Manufacturing projectiles

[Sam209]

Hi I'm new to the forum and the casting and reloading world.
I was wondering if anyone knew the steps and process of manufacturing a projectile to selling it in store shelves.
I'm talking like a whole new type of defensive or hunting round.

[bangerjim]

"Manufacturing"? "Projectiles"? Well.........we generally cast these little lead slugs that we call boolits. Does that count?

Not sure what you are asking. It is pretty much illegal to make and sell ammo around these parts without a federal license. Are you in the USA? You need to put your general location in your profile. That really helps answering questions.

Please provide a little clearer info so we can help you

banger

[DougGuy]

Well, my first thoughts were.. A week after Obozo signs his Executive Order mandating that basically scratching one's butt can be considered "manufacturing" if it is done with a firearm part, here comes a new profile and their first question is one about manufacturing..... Hmmm the word starts with a T right? 173675

[Electric88]

Get an FFL.

[runfiverun]

you don't need the firearms ffl you need the manufacturing ffl and have to pay taxes on each boolit/bullet manufactured [not sold] manufactured.
so all your oopsies cost money.
other than that a business license and the normal checks by the fire marshal etc and your good to go.
the selling part is usually no problem, talk to your local gun shops, hit the gun shows, pay your sales tax.

now how it really works.
you gotta make and sell about 50 metric butt loads of boolits a week to turn a nickels worth of profit.
your time needs to be spent selling your product not making it.
keeping the orders of products going out and materials coming in have to be lined out properly, customer service and product quality will make or break you.
and don't forget to sign up for obamacare.

[OS OK]

Thats a shakey question, new signee, no info...I wouldn't bite!

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Sam,
Welcome to the forum.

"if anyone knew the steps and process of manufacturing a projectile to selling it in store shelves."
That is kind of a WIDE open question...the simple answer is, I suspect many of us here do know.


"I'm talking like a whole new type of defensive or hunting round."
This is a interesting statement. Most of the time, especially in the Shooting world, there isn't anything new under the sun. (paraphrasing Solomon)


You should tell us you idea, or is it a secret?

[Smoke4320]

If in the US. Register with ATF as a Manufacturer 07 $150.00 a year
Itar registration $2250.00 a year
1 Million + insurance policy xxx.xx a year
And on and on before you produce the first rd
All this plus the tax per projectile

[Sam209]

"Manufacturing"? "Projectiles"? Well.........we generally cast these little lead slugs that we call boolits. Does that count?

Not sure what you are asking. It is pretty much illegal to make and sell ammo around these parts without a federal license. Are you in the USA? You need to put your general location in your profile. That really helps answering questions.

Please provide a little clearer info so we can help you

banger

Yes am from the states. Oregon to be exact. And Im Talking about just a projectile. Not a loaded round of ammunition.

[Sam209]

It's kind of a secret. All I can really say about it is it's going to be a copper plated lead projectile. I know how I want it to look and perform I just dont know how to get started.

[Sam209]

If in the US. Register with ATF as a Manufacturer 07 $150.00 a year
Itar registration $2250.00 a year
1 Million + insurance policy xxx.xx a year
And on and on before you produce the first rd
All this plus the tax per projectile

Would this apply for me if all I manufacturer is the projectiles alone and not loaded as live ammunition?

[Sam209]

Sorry if I spooked some of you for being g a new user with little info on the profile. I'll update it soon.

[bangerjim]

You will notice, since you are posting in the wrong section ("testing"), your post count is not increasing as it should. This area is intended for a one-time use to test a post with attachments or pictures or such.

If you want your count to get going, post your questions in the correct areas in other parts of the forum.

banger

[Sam209]

Well, my first thoughts were.. A week after Obozo signs his Executive Order mandating that basically scratching one's butt can be considered "manufacturing" if it is done with a firearm part, here comes a new profile and their first question is one about manufacturing..... Hmmm the word starts with a T right? 173675

I want to get started with manufacturing just the projectile without case powder or primer. Yeah I'm new but I wanted to get started somewhere. I had this idea for a couple of years now and I want to get it started before someone else thinks of my design. And I have yet to see anything on the market that resembles what is have in mind.

[Sam209]

You will notice, since you are posting in the wrong section ("testing"), your post count is not increasing as it should. This area is intended for a one-time use to test a post with attachments or pictures or such.

If you want your count to get going, post your questions in the correct areas in other parts of the forum.

banger

Sorry I'm new. I would very much appreciate it if you could direct me to the right section of the forums for this post.

[bangerjim]

Sorry I'm new. I would very much appreciate it if you could direct me to the right section of the forums for this post.

Try "Bullet Casting and Reloading" section. And then mabe "Cast Boolits".

banger

[Sam209]

Thanks. I'll post a link on this post when I repost this to that section.

[DerekP Houston]

sounds like an interesting idea, looking forward to the follow up

[Sam209]

Hi I'm new to the forum and the casting and reloading world.
I was wondering if anyone knew the steps and process of manufacturing a projectile to selling it in store shelves.
I'm talking like a whole new type of defensive or hunting round.

[Sam209]

I posted this to the testing area section but got some advice to move it here. Link to the original post.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?312859-Manufacturing-projectiles

[Sam209]

I just reposted this to a different section of the forums. Please reply there. Thanks.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?312912-Manufacturing-projectiles&p=3733068#post3733068

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I just merged your two discussion threads.

[Sam209]

I just merged your two discussion threads.

Thanks

[Smoke4320]

To my understanding Yes this applies to projectiles if you are in business to sell them

[GRUMPA]

It doesn't matter if your making just the projectile, you still have to pay. They have it set up to where it'll cost you right around $5-7K before the first boolit even gets sold.

Me....personally......wont even consider it.

You think your going to get rich off of your ideas and hard work ? Believe me the powers to be will make more than you, and your going to work hard for them too.

[Sam209]

To my understanding Yes this applies to projectiles if you are in business to sell them

So while I'm in the process of perfecting and testing it would not apply to me?

[Sam209]

It doesn't matter if your making just the projectile, you still have to pay. They have it set up to where it'll cost you right around $5-7K before the first boolit even gets sold.

Me....personally......wont even consider it.

You think your going to get rich off of your ideas and hard work ? Believe me the powers to be will make more than you, and your going to work hard for them too.

Well if I could get the concept to work how I want it to then I will go about patenting it and marketing it.

[alfloyd]

"So while I'm in the process of perfecting and testing it would not apply to me?"

Not till you want to sell any projectiles, Then it will be required.

Lafaun

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

It's kind of a secret. All I can really say about it is it's going to be a copper plated lead projectile. I know how I want it to look and perform I just dont know how to get started.
Secret huh?
I was being sarcastic when I mentioned that.
Do you know how absurd it seems to me, that some one would go to a worldwide internet hobby forum and ask how to make something, that you are imagining, but you aren't gonna explain it, because it's a secret?


I got an idea too, maybe it's the same as your idea?
While I don't care how it looks, I do know how I want it to perform...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGZQi3ODB-U

[bangerjim]

Unobtanium alloy-based heat seeking self propelled incendiary smart programmable super-duper-sonic de-fractionating blutooth enabled WIFI-enhanced projectiles?

BINGO!!!!!!!

Been there - - - - done that.

[Smoke4320]

I was thinking space time continuum warping
Shoot it kill animal then travel back to recover the projectile just before the shot
Only need to buy one!!

[TXGunNut]

"...new to....reloading...."? If you're new to reloading and hoping to develop and market a product to reloaders you'll need to know a bit about reloading. You came to the right place to learn, some folks around here know quite a bit about reloading. You'll need to be patient, tho. After nearly 35 yrs of reloading I'm about to get the hang of it. Only been casting about seven years so around here I'm still a noob.
I wish you luck but it's hard to imagine a copper jacketed lead design that hasn't been tried.

[runfiverun]

okay you guy's we ain't gonna run him down.
this place was built on new ideas and discussing them.


after he researches his idea and asks some more questions I'm sure he is smart enough to decide whether to pursue the idea or not.
if not he might be willing to share his ideas here.

look at it this way.
I'm pretty sure the powder coat, and the gas check idea got scoffed at the first time it was shown to someone making their own boolits too, and look how they are doing.

[zubrato]

It's kind of a secret. All I can really say about it is it's going to be a copper plated lead projectile. I know how I want it to look and perform I just dont know how to get started.

LOL

I'm also working on a secret project, it's an object that's round, but flat with a hole through the center.
Don't tell nobody, ok?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Wayne Smith]

okay you guy's we ain't gonna run him down.
this place was built on new ideas and discussing them.


after he researches his idea and asks some more questions I'm sure he is smart enough to decide whether to pursue the idea or not.
if not he might be willing to share his ideas here.

look at it this way.
I'm pretty sure the powder coat, and the gas check idea got scoffed at the first time it was shown to someone making their own boolits too, and look how they are doing.

Five, we both know how the powder coat got scoffed, we both read those threads!

Yes, the whole focus of the various laws is the business end of the process. As long as you are in development and are not selling anything they don't apply, unless what you are doing is itself illegal or requires another permit (new silencer, etc.). As soon as you are talking about a business, making money, the laws apply. If you have a great idea and figure out how the manufacturing process would work you can develop it, sell it to Speer or Sierra or Hornaday, and walk away with whatever they think it is worth and never intersect with the law. They would handle all of this, and are set up to do it.

[bedbugbilly]

Welcome to the forum - good folks here and you'll enjoy it. I've just read this thread and not followed links, etc. so . .. .

First off, if your idea is a "new idea", I think I'd be doing a Patent search to see if it really is a "new idea". You can't protect what you don't patent and own.

You don't give a whole lot of information so . . .

Do you have business, manufacturing and marketing experience? Do you have the financial means to cover start up and to maintain production until sales kick in? Or do you have investors to back you that are willing to take the risk? Do you have the physical location in which to get set up and enough funds to cover your overhead until you start to turn a profit - most areas require proper zoning for manufacturing. And, do you have enough time or people to cover all aspects of product development, testing, book-keeping, manufacturing, marketing, etc.? And these are just the "business aspects" of a new undertaking.

Next . . do your research. Whether your are manufacturing completed ammunition or just projectiles, you need to contact the BATF and find those things out. Yearly licensing fees, liability insurance requirements, etc.?

While I applaud anyone who has a "dream" and wants to move on it and better themselves, don't go off "half-cocked". Lay these things out, completely research them and develop a business plan. Without that, you have no idea of how many units you need to turn out before you start to make a profit to keep the business going, let alone paying your everyday bills. That's not to say that you couldn't have a great and fantastic idea that will set the shooting/hunting world on fire . . . but if you don't have a patent on it, I doubt any big manufacturer is going to pay for it (you selling them your patent).

Lot's of things to think about and after having been in business all my life, sometimes the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence. Good luck to you and hope it all works out.

[toallmy]

Is it a donut ? Zubrato ...... all kidding aside Sam209 this is a great sight with a group of very knowledgeable and helpful people , good luck in your adventure , have you used the google search box at the top of the page .

[runfiverun]

I remember them well.
just getting them their own section took a bit of persuading showing it was something different and there was interest enough to set up a new section.

doesn't stop me from going in there and stirring things up every now and then just to see how much every one has perfected their process. :lol:

[Victor N TN]

I can't answer the question for TODAY... But in late 2000, my wife and I called and spoke to the ATF people and 2 young people with at least 10 years experience each came for a visit. After being with us a couple of hours and multiple calls to their office in Nashville, we were told to get a type 6 FFL... Just to be on the safe side.

Because of declining health we haven't been too active in years of late. But we want to try to pick things up.

As to how much...? It depends on the quality of projectiles you want to make. For making record breaking, jacketed, benchrest bullets I dropped between 12 and $15,000 to start... for the best equipment available at the time. Then came materials. Insurance is extra.

All I can say is call the ATF and ask them what's legal as of this date and time.

Seriously, Good luck.
Victor

[dverna]

If you think you have something new, you will need to get a patent attorney. Not your normal attorney. The patent attorney will do a patent search to determine if in fact have something new. He will also help write the patent in such a way that it will difficult for others to work around your idea and duplicate/mimic it.

I used patent attorneys quite a bit (I have six patents) and contributed on many more. Figure around 10-15k depending on the complexity and it will take months to go through the process.

You other option is to meet with one of the big bullet producing companies ... Speer, Hornady, Berger etc. First, have an attorney draft up a confidentiality agreement so they cannot steal your concept. If your idea has merit, they will run with it. They will pay for the patent attorney and already have a firm they use for their own developments. You may be better off taking a royalty from them. They have the means to produce in quantity with good quality. Their costs will be lower as they buy things in bulk. They already have the government paperwork done. They also have the insurance, customer service and distribution you need. And they have capital. BTW, even if they do not accept your idea you will lean a lot by meeting with them.

Do not listen to people who have never even run a lemonade stand profitably. Lots of naysayers our there but few who have done anything like you are attempting. There are some good people here who are in business. Reach out to someone like Buchanan. He is a good man and be may be able to provide insight.

Getting a product to market is not easy. I am a retired CEO of a manufacturing firm. I have walked the walk.

[Smoke4320]

You have received lots of good advice here ..
yes I should have mentioned patent attorney FIRST .. If you get a clear never before design/idea . run with it just be sure you have a good plan, know your costs first (as much as you can, then double your estimate and you will still be low )

[garym1a2]

You only need a patent if you don't want anyone to copy your design and are willing to goto court to protect it. If you write a patent you must write it so its difficult to get around. For instance if the patent is for a copper jacket design they could make it out of brass and make a copy.

[white eagle]

Manufacturing projectilesHuh, imagine that [smilie=w: