intended use and desired results.

When someone wants to start casting .223 one of the first questions that pops in my mind is semi auto(or full auto) or bolt gun.

If its bolt gun, there is so much data available in manuals, and online and high accuracy at low speed is achievable and function of the gun is never an issue.

If its a semi or full auto, it needs to cycle or you might as well use a bolt gun.
The issue lies with the volume of the .223 round as related to how your gun is tuned/setup.Yes you can build a gun to shoot low volicity cast, but then you loose versitility of the firearm and you ammo will only function that gun and your bolt guns..

To get where you ned to be to have general use ammo they have to be cranking pretty fast, that coupled with the low weight of the .223 projectiles makes slight variations in weight destroy accuarcy if your trying for MOA. Never mind handleing the little buggers is not that pleasant.

So to really offer any input we'd need to know, what your planning to use them for and what your expectation/goals are.. if your only shooting 100 yards blasting your good to pretty much just start loading.