Chassepot boolet questions

[CJ_TnT]

Hello! I recently acquired a Chassepot rifle and have questions on what boolits to use. Most articles I've found say 45 cal boolits in pure lead are find to use. I've slugged the bore and it measures .4550 and .4365. I would like to use my lee 457-405-F mold. The problem is I don't know what the alloy make up I'm using and afraid it might be too hard for such an over sized boolit. The guy I got the lead from said it is "Plumbers lead" and I have about 240 lbs of the stuff. I can barely scratch it with my fingernail and it is finicky on poring temp. Has to be between 700 and 725 in order to get a good pour. Boolits drop at 405-408 grains consistently out of the 457-405-F mold.

Dose anyone have experience with hard alloys and large bore interference? I'm concerned that with too hard of an alloy I would damage the rifle or worse have a pipe bomb a few inches in front of my face. Recommendations or suggestions will be much appreciated!

Thanks!
Chuck

[runfiverun]

your 457 mold will probably make boolits closer to 458.
which would be just about right for the 4555 barrel.
as far as it causing a problem with pressure I think the rifle will handle the extra 600 psi without any difficulty.
lead has a substantially lower engraving pressure than copper does so it takes rifling easier [much easier]

the alloy 'plumbers lead' is bout as close to pure as your gonna get.
the temp indicates it may have some tin in it, but the alloy temp doesn't dictate the outcome.
the MOLD temp is what dictates how well the boolits will form.
if they seem to like the 725 pot temp I'd increase the casting tempo some and you'll gain a more consistent boolit from the deal as well as make them faster.
many just turn their pot temp up to 750 with aluminum molds. [and maintain a 3ish pours per minute rate]

I wouldn't even think twice about using what you have in hand there.
even if it's ww/lino-type or whatever alloy your in good shape.

I'd be more worried about my brass prep and looking for some starting loads.

[abunaitoo]

Is yours still needle????
I've been shooting mine for a while.
I use what ever lead I can find.
Size to bore. Lube with Lars Red. FF black powder. I'm looking for F.
Never had a problem.

[Mk42gunner]

There were a few threads about loading for the Chassepot in the BP section a year or two ago. There are also a couple of decent videos on youtube about making the paper cartridges.

Good luck, I think one of those could be a lot of fun once you get it working.

Robert

[Bigslug]

No to toot my own horn too loudly, but here is what I've learned to date: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?286848-Mle-1866-Chassepot-Cartridge-Construction-DIY-Insanity!

The easiest way to get a notion of what your "plumbers lead" is would be to air cool some bullets, water drop some others and see if there is a difference in hardness. The bullets of the Chassepot's time were lead/tin and won't heat-treat to a harder BHN. If you've got antimony on board, the ones you splash will be harder. Being originally a paper patch cartridge, softer is probably what it wants.

Accurate Molds is happily offering the very thing: http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=46-365C-D.png

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Yes, the thread quoted by Bigslug contains about as much thoughtful first-hand experience on the Chassepot as you are likely to find anywhere. Here are a couple more, which go into more detail on the obturator arrangement:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?284273-Any-French-Chassepots-out-there

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/archive/index.php/t-284273.html

Here is a site in France which offers a rather expensive version of the Chassepot obturator, and I get an offer to translate it at the top which may derive from having the Google toolbar. Not that I think this much money and trouble is the way to go, as there are ways of making it with far better rubber than was available in 1870. But the picture may be useful.

http://www.naturabuy.fr/Copie-joint-obturateur-caoutchouc-Fusil-Carabine-Mousqueton-Chassepot-1866-1867-item-3214682.html

Mainly out of interest here are a couple of moulds. They aren't as close to the original as is suggested, and I can't tell whether they have the slightly conical shape of the original Chassepot bullet, which the Accurate mould posted by Bigslug does. That is important in a rifle with no case to align the bullet with the bore. The Naturabuy site does have a few minor Chassepot spares.

http://www.naturabuy.fr/moule-balle-CHASSEPOT-item-3193546.html

http://www.naturabuy.fr/moule-balle-CHASSEPOT-item-3193546.html

The importance of brass preparation is much reduced by the fact that there isn't any, apart from the cap. I think your battle will be to secure reliable ignition, and in making the right things happen with the remains of the case. It isn't really combustible, and there will be a tendency for pieces to remain in the chamber or stay irregularly attached to the bullet.

The Chassepot isn't an easy rifle to get working very well. The bullet is swaged down very considerably in entering a bore with an extreme difference between land and grooves. Like the hexagonal-bore Whitworth muzzle-loader, they incurred disadvantages in giving the bullet many times more grip on the rifling than it needed. As luck would have it the Franco-Prussian war occurred at a time when the Germans, in an age when smallarms technology was advancing as fast as the computer today, got caught a decade short. But that piece of luck wasn't enough.

Still, for the enthusiast of today, as Dr. Johnson said, if a man teach his cat to play the fiddle, the wonder is not that it is done badly, but that it is done at all.

[CJ_TnT]

Thank you everyone for the info! Made copies of everything I could. Mine is still a needle rifle. I did the are cool vs water drop test and there was a considerable difference in hardness. I typically water drop all my cast but I suppose I'll air cool for this rifle. Hoping to try it out this weekend! Thanks again!Chuck