Loading Speer shot shell capsules

[snowwolfe]

I just bought some Speer shot shell capsules in .44 and .45 calibers. Plan on using them in my 44 mag and 45 Colt. I don't have any shot on hand so I bought a box of cheap 12 gauge ammo at Walmart for $6, size 8 shot as I couldn't find anything with #9.
Anyone have some reloading data they could share for using the #8 shot?
Thanks

[labradigger1]

Shot size doesn't matter for load data as you cannot increase the weight of the filled capsule. The Speer boxes usually have powder data on the sides of the box.
#9 is pretty large for shot shells in hand guns.

[snowwolfe]

#9 is pretty large for shot shells in hand guns.

I didn't know they made and sold shot smaller than #9. What size would you recommend?

[labradigger1]

12-14 aka dust

[376Steyr]

I didn't know they made and sold shot smaller than #9. What size would you recommend?
You can get shot down to #12, see here: http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Magnum-Chilled-Lead-Shot/products/68/
CCI loads most of their shotshells with #9, though you can get a 9mm loaded with #12. http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/pestcontrol_specialty.aspx

[snowwolfe]

If CCI uses #9 perhaps I should stick with the same size. Unless anyone has first hand knowledge smaller sizes would kill better

[Scharfschuetze]

7 1/2, 8 or 9 shot sizes work well. I've used these sizes for years on small vermin and rattle snakes in several handgun calibres as well as the 45/70. Rifled barrels spin the shot charge and thus patterns open up pretty fast due to centrifugal force. Small shot (more pellets per given weight) is best to keep patterns dense enough to hit small things, but you also need a shot size that holds its energy at target. It's a compromise, but 8s or 9s do it pretty well and will kill snakes to jack rabbits at 15 feet or so when fired out of a handgun.

[snowwolfe]

Good info. If #9 will kill a jack rabbit at 10 feet it should kill a snake.

[Scharfschuetze]

I always keep a few bags of #9 and #8 handy as I shoot skeet with 410 and 28 gauges. The 8s and 9s work perfectly for that, so I'm never at a loss for those sizes when making up handgun shot loads.

As noted above, there should be loading info on the box, but if not, Bullseye or any other fast powder works pretty well.

[Duster340]

I've had good results with #9 shot in both 44 special and 44 mag on paper plates, clay pigeons and pop cans out to 10 feet or so. Surprisingly my 2-1/2" Bulldog patterns better than my 4" 629.

[Travelor]

My strongly recommendation is #12 shot. I have used it for years and it is far more deadly on snakes than larger shot. When shot with #12, a snake just seems to take a last breath and then goes limp - no movement at all. With larger shot that is not the case and sometimes take a second or third shot to kill.

I have also found that the short barrel handguns shoot shot better that long barrel guns. My thought is that the longer barrel guns tend to spin the shot more causing the shot column to open up more. Also along that same line, I have found that light loads pattern better and kill better because of it. My load for my 38's(I know you were asking about 44's) is 2 grains of bullseye.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/814885/bpi-lead-shot-12-10-lb-bag

(https://www.midwayusa.com/product/814885/bpi-lead-shot-12-10-lb-bag)

[Half Dog]

I have a pdf that might be what you are looking for. Send me an email address and I'll send it to ya.

[mold maker]

I hate to buy a full package of 500 wads just to make a couple doz snake shot in 45 ACP. Is there any place that sells samples? The BP shot column with no cushion is what I need.

[snowwolfe]

I hate to buy a full package of 500 wads just to make a couple doz snake shot in 45 ACP. Is there any place that sells samples? The BP shot column with no cushion is what I need.

Speer shot capsules are sold in boxes of 25. I bought mine from Midway.

[Thin Man]

+1 on Travelor's recommendation for #12 shot. I have found that larger shot (yes, even #9) has less ability to penetrate a snake's skin. That is not the case with #12, it just zips right in and snakes go instantly still.

You might consider buying a 10 pound bag from Ballistic Products (believe this is the smallest bag they offer). Keep 2 pounds for yourself as it will keep you supplied for ever. Then offer the remaining shot in 1 pound bags on the S&S board, expect you will get more hits than you can supply.

Thin Man

[Dale53]

I have been making and using shotshells in my handguns for many, many years. I often backpacked and canoed in snake country. After many experiments, my "go to" method is to use Speer Shot capsules loaded a bit on the light side (starting load) using #12 shot. As Travelor pointed out, #12 is MUCH more effective. The patterns are far denser simply because you are throwing LOTS of shot. The range is close (I have shredded snakes heads at 20 feet and killed feral cats at much greater distance).

#12 is IT!!

FWIW,
Dale53

[olafhardt]

Here is my protocol for testing snake loads.
1) Drive down rural dirt ( paved ones cause ricochets) roads till you see a snake.
2) Approach the snake to about 10 feet.
3) Shoot at snakes head.
4) If snake dies right there the test is successful.

My snake blasting load is the CCI #12 shot shell in 22 cal. They work at 10 feet or less out of revolvers with 4 inch or less. I once shot a copperhead with a 38 snubby and a #9 shot capsule. It worked. I have tested the #12 22lr loads agianst 1/8 hardwood panelling. At 10 feet it goes through the paneling and has a uniform pattern out of my S&W 4" Kitgun about the size of a dinner plate. I consider 10 feet max range which is fine for me. I have thought of useing 410 ga shot cups in a 45 colt.

[Green Frog]

+1 on Travelor's recommendation for #12 shot. I have found that larger shot (yes, even #9) has less ability to penetrate a snake's skin. That is not the case with #12, it just zips right in and snakes go instantly still.

You might consider buying a 10 pound bag from Ballistic Products (believe this is the smallest bag they offer). Keep 2 pounds for yourself as it will keep you supplied for ever. Then offer the remaining shot in 1 pound bags on the S&S board, expect you will get more hits than you can supply.

Thin Man

... and if anyone does this, I would be very interested in buying a pound or two. Failing in that would anyone be interested in buying a few pounds from me if I do a "group buy?"

Froggie

[victorfox]

I've had good results with #9 shot in both 44 special and 44 mag on paper plates, clay pigeons and pop cans out to 10 feet or so. Surprisingly my 2-1/2" Bulldog patterns better than my 4" 629.

Duster the reason is that less bbl length give less spin to the shot charge than the longer barrel. The more the bullet spins the better for stabilization, the more the shot charge spins the worse for patterns. If both guns were smoothbore the longer barrel would give better patterns, probably.

[runfiverun]

if you don't find data.
the way I worked it was to fill the capsule with shot and weigh it.
use boolit weight similar.
and use it's data.
subtract for the lower case volume to get your starting load.
after I done it this way I found I was really close to the data I did have but didn't find until afterwards

[victorfox]

SnowWolf you should be fine at the 4-6 gr range of W231, Bullseye and likewise fast powders. The capsules get max if I recall my reading about 150-160gr for both calibers.

[snowwolfe]

The capsules came in. Will try and load up some with the #8 shot I have. Funny thing about snakes. Yesterday we were flipping over a small boat that was laying on the shore of our lake. Wife said "Oh look at the pretty turtle with the nice orange and black pattern". She reached down to move it and I said just wait. After we flipped the boat the turtle uncoiled and swam into the water, lol.
Thought my wife was going to pee her pants.

[daniel lawecki]

This reloading data is out of Speer Manual ten 44 Magnum #7 1/2 8 or 9 shot 6" barrel.
630 13.0 1054 fps
231 7.3 1133 fps
Unique 6.8 1097 fps
Bullseye 6.0 1101 fps
HP 38 6.0 1061 fps
700X 5.7 1105 fps
Your pattern will equal 1" per foot so 20' = 20'' pattern.
This data is on page 403 of Speer loading manual.
I have Data for .38 - .357 and .44 special.
I hope this helps as I have used the data in my .44 mag with 10 1/2 super Blackhawk.

[35 Whelen]

In the last 10 years, I reckon I've killed more rattlesnakes than most folks will see in their lives. The ONLY ones I've lost and almost lost were when I was shooting #12 shot out of a 22 LR. I learned real quick that I needed to be uncomfortably close with those loads. But, that's just my experience.

I began carrying a 3" .38 with me everywhere I went and kept one chamber loaded with shot shell handloads. Normally I rob #9's out of my .410 skeet loads, but I also used #8 and occasionally even 7 1/2's. Never made one bit of difference and I never lost a snake. I now carry a 4 3/4" SA .44 Special load with #9 shot capsules and haven't had one so much as quiver after being shot.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Snakes/P1010026-1_zpse36e52b7.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Snakes/P1010026-1_zpse36e52b7.jpg.html)

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Snakes/P1010022_zps1251b914.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Snakes/P1010022_zps1251b914.jpg.html)

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Snakes/Rattler_zpsb6240775.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Snakes/Rattler_zpsb6240775.jpg.html)

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Snakes/Rattlesnakes1.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Snakes/Rattlesnakes1.jpg.html)

A momma, 17 babies and a 9-shot 22 revolver. Had to "whomp" most of these!

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Snakes/Rattlesnakes6.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Snakes/Rattlesnakes6.jpg.html)

I ran across this one on one of my walks about a mile and a half from the house. If you look close, something had bit most of his rattles off. I think this is the only one I've ever let go!

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Snakes/Rattler-1_zps760d953c.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Snakes/Rattler-1_zps760d953c.jpg.html)

Proof that a .38 loaded with 9's works fine:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHh2JUGVHk4

35W

[madman]

Been staging #1buck down in home made sizer die 10 gr unique they are great from 10 yards, 18 in a cylinder full does a job on paper plates.

[mac60]

In the last 10 years, I reckon I've killed more rattlesnakes than most folks will see in their lives. The ONLY ones I've lost and almost lost were when I was shooting #12 shot out of a 22 LR. I learned real quick that I needed to be uncomfortably close with those loads. But, that's just my experience.

I began carrying a 3" .38 with me everywhere I went and kept one chamber loaded with shot shell handloads. Normally I rob #9's out of my .410 skeet loads, but I also used #8 and occasionally even 7 1/2's. Never made one bit of difference and I never lost a snake. I now carry a 4 3/4" SA .44 Special load with #9 shot capsules and haven't had one so much as quiver after being shot.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Snakes/P1010026-1_zpse36e52b7.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Snakes/P1010026-1_zpse36e52b7.jpg.html)

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Snakes/P1010022_zps1251b914.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Snakes/P1010022_zps1251b914.jpg.html)

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Snakes/Rattler_zpsb6240775.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Snakes/Rattler_zpsb6240775.jpg.html)

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Snakes/Rattlesnakes1.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Snakes/Rattlesnakes1.jpg.html)

A momma, 17 babies and a 9-shot 22 revolver. Had to "whomp" most of these!

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Snakes/Rattlesnakes6.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Snakes/Rattlesnakes6.jpg.html)

I ran across this one on one of my walks about a mile and a half from the house. If you look close, something had bit most of his rattles off. I think this is the only one I've ever let go!

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Snakes/Rattler-1_zps760d953c.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Snakes/Rattler-1_zps760d953c.jpg.html)

Proof that a .38 loaded with 9's works fine:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHh2JUGVHk4

35W

35W - To me that's proof. Proof is the bottom line buddy. Question: Speer is now loading .38/.357 shotshells with #4 shot. They are calling them "big four" I believe. What do you think of the concept?

[35 Whelen]

35W - To me that's proof. Proof is the bottom line buddy. Question: Speer is now loading .38/.357 shotshells with #4 shot. They are calling them "big four" I believe. What do you think of the concept?

I don't know about that. CCI says they're effective out to 15', but that seems a long ways off to be shooting at snakes. And if it were a larger creature, I reckon I'd just thumb the hammer to the next chamber and use a bullet.

35

[victorfox]

I shot a few #4 loads in my smoothbore judge and was not very impressed at 10yds. I threw away the target without pics... In any case, I switched to #6, 7 and 7 1/2. I know the distances are useless to snake shooting, but my gun usually simply blows a hole at a smaller distance.

[mac60]

Lord knows, I don't use many of 'em. I've killed 3 snakes in my lifetime with shot loads out of revolvers. I load a mix of #8 and #9.

[RugerFan]

Here's the data right out of the box:

https://i.postimg.cc/3JXxNSbR/SS-data.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[Drm50]

I use the Speer shot caps. 357 & 44mg. Instead of using shot I use solder. I use the fine type
used in circuit boards. Straighten out between your fingers and cut to length of capsule. Stack
the solder in tube, like pencil leads are packaged. I have found it much more effective on snake
kills than 71/2 or 8 shot. I have experimented with the bigger dia.- but like shot the smaller stuff
patterns better.

[Combat Diver]

I use the Speer .38 and .44 cal shot capsules. In .44 SPL I like to use #6 or #9 shot under a load of Unique. Carry two in the cylinder of my 3" CA Bulldog with roaming the swamps. My EDC gun is a Smith 442 with I also have some .38 shot capsules made up with #9 shot/Unique. However for squirrel hunting I use my TC Contender with in .357 Mag with a 10" Hot Shot barrel. It has a removable choke that stops the spin (from the rifle bore) and I can keep a Speer shot capsule within 6" at 15 yards!

Equipment
http://i48.servimg.com/u/f48/16/48/54/01/pb260211.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/view/16485401/794)
Might have some .357 cases in that box too. Need to make up some .41 Mag shotshells some day for my Smith 58
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/Contender.jpeg

Results
http://i48.servimg.com/u/f48/16/48/54/01/pb260210.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/view/16485401/793)

CD

[Blanket]

I use brass nails stacked into speer caps

[mac60]

I use brass nails stacked into speer caps

That's just mean!

[trapper9260]

What do you all use to hold the capsules in place. I use Super glue and it dose not hold long.Because of the recoil of the gun.I shot them in my 357 BH.

[BNE]

I made some 38 shot shells using 3.5 Grains of Clays with ~80 grains of #7.5 shot for my Dad. He recently took out a squirrel that was raiding the bird feeder. I walked it off and the shot was at 15 feet. (I typically use #9, but Dad requested something for squirrels. I will try #12 someday.)

There is a great write up on this sight somewhere that tells you how to make shot cartridges using thick card stock as the wad and then to cover the top of the cartridge. I have used this method with both 44 and 38 shot shells. You can fit almost as much weight in the brass as the Speer cases. A lot easier and cheaper also.

[Leadmelter]

I am glad those don't live around me here in the Great Mitten!
Lead Melter
MI

[huntinmo]

Using the 44 capsules for my CA Bulldog, with #9 shot and the data included with the capsules. I am not getting what I consider very good patterns at 15 feet so will try backing off the power charge a bit to see if that improves the pattern. Wish I had some smaller shot size, but that stuff is way out of my price range for a few loads! :shock:

[35 Whelen]

If you're loading shot capsules for snakes, there's really no need to worry about their performance at 15'. Any snake that far away is of no threat whatsoever. Try at realistic range of 5-7' and I think you be surprised at how effective patterns are.

35W

[huntinmo]

Yes, 5-7' for snakes, probably will not be useful for anything else. I guess the 15' was just listening to the exagerated advertising! :oops:

[Larry in MT]

My 44 Speer Shot Capsule load is 7.5 grains of Power Pistol and 7 1/2 shot. I wouldn't argue with anyone who uses smaller (or larger) shot, but this load is very effective on our Prairie Rattlesnakes --- I've killed a bunch of them. If a snake is trying to escape in tall grass, I like the larger shot for better penetration. I also like the 38 special capsules, which I usually load with # 8 for some reason. Also, very effective.

I once killed 24 Prairie Rattlers in a couple hours with a 4" Kit Gun and the old WW shot shells with 25 grains of shot. Worked fine.

I've also killed a bunch with a Ruger 22 Mag using CCI shot shells. The mags used to have 53 grains of #11 shot, now they use #12. Again, all these loads kill our size of Rattlers @ 6-8 feet.

You have a crimp these pretty well or they will back out and tie up the cylinder. I've never crimped one so hard that I broke it.

[besk]

I use #10 shot with Speer Capsules in a 38 sp. S&W 4" barrel pistol and also 410 pistol loads. So far neither moccasin or rattler has so much as twitched after being shot at 6 to 8 ft. for the four I have shot so far.

I agree, it is amazing how the 38/357 shotshells perform in the 357 Contender with the choke. Actually the groups are almost too tight at close range.

[sniper]

... and if anyone does this, I would be very interested in buying a pound or two. Failing in that would anyone be interested in buying a few pounds from me if I do a "group buy?"Froggie


YES, please!

[Seeker]

This data sheet comes in every box of capsules I've ever purchased. I back the charges off a grn. or so and find that I get a tighter shot pattern. Dispatched a lot of snakes, voles and chipmunks with my .45 Colt. Even a few red squirrels.

184277

[S.B.]

Where is #12 shot sold with cheap shipping if I have to buy 25 pounds of this stuff? I haven't been able to find it locally.
Steve

[35 Whelen]

IMHO, #12 is all but pointless in large cartridges from .38 Special on up. I use mostly #9 which I rob from shotgun shells. Buy a box of cheap 12 ga. #9 shot and you'll have enough for a long, long time.

35W

[triggerhappy243]

Just got a sack of #9 just for this purpose,. Would sell @ $4.00/pound + shipping

[BCB]

I bought a 5-pounds of # 12 probably 15 years ago, and I still have ½ of it. I think I do prefer # 9, but I have connected with # 12 at ranges up to 10 feet. I think that is the effective range of these shot shells no matter what size of shot is used. I shoot them in 38 Special, 357 Magnum, 44 Magnum and 45 Colt. But, I probably don’t shoot a dozen a year anymore…

Some years back, I loaded some # 6 copper in a 45 capsule and was shooting it from a Blackhawk. On a calm day when there was a fresh snow and rabbit tracks could be seen, I have walked slowly where there were plenty of rabbit tracks and would find one sitting. I stayed at the 10-feet or less shots. Number 6 copper (I added some Grex buffer and tapped it into the voids, but it probably didn't do any good at all) was quite effective on rabbits—thin skin and pretty easily killed…

Good-luck…BCB

[dustydog]

I bought a box of the 2-2-10# card shooter shot shells and cut them open and use that .seems to patern well